"Use your stuff for me" - a discussion

[Zenako]

That cleric was me.
Well, of our party about 3 people where down to about 3/4 of their health. I don't usually top off at all between fights, it's just much more cost-effective to wait till they get some more damage and throw in a bigger cure.
Now, that one guy asked for a mass heal and I wasn't really thinking about it and told him I didn't have that yet. He began complaining about my "wisecracking" and got a bit insulting. Apparently he just wanted any mass cure, but really, I didn't thought it necessary, and after his comment even less so.

Cool.... quite a few players who never touch/play a healing class character are often somewhat clueless about things from what I have seen. One reason I see so much self sufficiency in guilds is that I would guess a lot of long time guilded players have rosters of characters which include at least one healer among them (perhaps not player much, but at least enough to get a feel of the class).

As you have learned, topping off is an excellent way to waste SP, (which is why I was wondering about CSW wands being used). It can sometimes be amusing seeing how low you can sustain the party at and not lose anyone (especially amongst friends). (Quicken helps you to cut it even closer...).

[Riorik]

Would have been interesting to hear the whole story on that one too.

Same.

As a cleric, it's my job, not yours, to manage my contribution to the party/raid. I can think of many reasons and situations where I would always versus when I wouldn't top off the party. Factors that play into this would be quest knowledge, perception of how the party is doing, how they're doing (are they known solid players or unknown puggers) and do they seem to be self sufficient or not.

Absolutely in a situation where I know a shrine is close, the party is handling everything well, spell points are tight (this one usually isn't a factor if other things are going well) and I know that although they're at 2/3rds hit points, it still means they have 300+...I might not top them off.

[Anderei]

The cleric thing is going a little of topic, but I usually top off with wands, especially since I leveled a hagglebot, hardly a reason not to do so (except the party really runs smooth and easy), (I do so ever since I dropped dead with -10 health with a desintegrate, when I was "85% of health is good enough"). Compared by the amounts of money you have with a capped character hardly a reason not to have a few CSW wands with you. And if you are bored while waiting for something, you might even take out the Ethernal CMW (or as I call it, the magic blessing of topping) just to pester people I love it when they go "Ah, stop doing that".

[Uska]

Your spell points your rules, in pop I just try to keep the group hasted while clearing and then just before they start the rooms I dont worry about it to much while clearing as I have made it clear that all hastes will be centered on me so if your haste is running out head for me. Now I will run forward if they tank is fighting to catch him in the center of effect.


ITs my sp and I like to run fast as well.

[Danmor]

My main characters are healers (FvS and Cleric) so I'm often asked for "remove this, remove that" spells.
This is something that I don't really like, because my FvS doesn't have all those spells prepped all the time. Besides, I don't see why I have to buy the remove pots/wands to use them on a ranger that can use wands...
On the other hand, helping people out helps the party.

In essence, I think it's a two-sided thing. If it's necessary/useful I'll share resources. But if I feel something's not warranted I'll say so.

[Mosch]

As for the questions: He was a favoured Soul specced for offensive casting, as far as I could tell from the blade barriers. I'm not going to name any names and please don't rag on the guy, we two made up and there's no need to spike the ball, so to speak.
My mana issues... there aren't really any. I have about 1200 Sp at level 14, which is usually enough. I play very conservatively, maybe even too much so, and to be honest I could have easily kept the group hasted through the entire quest, but this quest is quite easy, the group was very powerful and I like playing around, so I just did not bother, especially not after I felt I was being talked down to (And this is really the thing here. I was treated like an idiot and in turn I ignored any spell requests, no matter if they were useful or not.).

[hermespan]

There is 'my stuff' discussion here. Your playing an arcane. Part of your role in party is to cast haste. If people are not hasted dps goes down. If your not keeping the party hasted then you will get blacklisted from groups. There is no argument about this. It's like a caster who goes into wiz king without firewall. It shows a gross misunderstanding of game dynamics.

Jump on the other hand is not a critical buff in PoP. There is a reason to cast it however as it is useful in maneuvering if you are good at doing it. This is annoying if they want to kite mobs with it however, unless they are an arcane or divine using persistent aoe damage spells.

As for self sufficiency arguments they are nonsense in this context. It is never more efficient for others to buff haste and it is only more efficient for jump if they are level 18+ which if your doing PoP I'm guessing they were not.

bards can caste haste too. In the absence of a bard, it's the arcane's job. I do agree with the firewall in wiz king sentiment. That's just ********. It also adds +1 dodge bonus to ac and saves, in addition to the 15% attack speed increase, so it has a compound benefit.

As well if you hear "haste on [char name] in 5...4...3...2...1" you missed it. I shouldn't need to say anything in the first place. I'm not casting it again for 3.5 minutes. I can do more DPS with one firewall than you'll gain with those SP I'm wasting. People that don't gravitate to the caster when their haste is running down between fights are just plain annoying.

You have the same timer I do, use it!

