Why do you want to Multi-class?

[Talon_Moonshadow]

This is an important question you need to ask yourself before multi-classing your char IMO.

Too many people seem to want to do it for the wrong reasons.

Which really comes down to not knowing what kind of char they want to play in DDO.

Why do you want to do traps and locks?
This is most common multi-class idea....adding a lvl of Rog to do traps and locks.

I understand this all too well. My First char started as a Rgr, then I added Rog lvls, because I wanted to do traps and locks.
Then I added a Wiz lvl because I thought it would be cool to use wands.

In the end my char worked out well.......but it had nothing to do with my original reasons for wanting to multi-class.

I currently like my Rog lvls because of the SA damage. Not the trap skills.
Doing traps are boring!
And right after I reached lvl 20 and redid my enhancments for more damage and less traps........turbine gave us new traps that I will never be able to get!

So my original reason for Rogue lvls was more of a fad....whose day of fun is long come and gone. Yet my char and my choices remain.

Same with the Wiz lvls.
Offensive wands were a big disapointment. Back pack space to carry them even more disappointing.

Then we got the Knock spell.......how cool is that for a Rogue!
And Invisibility!

So I took more Wiz lvls.

And knock sucked!
And at the time Invisibility and stealth sucked! (it has snce been changed, and I have since been educated in its use)

So as you can see, I like many other noobs, chose to multi-class my char on a whim. And thought I was going to be gaining something I wanted.

When is essense, I did not really know what I wanted. Or what exactly I was going to get.

then I saw my firend's pure Rgr! Wow Brinks could kick butt! Yet I was very far behind in kills.

Now I regretted not staying pure. And he was gaining abilities that I could never gain.

So my next batch of chars were mostly pure class chars. And the pure class chars, I have never regretted staying pure!

I have since than made more multi-classed builds.
Some seem pure genious if they were to get capped. But capping them is a long difficult, gimped road........especially if their effectiveness is in question.

I also recently made clones of my original build. Because in the end, he was a good build. But starting over and doing things like taking Rog at lvl 1, could make him better.

But I'm already seeing things about him that I had forgotten. Mostly that at certain lvls, he is kinda gimped. And deciding exactly how to lvl up a multi-classed build and stay effective at all lvls is very difficult.

Anyway, I didn't mean to talk so much about my own decisions, just use them as an example.

The point is, you gain and lose many things by multi-classing a char.
And in some casses will not have the right stats to gain much from multi-classing in a certain class.

if you just started this game, you should really, really, really think hard before choosing to multi-class. Educate your self, and understand exactly what you will gain and lose.

But most importantly, it to understand what you want to play.
or how do you like to play? What type of char is for you?

if you really want to do traps, why not play a Rogue?
Rgr/Rog is good. Wiz/Rogue is good.

but why are you choosing them instead of just playing a Rogue?

You want to fight and cast spells....cool. But do you realise that a high lvl caster seldom has to fight at all. And that his martial abilities are severaly inferior to his spell casting?

So again, what kind of char do you really want to play?

DDO is different from PnP D&D.
Multi-classing is weaker because of the power of enhancments in DDO.
And the lack of prestige classes to combine spells casting classes and keep them powerful.

I really feel that too many chars are multiclassing as a fad.
because they saw someone else do something they couldn't, and they thought it would be cool to do that.

this game offers a lot of flexibility to make some cool chars.
But few are really superior to a pure class build.

In fact, the paths they give us during char creation are not bad at all.
No, they are not the way to be uber. But I doubt anyone playing this game less than a year, will actually make a beter build on their own.

You have slots to create additional chars.

Make a second, or a third. Try out different things.
Delete what you don't like.

Reroll! lvl 4-6 is easy to get. Rerolling if you are sure you don't like something is easy at low lvls. But making a second char is really what I recommend.

I just think that you need time in the game, to really understand what niche you like to play. What kind of char and abilities you really want. And how you like to play in game.

So it's very important IMO to ask yourself:

Why do you want to multi-class?

[Aesop]

DDO is different from PnP D&D.
Multi-classing is weaker because of the power of enhancments in DDO.
And the lack of prestige classes to combine spells casting classes and keep them powerful.

Why do you want to multi-class?

Now there is the problem. We have lost so much flexibility of characters by the up powering of Pure Class to the exclusion of the Multi Class.

