Not A good idea to Lesser Rez!

[piggiecrdf2]

To many people are looking at this from the perspective of "right and wrong" or "lack of personal responsibility" IMO. I think the correct perspective should be; how much effort would a back or restart button take to implement and is it worth that much effort to keep customers happy. It really doesn't matter who is right or wrong or who may lack personal responsibility as this isn't a test of one's character, it's a business and what keeps the customer happy and paying is the only real issue here.

Turbine should IMHO put in an option at the end of the process "something went wrong, lets restart pls" or "fine I'm going with this".
Shouldn't be so hard to code I think and would be fair enough.

Of course you should pay attention and not do errors, but that one might be done a little more forgiveable, don't see what is gained by taken this possibility.

Can you people really read the thread and replies before you post? The OP is DEMANDING a reset AFTER the character is created, aka the WHOLE process is FINISHED! As I've said on my previous reply, this would only start on more demands to "please" the careless (or whatever adjective you want to insert here) players if they don't learn to pay a price for what they've done.

So next thing will be a button to reset your character lv by 1 after you finished leveling; then next will be resetting as many levels as you want with 1 easy button too. Wow, don't even need lesser incarnation anymore now. What's coming up next? Demanding for a button that can roll your character back 10mins, so you don't die and fail the raid, just because turbine can do it and it'll please a lot people. What's next? 1 click button and you're lv20, because you'll be even happier with it?

There's no limit to please people, as we always want more, that's why rules and regulations are set. Sure some adjustments should be made along the road but not for this case, after given numeral warning when he's incarnating the toon and he had enough chances to fix his problem.

There's 1 thing I do agree is, to add a restart-all button right before the whole process is finished, right before completing the lv20 (or whatever lv you're currently at) points distribution. Sorry he's just gotta suck it up for his case either way.

[Sithias]

I'm strangely reminded of a certain thread about The Tear of Dhakaan....Easy Button needed.....Blame Turbine!

But seriously, I've only leveled one character to level 20 and I TR'd him before update 3. Now, in the time leading up to my reincarnation, I created not one, not two, but THREE play-testing monks, plus viewed the builds on the forums, just to get the feel for the class. I am by no means new to playing monks, but PNP 1st and 2nd Edition is much different that DDO/3rd Edition, which I had never played. I settled on the Rockan Robin build, TR'd, followed the stat, feat, etc. allocations almost to a "T", (made some personal changes to suit me).

So, if after doing all of that, all the research, testing builds, etc., if I had screwed up, would I have myself or Turbine to blame? I am gonna say, "Myself".

Reading comprehension and paying attention in DDO is more intense than in any other MMO I've played as far as creating a character. So, I say wait a week, the system is working as intended. 18 Intelligence on a cleric warms my heart....as much as a Barbarian with 18 Charisma...

[rage9]

Because most programmers realise that people make mistakes and design the UI to allow users to correct those mistakes (even if that requires them to re-start the entire process again).

Good to see you decided to empathize with the OP, rather than take cheap shots, and did not rub his nose in a mistake he obviously wishes he had not made (as it cost him at least 900TPs and a week).

Hey, I said sorry, I felt his pain. Even gave him a positive outlook on the subject. He WILL have alot of skill points now!!!!!

For that I get neg rep?

[WillStone]

Sorry man, while I sympathise with you that an error occured, the reality it that you did it to yourself. Stand up, live tall, accept a blunder, learn from it and move on. It is a growing process....so is life. One week is a very short time, roll a new character and wait it out. Make it a positive note rather than being salty and not realiizing your problem solving to a GAME. Its your choice...

[TechNoFear]

That's why products have to have stupid, obvious warnings all over them (McDonald's coffee anyone?).

Big companies want a limit to the amount of compensation you can claim if they hurt/kill you. They use this case to support that limit.

I suggest you read the actual case of Stella Liebeck (and others also scalded by McDonalds coffee).

I have spilt coffee on myself but never required skin grafts and 2 months in hospital to recover (as Liebeck did).


@rage9
Next you will be correcting me for using 'colour', not understanding it is a correct spelling in many parts of the world...

