still worth it to keep critical rage?

[Relenthe]

I have a 18/2 barbarian rogue that uses heavy picks, I love the fact that my weapons are 17-20 x4, and I am a little less healer dependent without frenzied berserker, but I am getting more and more tempted to drop it and become a frenzied berserker.

Are there any barbarians out there still with critical rage that believe it is beneficial to keep it?

[Cedwin]

I have a 18/2 barbarian rogue that uses heavy picks, I love the fact that my weapons are 17-20 x4, and I am a little less healer dependent without frenzied berserker, but I am getting more and more tempted to drop it and become a frenzied berserker.

Are there any barbarians out there still with critical rage that believe it is beneficial to keep it?

17-20 x4

or

19-20 x6 with more Str, + vicious and greater vicious

[LargeMarge]

I have a 18/2 barbarian rogue that uses heavy picks, I love the fact that my weapons are 17-20 x4, and I am a little less healer dependent without frenzied berserker, but I am getting more and more tempted to drop it and become a frenzied berserker.

Are there any barbarians out there still with critical rage that believe it is beneficial to keep it?

I am in the same debate right now on what to do with my 18/2 barbarian rogue that still has critical rage. The one thing that is in the back of my head is the possibility that I could update my Sword of Shadows to epic. Would she dish out more dps with an Epic Sword of Shadows with critical rage, or would she be better as a TR pure barbarian with an Epic Sword of Shadows?

There are a lot of people that REALY believe in frenzied berserker, and think that if it is not a frenzied berserker...that that toon is a gimp.

I think what I could do is just roll up a new pure WF barbarian and keep my 18/2.

[HeavenlyCloud]

17-20 x4

or

19-20 x6 with more Str, + vicious and greater vicious

19-20 x7

[Strakeln]

Several disagree with me on this, but I say that someday, a weapon will come out that makes crit rage more powerful than FB, while using that weapon only, of course.

If you've held onto it this long, why stop now? Eventually your time will come. Wait for it.

[Cedwin]

Several disagree with me on this, but I say that someday, a weapon will come out that makes crit rage more powerful than FB, while using that weapon only, of course.

If you've held onto it this long, why stop now? Eventually your time will come. Wait for it.

An epic pick maybe?

[Missing_Minds]

I have a 18/2 barbarian rogue that uses heavy picks, I love the fact that my weapons are 17-20 x4, and I am a little less healer dependent without frenzied berserker, but I am getting more and more tempted to drop it and become a frenzied berserker.

Are there any barbarians out there still with critical rage that believe it is beneficial to keep it?

Until Occult Slayer and Ravager comes out so I can see all options for my Human barb, I'm keeping it. (if I were WF, I'd be waiting on the Juggernaut as well.)

Crit rage II is the best melee way to remove constructs and outsiders with smiters/banishers. That is the primary advantage you currently have.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I currently have one FB and one CR2 barb. I see the damage numbers on the FB barb and it is scarey how much he contributes. On the other hand the CR2 barb crits smaller, but more often, and isn't beating himself up (something that I always feel guilty about on non bosses on my FB Barb)

I think I'm going to keep one of each, at least for a little while longer. As someone else said, lets at least see if we get other interesting epic weapons and/or PrEs.

[SteeleTrueheart]

I think the epic SoS would qualify as an awesome weapon to use with crit rage:

Epic Sword of Shadow - (Weapon) +10 Great Sword (base dmg: 4d6 +10, crit: 18-20 / x4), Adamantine, Empty Colorless Augment Slot, Empty Red Augment Slot

Becomes 13-20/x4 with IC slash and crit rage 2.

[Cedwin]

I think the epic SoS would qualify as an awesome weapon to use with crit rage:



Becomes 13-20/x4 with IC slash and crit rage 2.

I think I would still prefer 15-20/x7, but maybe that's just me.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I think the epic SoS would qualify as an awesome weapon to use with crit rage:

Becomes 13-20/x4 with IC slash and crit rage 2.

Sadly I expect many CR2 barbs are TWF spec'd. I suppose we could feat swap...but all that pretty GS...

I think I would still prefer 15-20/x7, but maybe that's just me.

Except that you don't get that. The FB crit bonus only applies on 19-20

[Aaxeyu]

Until Occult Slayer and Ravager comes out so I can see all options for my Human barb, I'm keeping it. (if I were WF, I'd be waiting on the Juggernaut as well.)

That doesn't make any sense.
FB is better than crit rage, I don't see what occult slayer and Ravager got to do with anything. If one of them happen to be better than FB you can just spec into that. Still no point to keep crit rage.

[LargeMarge]

ok...these are just some quick calculations. Maybe we could get someone to add in the STR dmg and vicious dmg to them.

base dmg: (4d6)+10 = (4 x 3.5)+10 = 23.6


dmg x (crit range) x (crit multi) = dmg

crit rage II: 23.6 x (8/20) x (4) = 37.76

frenz: [23.6 x (4/20) x (4)] + [23.6 x (2/20) x (7)] = 35.4


I think that the frenz would win out due to the fact that I have not added in the increased STR bonus or the vicious effects. I wish we could get someone who understands this a little better to cruch the numbers.