The Form that PrCs have taken have inherantly weakend the ability to MC

The outrageous Capstone Enhancements have done similar

I love DnD precisely because I am not limited in how to build characters. If I want to make a 3 Rogue 11 Monk 6 paladin ... then why the hell should it be inherantly weaker than a Pure Class Monk... Both characters have levels to 20 and that is syupposed to be the measure of a characters power not achieving level 20 in a single class.

Why do I Multi Class... easy because its far more interesting then going along with a single class cookie cutter build.

Make no mistake that is what Pure Class is soon all fighter will be 20th level Khopesh using TWF all with the same Feats or 20th level with Epic SoS... at that point we may as well go play WoW because we will have lost all diversity and creativity

Aesop

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

[sigtrent]

It is a good idea to know why you are multi-classing so the OPs main point is a very good one.

As to weakening or gimping characters... well it all depends on what you want of course. If you are multi classing because you want to be a better fighter than a fighter is... well that might be hard to pull off. If you are doing it because you want to be a fighter that also does X and don't mind being slightly less good at fighting to do it, then it will likely work out well for you.

The think with D&D and DDO is you don't need to be better than everyone else, only good enough to complete the challenges you choose to face.

[Aesop]

Definately though... think about why and how you are multiclassing.

I just don't like some of the decisions made in regard to down powering Multi Classing to promote Pure Class characters.

Aesop

[gavagai]

Why do you want to multi-class?

Bard so I can wear armor and cast!
Sorc for the Double SP!
Rogue so I can open all the chests and doors!
Fighter because I just want more damage and more feats!
Cleric so I can always heal myself!
Ranger so I can TWF/attack with a bow!

In all seriousness, I think many desires to multiclass arise from bad information about how game mechanics work (Sorcs and SP, how healing and spell level scale, how trap skill ranks and levels scale) or lack of clarity about what "benefits" are clearly not WAI (Batman evasion before, now GS ellie summons, and soon the Bard ASF issue).

I also think there is a difference between players who have a strong inclination to role play ("I began as a peasant trained in brawling, then after arriving in Korthos began to dedicate myself to healing others of the injuries I used to love inflicting...") and those who enjoy the challenge of gaming the rules system for more net benefits ("Only gimpz take Ranger to 20; you could have everything and more with SA, UMD, and INTIM!").

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the latter; the 3.5 rules for flexible multiclassing are great for allowing creativity, but I think it puts too much emphasis on cost/benefit analysis and too little on characterization.

From that standpoint, I like that enhancements reward staying pure; for otherwise pure characters would get endless grief for sticking to their vision.

But: Enhancements could be better balanced so that there were more viable choices. Tier I PrEs shouldn't be limited to Tempest. I hate knowing that most 12/6/2 MCs will have to work hard justifying not going ranger.

But to the OP: Why do I multiclass? To surprise myself and see the content/stories play out from completely different perspectives.

[Calebro]

Why do you want to multi-class?

Because I like trying new and interesting things.
I like having to adjust my play for the situation rather than just bashing things or spamming spells and running around in circles.
I like the fact that dungeons that I've entered many times with many toons feel new again because new tactics are needed.

But mostly I just like carrying peoples' stones around for a while if/when they start giving me flack about my builds.

[Anderei]

Especially Gandalf, I have to see him to use a different spell than "light" at least in the movie, don't remeber casting him anything in the book either.

[UnderwearModel]

I have been in too many groups where the rogue can't rogue.

I have been in quite a few groups where the tanks can't tank. Ever been in the Reaver and asked whop would tank and not one tank steps up? My cleric or my bard or my multi class steps up every time.

I play so I can entertain myself. I am not a POWER gamer. My goal is NOT to be the ultimate, just the guy that can cover a lot of bases and when mistakes happen hopefully recover the party.

[Anderei]

The best multiclass I ever have really seen was 6 cleric/3 fvs, I would really want to know what the guy/gal tought behind that, but didn't want to vituperate.

[Anderei]

I have been in too many groups where the rogue can't rogue.

I have been in quite a few groups where the tanks can't tank. Ever been in the Reaver and asked whop would tank and not one tank steps up? My cleric or my bard or my multi class steps up every time.

I play so I can entertain myself. I am not a POWER gamer. My goal is NOT to be the ultimate, just the guy that can cover a lot of bases and when mistakes happen hopefully recover the party.

Some builds are designed to do something well thats not an easy guessed by the dominant class. However in that case you really should tell your party before hand.

[Calebro]

.... didn't want to vituperate.

Huh?!?

[vVAnjilaVv]

With the addition of PrE's, all mobs in Shavarath having static GH, and epic content.....I will no longer even attempt to multi-class.