[Turgar]

If I am running quests for xp I am usually zerging as hard and fast as I can. If a healer doesn't do their job well, or an arcane cant maintain something as simple as a haste the party reforms after that quest, and they dont get in to the next one. There is no conversation, no arguments, just no reinvite.
That actually happened in POP last month, and the arcane sent me a tell asking what they did wrong. I said not enough haste, and that I was replacing them with someone who could keep the party hasted. He apologised, and got a reinvite, and did fine after that. Sometimes an arcane needs a reminder that they are good for nothing in that level range if they cant keep haste on, and drop firewalls where needed.
If people are dying, and a healer is to blame, (if you are taking too much dps and need to back off, yet dont, its not the healers fault if you die.) they will get replaced at earliest convenience. I have no problem running gianthold without a healer in the party, but if you are taking a dps spot in the group, do your job or get dropped before we begin the next quest. A healer who doesnt heal, or an arcane who wont haste is no better than a monk that wont attack anything. The person doing that is a piker, and a liability that slows down the xp per hour of the party.

[transtemporal]

Do you think everyone in the party is entitled to the ressources of everyone else?

In as far as its reasonable and prudent for that quest and difficulty. For most quests and difficulties, you need a lot less buffs than people think. Its especially funny when people for gh in shavarath quests for example.

[kitselli]

I'm with Missing Minds...
As a level 14 party, who needs to kite mobs in PoP; let alone jump kite them!!??
I've been in some pretty bads groups in there... near misses, close calls.
But PoP content is not overly challenging to where you have to kite mobs around. Even for undergeared toons (me), good teamwork always prevails.

So for this person demanding a jump to be cast upon him, that's just dumb...IMHO...
Kit

[Turgar]

I think jump is pretty pointless in a lot of quests, however if a player gets wedged in by mobs (this shouldnt happen in pop) they are going to need intense healing if they cant jump out. My take is that your resources are yours, until you join a party. If your party is asking you to squander your resources in a stupid way, then leave.

[Cyr]

Why the 18+ cutoff? Jump spell gains its maximum effect at level 11 for a +30 boost.

Curious?

Simple. There is only one jump clickie in the game that I can recall that has a duration longer then one minute and that comes on a ToD belt (ML 18). Scrolls are 1 minute also. Either way one minute buffs are horrible to use in dungeons as they kill dps. I kind of assume that the guy asking for the buff was not a wizard/sorc/6+ ranger...otherwise that's like a cleric saying why aren't you healing me all the time.

[Lorz]

Actually if you have to jump in Pop...just reroll.

Seriously, you want the buff..ask nicely..if i say no...deal with it. Getting upset does not help your case.

Remember..you only think i need you to complete the quest....chances are I know i dont.

[Anneliese]

What goes around, comes around. This usually works well in DDO.

[Arlith]

Basically, after the quest started and I had buffed people up with Blur and Greater Heroism (I play a wizard, obviously), someone demanded Jump to be cast on him. I asked why, because I could not see the need for it in PoP - this was obviously wrong, as I was told that I should stop asking and cast the spell.

Generally my casters will give out as many buffs as people want. However, in this situation the proper reponse is to tell the person you do not have jump and then promptly cast it on yourself. Deny all accusations that you have the spell. If he really ****es you off, tell him you do not have the spell then cast it on everyone in the party but him. This is not about self-sufficiency or buffing, this is dealing with a jack ass and is TOTALLY separate from dealing with people being prepared or dealing with what buffs should or should not be handed out.

[Rasczak]

whytf do you bother kiting mobs in PoP? Maybe in the end fight possibly, but not at any point in the rest of the quest.

What I want to know...kiting mobs is only for certain situations. Kiting every mob in every situations is just annoying, plus I dare the kiter to try take aggro off me :P

End of the day, everyone plays the way they want to so they can enjoy their time. I may ask for a buff now and then because an extended version is better than a clickie but honestly anyone demanding buffs is either really new or really lazy.

Getting into an argument over jump seems like the pointless and childish drivel I see starting to creep into my groups. I may need to stop Pugging soon and go casual.....coz I'm hardcore and solo everything

Only advice I can offer is, a well buffed party is usually more successful when conserving spell points and resources than an unbuffed party, a well buffed party is also an arrogant party that will die and point fingers You either offer yourself up for buffs or you don't, being a team effort doesn't it stand to reason that you protect your party members within reason?

[Memnir]

This is exactly why I carry Grease clickies.

[Gremmlynn]

For me, I'll cast what buffs I feel are necessary and appreciate what buffs I get from others. I expect the healer to keep me alive till the end of a fight, but top off with potions/wands when it's over and I have the time.

I will say I'm not a big haste fan as it seems to allow to many to move faster than they can think, which I find annoying.

[AbsynthMinded]

If asked politely I never flinch at casting anything anyone wants or needs. Except when there is an over ridding factor not obvious, like a need to conserve points, or a frequent dispelling effect like beholders.

For myself, My cleric does not have a lot of jump effect clickies or potions nor a good jump skill + item, so I ask for jump if it is available all the time or always hit House P on the way to whatever. Because without it I can hardly hop over pebbles, let alone a group of mobs or any serious obstacles.

[Grimgore]

I will give any buff that someone requests, provided I have it mem'd. All they have to say is please. No please; no spell. Some people ask for spells that I cannot provide (a lot more recently then before) like Fire Shield or just plain Shield (self only) or want to be constantly buffed with stone skin. Some people need to be educated is all and some have the misconception that we as casters (or healers) have one function and one function only: to make their game experience better.