Balanced Adventuring Infiltrator

[buddyman97]

I'll start off by saying I am a new f2p player, having played since this last November (bout 3 months now). I have a level 8 THF Pally that I have been having fun learning the game with (but have been playing MMO's since 1999). I do a lot of adventuring with my son, my brother, and my dad (I got them all playing DDO, lol). I recently got 400 favor to unlock the Drow, and I decided I wanted to try a Ranger Tempest build (preferring the melee route rather than the ranged Arcane Archer at this time).

After looking at some of the suggested builds on the New Player forums, I decided to take some of the advice I read there and tailor my own build according to what I think I want, but it's really my first attempt at planning a worthy adventuring build. I may do some raids if they arise, but I am mainly just wanting to get through as many quests as I can on the way to level 20 on my first go-round, and probably staying at 20 for a while rather than reincarnating.

I'd like this build to be trap and lock capable; not the best, but able to do 75-90% of what's in the game. And I would like him to be be on the low side of high dps (as opposed to the high side of low dps), so not looking for a pure max dps build.

Here is the build I came up with so far:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 12 Neutral Good Drow Male
(6 Rogue \ 6 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 128
Spell Points: 40 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 15
Will: 5

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)          (Level 12)           (Level 12)
Strength             14                 14                   14
Dexterity            18                 19                   21
Constitution         14                 14                   14
Intelligence         10                 10                   10
Wisdom               10                 12                   12
Charisma             10                 10                   10

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 12)          (Level 12)
Balance               4                 10                   10
Bluff                 0                  0                    0
Concentration         4                  4                    4
Diplomacy             0                  0                    0
Disable Device        4                 15                   16
Haggle                0                  0                    0
Heal                  0                  1                    1
Hide                  8                 15                   15
Intimidate            0                  0                    0
Jump                  2                  2                    2
Listen                4                 12                   14
Move Silently         8                 16                   16
Open Lock             8                 20                   21
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                  0                    0
Search                2                 11                   13
Spot                  2                 12                   14
Swim                  2                  2                    2
Tumble                n/a               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      4                 15                   15

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Listen (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Ranger Extra Empathy I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I


Level 4 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 5 (Ranger)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Sprint Boost I
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I


Level 6 (Ranger)
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance II
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I


Level 7 (Ranger)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II


Level 8 (Ranger)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Hide (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Move Silently (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I


Level 9 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+3)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance III
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Balance (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Listen (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II

I was able to get through the first 12 levels with the planner, ending up with a 6rogue/6ranger, and now I have questions if I should change some of my choices and also where I should take it from here. I took rogue at level 1, ranger at 2, rogue at 3, then went ranger from levels 4 thru 8 to end up with 2/6 so I could get Tempest I right before I get Weapon Finesse as my selected feat at level 9. From levels 9 through 12 I wanted to take all rogue levels to get to 6/6.

- I didn't use any tomes, as I haven't found any in my adventures yet, and wanted to start basic with this anyway. But I still had a question on what kind of impact it would have for the build if I was able to find a +1 INT tome around 4/6 or 5/6 and then use my level 12 stat point for INT to get a natural 12 for some more skill points. Or if I could somehow get a +2 INT tome, I assume that would be the best thing to do, so I can use my stat increase for something else?

- Stat Increases:
level 4: WIS to prepare for ranger level 1 spells
level 8: WIS to make a natural 12 for the bonus
levels 12, 16, 20: planning on doing DEX for the rest

Does this sound like a viable stat plan for this build?

- My alignment is set at Neutral Good, but should I be something like Lawful Good to take advantage of more weapon choices?

- Build Correction: I accidentally put 2 points into Concentration at 1rogue instead of into Balance.

- I was using Ranger levels to raise Move Silently, Hide, Search, Spot, and Listen; Rogue levels to raise UMD, Open Lock, Disable Device, and Balance. Did I spread the points well enough to be effective in doing some sneak attack damage as well as finding some traps? Or should I not worry about the Move Silently/Hide emphasis tor raise the Disable and Open skills to more respectable levels? Mostly I just don't know what kind of levels make for competent trap disabling and lock picking.

- I get the feeling that Wild Empathy is better suited for an Arcane Archer build, and I took the Extra WE enhancement as I had a leftover AP at that level (leftover meaning everything better cost 2 or more AP). Would I be better off saving that AP at that level for something better in the next level? Or (for my build) is there actually something useful about this ability that I am not seeing?

- I selected Undead and Elemental as my 2 Favored Enemies. But I was also considering Animal, Monstrous Humanoid, Construct, Reptilian and/or Chaotic and Evil Outsider. How common are these types of enemies that I could get the most bang out of my 2 favored enemy slots? I think I am for sure wanting Undead for sure since I play a Pally I have already bought the Catacombs pack for, and plan on buying Necropolis and other undead-themed packs when I get the TP; but I am not sure what other enemies would be a good choice yet.