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/empathise

[Sweetsoul86]

I'm sorry but true, lesser, lesser +1 and lesser +3 are all the "reset" buttons turbine should have to give us. Look back to the past 4 years, when has it ever been so easy to correct our mistakes? I true reincarnated my original toon from nearly 2 years ago, a cleric and brought her back as a better cleric. When I did the tr I had a "special" moment and gave her more int than I really should have because I like skill points and have an unnatural obsession with them so by level 10 my friends and bf were making fun of me for having such a high int on my cleric and I did a lesser reincarnate, took my sweet time and now she's better than ever. I did not complain to turbine because I screwed up my tr because it was MY fault, MY mistake and MY own stupidity that screwed up my character. So what if it costs you a week and $9 US? Isn't that much better than having no options at all where all you can do is live with it or re-roll the toon? I don't see any legitimate reason for turbine to sacrifice money in their pockets because you couldn't tell the difference between INT and WIS, you should have taken more time and been more careful, I cannot empathize with your want for a free handout, I can however sympathize about making mistakes on ones cleric and like others have said you should simply learn your lesson and be more careful next time around.

[dj.kickz]

Good to see you decided to empathise with the OP, rather than take cheap shots, and did not rub his nose in a mistake he obviously wishes he had not made (as it cost him at least 900TPs and a week).

working as intended, its called the idiot tax.

[Gremmlynn]

I did not complain to turbine because I screwed up my tr because it was MY fault, MY mistake and MY own stupidity that screwed up my character. So what if it costs you a week and $9 US? Isn't that much better than having no options at all where all you can do is live with it or re-roll the toon? I don't see any legitimate reason for turbine to sacrifice money in their pockets because you couldn't tell the difference between INT and WIS, you should have taken more time and been more careful, I cannot empathize with your want for a free handout, I can however sympathize about making mistakes on ones cleric and like others have said you should simply learn your lesson and be more careful next time around.

It's not about who's right, who's responsible or who screwed up. It's about whether Turbine feels the chance of getting another $9 out of this customer is worth the risk of losing all future income from them, or if the cost of having CS reps fix customer mistakes is worth what future income that service will provide.

As to those who keep asking where will this end. Last MMO I played let one respec everything but race, class and profession for in-game gold and every change made to the system just made it cheaper and easier. Not because the devs thought players should be less aware of character choices. But because the customers overwhelmingly liked it that way and the company felt customer satisfaction was worth more than whatever advantages they would get out of not having the system in place. Personally I'd rather have satisfied customers, than customers I've given lessons in personal responsibility to.

[Giiros]

Lmfao, that is priceless!

[Mentor61]

And why should they help you fix it?
This is not the type of game where you can make a mistake and then whine to a dev simply because YOU made a mistake.

Welcome to *A*DD, oh no I made a mistake:P

Hurtzz

Fixed.

[BangsLiekWhoa]

Yay. Another person wanting to blame someone else for their mistakes. Its not like Turbine has warnings everywhere saying reincarnation changes cannot be undone... oh wait, they do?! Imagine my surprise.

[Rabbi_Hordo]

Big companies want a limit to the amount of compensation you can claim if they hurt/kill you. They use this case to support that limit.

I suggest you read the actual case of Stella Liebeck (and others also scalded by McDonalds coffee).

I have spilt coffee on myself but never required skin grafts and 2 months in hospital to recover (as Liebeck did).


@rage9
Next you will be correcting me for using 'colour', not understanding it is a correct spelling in many parts of the world...

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/empathise

I also pre-suppose you've never put fresh coffee between your legs, in your groin area, and then attempted to drive over speed-bumps either. Of course, Law Schools love this case as a prime example of the failure of common sense in a courtroom permitting any sort of ridiculousness to become an "earner" for you and your client.

But back on topic, and I know this example was thrust upon you in a very non sequitur fashion, it has little or nothing to do with this particular example. Let us not forget the LR/GR/TR process is a result of 3+ years of the DDO community asking for a way to respec our toons. The process that we are given is not perfect, but it is very much in keeping with D&D both PnP and DDO in that once a step has been made you cannot go back without it being a second motion (the next turn as it were). Luckily, they did provide ample second, third and in some levels fourth chances to review the details of the respec and to go back (albeit within that level only) and correct a problem.