IMO, I don't think there is enough flexibility in current end game content to not have everything a pure class obtains.

When the Vale was end game, and the level cap was 16....I think it was viable to MC......but nowadays......I think it's a waste.

I'm already looking at lesser +3 reincarnating all of my multi-classes and respeccing a couple of my casters so they have both spell focus and greater spell focus for thier main spell school.

[Anderei]

Huh?!?

animadvert

[Anderei]

With the addition of PrE's, all mobs in Shavarath having static GH, and epic content.....I will no longer even attempt to multi-class.

IMO, I don't think there is enough flexibility in current end game content to not have everything a pure class obtains.

When the Vale was end game, and the level cap was 16....I think it was viable to MC......but nowadays......I think it's a waste.

I'm already looking at lesser +3 reincarnating all of my multi-classes and respeccing a couple of my casters so they have both spell focus and greater spell focus for thier main spell school.

I think there are some fine melee multiclasses.

12 something (PrE 2) / 6 something else (PrE 1) / 2 (some class bonuses) something other is a often seen, often valiable build.

[vVAnjilaVv]

I think there are some fine melee multiclasses.

12 something (PrE 2) / 6 something else (PrE 1) / 2 (some class bonuses) something other is a often seen, often valiable build.

Actually, I meant to mention that. I agree that melees can still be effective......it's about the only type of build tho, and maybe a non dc caster.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I meant this more for new players...

You guys seemed to have misunderstood.

I don't slam multi-classing.

Some of my best toon are multi-classed!

But the forums are full of new players asking if they should take a lvl of this or that.

And equally full of people saying you just gimped your build, reroll.

So it seems to me people should think twice before doing it.

And good or bad, turbine has nerfed multi-classed builds.

I left off a lot of the ways mine was nerfed over the years.

I want people to enjoy this game. (new players)
Not get all frustrated because they made a fatal gimp mistake and quit because they didn't get what they thought they were getting.

I don't want to limit multi-classing, I just want people to carefully consider their reasons.

And truthfully, it is not necessary to do it. The pures are fine. The paths are fine too (or at least ok)

Myddo.com says i have like 50 chars....and that doesn't count my second acount.
or the dozen or so, I've deleted.

I've done a lot of experimenting with builds.

and I love some radical multi-classed builds. And plan to lvl up quite a few of them.

But what I see in the forum posts, is people going for something they thought looked neat, without understanding it. or thinking pure is gimped. Or just not really knowing what kind of char they want to play.

it took me three years to really understand what I like.

and ironically it was very close to my original build.
Just not for the original reasons, and after adjusting for various nerfs.

he's still my favorite char to play. I'm not knocking MCing at all.

I just don't think you should do it on a whim.

[Valakai]

Lets turn it around.

Why do you want to stay pure?

I'm not saying pure is not good. Pure is vanilla and you cant go wrong with that. Its easy to make and play without even understanding the rules too much. The PRCs and CAPSTONEs and enhancements make the pure builds more balanced.

Its easy to totally gimp your character by multiclassing and not carefully thinking about it. But then again which do you consider better pure ranger or rog1/monk1/rng18 build. I would pick the latter any day.

For those who dont want to plan ahead or dont know the rules too well staying pure is very much a smart thing to do. Multiclassing is sacrificing something to get something else. Just good to know what you are losing and what you are gaining and is it worth to you.

After playing a lot of PnP D&D I noticed that the multiclass comboes were almost always more powerfull then the pure characters. Especially if you could freely mix in the prestige classes so in my opionion the enhancements, capstone and PCRs are ways of making the pures more balanced with a carefully thought of multiclasses.

[vVAnjilaVv]

Actually I have made a few MC's, and they were all quite succesful, well thought out, and planned.....as I do with all of my characters.

My arguement was that with the introduction of capstones, PrE's and content like Shavarath and Epic scaling.......I just believe having every little thing ur primary class gains throughout all 20 levels is much more desirable. This is just my opinion and how I feel on things. I am sure many MC's will do fine......I just do not like all the situational and gear itensive aspect of MC'ing anymore.

Like I said.....when Vale was the end game...I loved the prospect of many MC's I had planned out....now tho, it doesn't appeal to me at all....aside from melee builds.

[Kriogen]

I multiclass because I can.

And if I fail with MC build? Whats the difference between grinding 1-20 levels or grinding Shroud? And on top of that, there is reincarnate/respec.