- For my level 12 feat I selected Improved Critical:Piercing, but was also considering the importance of Oversized TWF and Weapon Focus:Piercing with this build since I am taking the Drow Melee enhancements. I think I would like to have all 3 of these for this build eventually but I am wondering what order they should be taken? Like, which is the better dps boost to get first? Or does the order not matter?

- I have thought about going to 8 rogue to get granted Improved Uncanny Dodge as soon as I can for more survivability. I also figure I will take these last 2 levels of rogue to make it 8/6 to get as much skill points into the rogue skills (umd, disable, open, balance) as I can up front.I know I wanted to get to at least 11ranger so I could get granted ITWF, and there's nothing more from the ranger line for me, except for Tempest II at level 12, as I can only go to 14ranger at max level from this point. SO while I am at 8rogue/11ranger is there anything that I could get from level 9 rogue that would outweigh me getting level 12 ranger? From what I can see 9 rogue only gets me some better Trap Sense and Sneak Attack. Also...if I was sure I was going level 12 ranger, would this build be better served by going from 6/6 to 6/12 and getting those 2 rogue levels as 19 and 20?

Oh, and btw this is actually my son's VIP account I am posting from. I was having trouble logging into the boards as my own account at the time of this posting. Hopefully this will be remedied tomorrow. Sorry for such a long post with so many questions. Thank you ahead of time for your input and feedback.

[greenshag]

Wow, no one has any opinions on this? lol

Did I ask too many questions?

(I am the OP, I figured out what was wrong with my own board access)


Hehe, I really do want to work this build. And since I posted I have gotten him almost to level 3, but I realized I want to do my 3rd level as ranger and 4th level as rogue so I can get TWF one level sooner. I didn't expect anything to actually test his skills yet as he has been able to disable all but one trap and open all locks so far, and monsters haven't given me any trouble at all. I was able to do all the Korthos town-quests (not the 3 outside the gates) on Hard difficulty solo and didn't have any problem when I did the outside quests on normal.

If someone could please answer a few of these questions I have up above, I am starting to come up on the levels I need the advice. I really just want to be useful for most traps and locks (am working on saving/acquiring +open/disble gear) and do some med-high dps for the group.

[gavagai]

Just a couple quick thoughts about your build:

For level 20 builds, I think your best bet would be to plan on 13 Rogue / 6 Ranger / 1 other (probably Fighter or Barbarian). The High number of rogue levels will give you the skill points to keep your skills maxxed and two rogue special feats. Also, as a Dex-based build, your only real means of delivering high DPS is through sneak attack, and 13 Rogue gives you nice SA numbers. Finally, you can also take the acrobat PrE, which is just nifty.

About your level up points: don't use them on wisdom or int! With a 10 Wisdom you only need to wear a +4 item to cast all you spells; you don't gain any other benefit from a high wisdom. Since you want a high Dex, you should put all those points into your dex. Not Wis

Similarly with Int: the extra skill point per level isn't crucial to your build, and is as easily achieved with a +2 tome instead of +1. Those level-up points are very valuable, so spend them on your most important stat.

For alignment: true neutral is actually a great choice for the higher levels, since it makes you immune to alignment-based magic attacks. As a rogue, you should have maxxed UMD which will allow you to use any of the alignment-sensitive equipment anyway.

For rogue skills: Keep Search, Spot, and Disable Traps maxxed at all levels. Open Locks only requires 5-10 points for most chests and doors, but with all those rogue levels you can keep it higher.

For Favored Enemy: Undead is great. For the second I would suggest Giant until after Gianthold, then swap it for Evil Outsider.

For feats: Improved Crit is the most damage-boosting feat for a rapier-user. Take it ASAP. Weapon Focus isn't worth it; get Toughness instead. Your last feat will need to be Greater Two Weapon FIghting, since you won't get that one for free.

Hope you find this useful. Apologies in advance for sleepy typos.

[greenshag]

I will seriously think about a 13/6/1. I was thinking a wiz or sorc would be good for wands and scrolls maybe?
fighter for more dps and/or defense?
cleric/pally for slightly better heals?
maybe go 2 levels pally for LoH?

For now I will get to 6/6 rogue/ranger, as that would be a pretty good accomplishment for me right now anyway.