The OP had a problem that was initiated by an improper input of STAT points into INT instead of WIS at first level. This gave the OP 4 chances at that level to notice the error and go back and correct it before committing to a path, if you will, for his toon. It is a shame that the OP failed to notice the error until much later in the respec, and I think we would all be very upset had we erred that badly, but it is still the OP's responsibility to spec his toon properly and not Turbine's. Thus the OP's appeal to Turbine to allow him to respec his respec because of an error discovered at a later time is absurd. Turbine did, in fact, respond to the community's outcry for a respec and gave us LR/GR/TR and if we make a mistake we simply wait a week and spend X# Turbine Points to correct it rather than the old method of deletion and re-rolling from scratch.

Does this, then, preclude the inclusion of an "oops" button at the end of the process? No. But that would certainly fly in the face of the history and concept of the role-playing game we know and love as D&D. If we make a mistake in a PnP game, the DM makes us pay for it in some fashion, and we have to go through various and sundry quests or trials to achieve what we are seeking as a correction (at least that was the suggestion from Chainmail to 3.5, haven't read all of the 4.0 DMs Guide yet), and in DDO we have our own method of corrctive questing...getting the "level" Druidic Heart of Wood either via Turbine Points or turn-ins of epic tokens or the Egg hunt and talking to Krug in House Jorasco.

The bottom line is that Turbine has caved in far too often and gone way to far in offering an easy button to this game and there comes a time when the player must finally say "my bad" and set about fixing a simple problem using the simple in-game tools alerady in place.

[die]

uhm........not a good idea to lesser res when ur stoned I would say is a more appropriate statement. Failing to see why you think this is anyone elses fault but your own?
Sorry dude, that sucks but think of all the skill points ya got now lmfao

lmao..

[Yazston_the_Invoker]

I fail to see why this engenders so much angst from you people.

This is a trivial to implement improvement to the UI, that would save much frustration in the future.

Why is shouted down on the premise that people should be more careful or do you think you contibution to the thread was helpful, informative or justified (rather than insulting and immature)?



Ever done a reincarnation of a high level character? (I have done 3)

In an up to 20 level process you can only reset during the 1st level.

Any error made/discovered during the other (up to) 19 levels require at least US$9 and 1 week to fix.

Your examples are non sequitur.

First off, not everyone is being insulting and immature, but for the ones who are, you must realize that unfortunately, that is the type of response that anonymous forum use engenders, and most likely always will...no accountability and all. Best idea in most cases are to try to ignore the immature ones or take them with a grain of salt. (some are quite funny as long as you realize that bluster on a forum means nothing.)

Secondly, I think the idea most are trying to make is that there is a fine line between taking responsibility for one's own actions and blaming one's problems on someone else. At some point, people DO need to learn from their mistakes and learn to be more accountable, rather than simply demanding another way out. I feel bad for the OP, I really do, but something like this will remind him in the future to double check, which is something many of us figured out a long time ago...and not just in this situation.

I work tech support all day long, often dealing with programs with bad code, and in most cases, I take time to point out to users how to avoid this kind of problem in the future, while doing my best to fix their current issue. This is not a skill issue, this is a simple "pay attention and make sure you are doing it right" issue. I would applaud Turbine if they come up with a way to fix mistakes like this in the future, but for now, I would hope that the OP takes this as a learning experience instead of blamin someone else for his troubles.

[systemstate]

Wow, you guys really gave the OP a beating on this one. I see that he was annoyed about the situation as well, but it seems to me that he was making sure everyone else was aware this could happen to them as well if they didn't pay attention during lesser reincarnation.

More like, "Hey- everyone make sure you don't do what I did or your screwed for a week."

[rimble]

Just went through my first LR +3. Of course I was on high alert after reading several threads regarding problems, so I did read everything very carefully. I also had a detailed plan to follow. I can't fathom being so careless as to max your Int instead of your Wis, that's just crazy, but it is what it is.

I do think it all worked fine, I only had one stupid problem that prompts me to bring up a stupid possible change: it might be nice to have a bank on the airship. Yes, I know, that sounds stupid. I was remaking my character with 16 Dex, and when I went to take ITWF realized I had forgotten to eat a +1 Dex tome! So when rebuilding I took a temporary Feat in its place, and then visited Fred to fix it after I LR'd (and had read a tome)...but it would have been very very nice to be able to grab the tome with another character, drop it in the shared bank, and have my character on the boat be able to retrieve and read it. I accept full responsibility for this blunder.