[Cedwin]

Except that you don't get that. The FB crit bonus only applies on 19-20

Wait, does it apply the crit bonus to the natural crit range of the weapon, or always on 19-20?

The description is very misleading.

While raging, the critical multiplier of all weapons you use is increased by an additional 1.

[Ulf]

Most in this thread have been comparing the +3 crit multiplier on 19-20 from FB with the old +2 crit range. If that is the only comparison, it's simple.

Ignoring weap burst effects, dmg ~ #noncrits + #crits*crit mod = #noncrits + (19 - #noncrits)*crit mod = x + (19 - x)*y.
For FB: dmg ~ x + (17 - x)*y + 2*(y + 3) = x - x*y + 17*y + 6
For crti range: dmg ~ (x - 2) + (19 - (x - 2))*y = x -x*y + 21*y - 2
So FB > CR is true if 4y > 8, or if weapon base crit multiplier: x2 or x3 FB adds more, x4 FB same as crit rage, a theoretical x5 base crit multiplier weapon would be better for a crit range babr vs a FB.

However, +3 to crit multiplier on a 19-20 is not the only bouns to FB, so even on a x4 weap, FB will be more dps.

Crit rage is better for weapon effects like banishing or puncturing. Take a TWF crit rage barb with IC pierce and a pair of banishing rapiers into coalesence its a cake walk. But for the most part crit weap effects are not anywhere as powerful as they once were.

edit: added some quick numbers to clarify.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

Wait, does it apply the crit bonus to the natural crit range of the weapon, or always on 19-20?

The description is very misleading.

It is very misleading. The current description was correct on Lama...but then they pointed out that it was so overpowered 100% of FBs would be using falchons or rapiers. The fix, as I understand it, is that the crit bonus only applies on a crit with a natural roll of a 19-20... (so if you only crit on a 20 it only applies on a 20, but if you have a keen GA 19-20 works or if you have a falchon the bonus only applies to 19-20 rolls)

[Strakeln]

I think I would still prefer 15-20/x7, but maybe that's just me.

This is where a lot of the confusion stems from, I think.

It's 15-18 x4, 19-20 x7.

The description is very misleading.

Agreed.

[Missing_Minds]

That doesn't make any sense.
FB is better than crit rage, I don't see what occult slayer and Ravager got to do with anything. If one of them happen to be better than FB you can just spec into that. Still no point to keep crit rage.

I'm an original TWF barb before TWF barbs really came into their own. You eat up a **** load of feats to the point backing them out and then putting them in would have taken an ansine long time.
Then came the change to the dragonshards.
Then came the cost of a lesser.

$o it make$ perfect $ence why I'm waiting. Thi$ way I only have to change thing$ around once.

[Belwaar]

I currently have one FB and one CR2 barb. I see the damage numbers on the FB barb and it is scarey how much he contributes. On the other hand the CR2 barb crits smaller, but more often, and isn't beating himself up (something that I always feel guilty about on non bosses on my FB Barb)

I think I'm going to keep one of each, at least for a little while longer. As someone else said, lets at least see if we get other interesting epic weapons and/or PrEs.

Yup, my main is a CR2 Barb, and am working on my FB one...it would be REALLY hard to give up the CR2...not sure why, but it's more sentiment than anything...

[LargeMarge]

ok...these are just some quick calculations. Maybe we could get someone to add in the STR dmg and vicious dmg to them.

base dmg: (4d6)+10 = (4 x 3.5)+10 = 23.6


dmg x (crit range) x (crit multi) = dmg

crit rage II: 23.6 x (8/20) x (4) = 37.76

frenz: [23.6 x (4/20) x (4)] + [23.6 x (2/20) x (7)] = 35.4


I think that the frenz would win out due to the fact that I have not added in the increased STR bonus or the vicious effects. I wish we could get someone who understands this a little better to cruch the numbers.

ok...let me redo the math...

crit rage II: {23.6 x (11/20) x 1} + {23.6 x (8/20) x 4} = 50.74

frenz: {[23.6 x (13/20) x 1] + [23.6 x (4/20) x 4] + [23.6 x (2/20) x 7]} = 50.74

NOTES
- I did not include any of the extra bonuses to damage that the frenzied berserker gets (i.e. extra STR, glancing blows, vicious, and greater vicious)

CONCLUSION
- It looks like the Frenzied Berserker would produce WAY more DPS than a crit II barbarian.

- I will be TR-ing my old 18/2 Barbarian/Rogue to a WF Frenzied Berserker as soon as the new patch comes out. I will be sad to see this happen. I was hoping that I could hold on to the Crit Rage II for a while. I was thinking there had to be a reason why they got rid of Crit Rage. I guess my conspiracy theory was wrong.