I revised my planner profile, so hopefully it looks better now.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.10
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Oryion Starkiller
Level 12 True Neutral Drow Male
(6 Rogue \ 6 Ranger) 
Hit Points: 128
Spell Points: 25 
BAB: 10\10\15\20
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 17
Will: 4

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Stats          Modified Stats
Abilities        (Level 1)             (Level 12)
Strength             14                    14
Dexterity            18                    24
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         10                    10
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             10                    10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 12)
Balance               4                     9
Bluff                 0                     0
Concentration         2                     2
Diplomacy             0                     0
Disable Device        4                    15
Haggle                0                     0
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  8                    18
Intimidate            0                     0
Jump                  2                     8
Listen                4                    13
Move Silently         8                    18
Open Lock             8                    22
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                0                     0
Search                4                    13
Spot                  4                    13
Swim                  2                     2
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      4                    15

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Dodge
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 2 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Defense I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 3 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Mobility
Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Resistance I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I


Level 5 (Ranger)


Level 6 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Spring Attack
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Improved Spell Resistance I
Enhancement: Elven Enchantment Resistance I


Level 7 (Ranger)
Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Elemental
Enhancement: Drow Melee Damage II
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Damage II


Level 8 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Ranger Tempest I
Enhancement: Ranger Dexterity II


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Finesse
Enhancement: Ranger Favored Attack I


Level 10 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Drow Melee Attack II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Faster Sneaking II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II

[Darkgnoll]

You only need 11 Wis if you're just going to Ranger 6, cause the only spells you'll have then are level 1 spells. So, Wisdom is fairly easy to dump for your idea.

[greenshag]

I think that is part of the question I will have to think about when I get to 6/6... do I want to go 13rogue/6ranger or do I want to continue with my original idea and go 12ranger/6rogue? I like the idea of a melee "specialist" with the ranger's favored enemy, and was thinking that I could swap my 2nd FE in and out as times called for it, so the 12/6 works for that.

At 12/6 I still have open levels, and was having a hard time seeing much benefit in 2 more ranger levels, so figured I would default to 2 more rogue levels for more trap/lock skills along with two more beneficial granted feats: Sneak Attack and Improved Uncanny Dodge.

I will look more into some other classes like the ones in my previous post to compare what 2 levels of those could do for this build.

Question about Ranger spells: do I gain spell levels at ranger levels 4(level 1), 8(level 2), 12(level 3), 16(level 4)? And if so, does this mean I will need to have a WIS of 13 or more for level 3 ranger spells? It's (ranger) level +1, correct?

[Janth]

Its wis 10+spell level, not ranger level. Its takes 4 ranger levels to get your level 1 spell (rams might is a good for the size bonus plus 2 to strength and damage, but i'm not sure what to take on a dex based toon) so at ranger level 4 you would only need 11 wis.

[gavagai]

I think that is part of the question I will have to think about when I get to 6/6... do I want to go 13rogue/6ranger or do I want to continue with my original idea and go 12ranger/6rogue? I like the idea of a melee "specialist" with the ranger's favored enemy, and was thinking that I could swap my 2nd FE in and out as times called for it, so the 12/6 works for that.

There are a few benefits to both 13 Rogue and 12 Ranger. Let me lay them out:

Ranger 12:
3rd FE @ 10, +2 to-hit, +9 Damage vs. FE (incl. enhancements)
Free GTWF, Precise Shot, Imp. Precise Shot at 11
Can cast Elemental resist 30/- at 11
Barkskin +5 at 12
Tempest 2 -- +1 to hit with TWF and +3 shield AC
Level 3 Spell.
More SP; 12 Minute spell durations.

Rogue 13:
Improved Evasion (half damage on failed reflex save; no damage on successful save)
Crippling Strike (-2 STR on each sneak attack)
+7d6+12 Sneak Attack damage
Acrobat: Movement speed +10%, knockdown/slippery surface immunity, short-term Dex buff

Obviously both offer utility. IMO the Rogue gives you more benefits that you cannot otherwise get. You can take GTWF with a normal feat, since you will have the 17 Dex; you can get Shield, Barkskin, and resists from wands, potions, and equipment. Meanwhile movement speed, knockdown immunity, high sneak attack numbers, and crippling strike cannot be as easily duplicated.

But if you go 12/6, I would recommend making it 12/7/1. The 7th rogue level gives an extra 1d6+3 sneak attack damage, Haste Boost III, and Subtle Backstabbing II. I'd take the last level in Fighter, Barbarian, or Monk, but that's up to you.

Question about Ranger spells: do I gain spell levels at ranger levels 4(level 1), 8(level 2), 12(level 3), 16(level 4)? And if so, does this mean I will need to have a WIS of 13 or more for level 3 ranger spells?

Correct. Wisdom 14 allow you to cast Ranger 4 spells. Now any enhancement bonus counts towards this requirement, so with a starting 10 Wisdom, you only need a +3 Wisdom item to cast up to level 3 spells. Those are easy to come by, so no worries with your wisdom.