I must admit, though, knowing that there is absolutely no room for error made it a pretty nerve-wracking experience.

To address possible mistakes, I wonder if after you LR they could give you another LR token of the same type (+1, +2, or +3) that is BtC and maybe disappears after 6 hours or so, maybe less. That way you could go do it again if you really screwed up. Maybe even give you a couple hours to try out a new spec if you want--not sure if such a 'test-drive' function is something Turbine is interested in providing, but it sounds neat to me.

[Yazston_the_Invoker]

To many people are looking at this from the perspective of "right and wrong" or "lack of personal responsibility" IMO. I think the correct perspective should be; how much effort would a back or restart button take to implement and is it worth that much effort to keep customers happy. It really doesn't matter who is right or wrong or who may lack personal responsibility as this isn't a test of one's character, it's a business and what keeps the customer happy and paying is the only real issue here.

Not for nothing, but if they took the stance of "The Customer is Always Right", as you say here, then we'll end up with a game that changes from one hour to the next. There are so many differing opinions on what each person wants that one day we'd be playing a super challenging game where only casters are allowed, then the next we'd be playing a game where everything is super easy, and people can make Dragon characters. Keeping the customer happy in any situation is an exercise in mediation and compromise.

In this case, the code may or may not be difficult, but in the end it may come out to be a problem of how to police the reset and keep people from exploiting it. What would the timer be on the reset? 1 minute? 5 minutes? a day? If it is long enough, some people may start using such a thing to "swap out" classes so that they can run with rogue skills on one quest, then use wands on the next, and then go back to their original character afterwards. That would not be working as intended. Also, if they go that route, it opens up a whole new argument of:

Well, I gimped my character, but didn't realize until after the timer ran out...Turbine Screwed my character!!! They should change the timer to X minutes!!!

No truly simple way out for them, but if people learned to be accountable for themselves and double checked things that are irreversible, then this would be a non-issue.

[Mentor61]

Wow, you guys really gave the OP a beating on this one. I see that he was annoyed about the situation as well, but it seems to me that he was making sure everyone else was aware this could happen to them as well if they didn't pay attention during lesser reincarnation.

More like, "Hey- everyone make sure you don't do what I did or your screwed for a week."

The OP took a beating because he was either high,drunk or not the sharpest tool in the box.To not realize you max a stat that isn't your main is something.To not realize you have a bazillion skill points more is another thing.But to then come back and blame Turbine...I believe that's what he is taking heat for.Rightfully so in my book.Turbine can't possibly add more confirmation boxes than there already is.And a bit of reading up on something important you wish to undertake goes a long way.

[Shaamis]

Because most programmers realise that people make mistakes and design the UI to allow users to correct those mistakes (even if that requires them to re-start the entire process again).

Good to see you decided to empathise with the OP, rather than take cheap shots, and did not rub his nose in a mistake he obviously wishes he had not made (as it cost him at least 900TPs and a week).

Most programmers only care about end users when they HAVE to, thats why we call them LUSERS.

DDO is not Turbo Tax. It doesnt check for faults, it just asks you, are you SURE, in big red letters. It's up to the USER, to check, and confirm.

The Rez process asks you multiple times to check,and confirm your correctness, because once you hit save, you will be charged, it will save, and you will HAVE to wait.

OP should have really went back, and CHECKED it to make sure it was OK, before pressing save, like the BIG RED LETTERS say.

Other than the game, going back and checking his work, that he should have done, you cant hold a persons hand any more.

DDO is not TurboTax.

[Nonan]

Big companies want a limit to the amount of compensation you can claim if they hurt/kill you. They use this case to support that limit.

I suggest you read the actual case of Stella Liebeck (and others also scalded by McDonalds coffee).

I have spilt coffee on myself but never required skin grafts and 2 months in hospital to recover (as Liebeck did).


@rage9
Next you will be correcting me for using 'colour', not understanding it is a correct spelling in many parts of the world...

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/empathise

But you probably didnt put a styrofoam cup of hot coffee in between your legs while driving either. Although I am sorry she got hurt, she does have some of the responsibility in that case especially since she said she had been to McDonalds before and the coffee is always hot.