Bard15/Rogue5 - War Chanter/Trap Handler Feedback

[George40]

I have been playing on a static team with friends. Team mates are a Monk, Cleric (fairly melee focused), and a Wizard. Good friends, but fairly casual players. I have been playing the role of the Rogue up to now (lvl 5), but not finding it too fun. I was thinking of starting a new guy and catching up with the team that could fill in the Rogue jobs, but would focus more on being a War Chanter Bard to buff the Cleric and Monk. please take a look at the attached and let me know what you think. I am still pretty new to DDO and would welcome any feedback on this build or how playing this guy is likely to compare with the Rogue.

Thanks for any suggestions. FYI: I will figure out enchantments if it looks like this is a good idea.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
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Errol Trapsong
Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
(5 Rogue \ 15 Bard) 
Hit Points: 222
Spell Points: 544 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 16
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    16
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             15                    22

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     7
Bluff                 2                     6
Concentration         2                    26
Diplomacy             2                     6
Disable Device        5                    23
Haggle                6                    29
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  6                     7
Intimidate            2                     6
Jump                  6                     7
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         6                     7
Open Lock             6                    24
Perform               n/a                  29
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                    22
Spot                  3                    19
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      6                    29

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Spell (1): Charm Person


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (1): Summon Monster I


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (2): Hold Person


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (2): Invisibility
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (3): Crushing Despair


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (4): Shout
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing


Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (4): Hold Monster
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (5): Mind Fog


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA

[BoBoDaClown]

I have been playing on a static team with friends. Team mates are a Monk, Cleric (fairly melee focused), and a Wizard. Good friends, but fairly casual players. I have been playing the role of the Rogue up to now (lvl 5), but not finding it too fun. I was thinking of starting a new guy and catching up with the team that could fill in the Rogue jobs, but would focus more on being a War Chanter Bard to buff the Cleric and Monk. please take a look at the attached and let me know what you think. I am still pretty new to DDO and would welcome any feedback on this build or how playing this guy is likely to compare with the Rogue.

Thanks for any suggestions. FYI: I will figure out enchantments if it looks like this is a good idea.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Errol Trapsong
Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
(5 Rogue \ 15 Bard) 
Hit Points: 222
Spell Points: 544 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 16
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             14                    16
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             15                    22

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     7
Bluff                 2                     6
Concentration         2                    26
Diplomacy             2                     6
Disable Device        5                    23
Haggle                6                    29
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  6                     7
Intimidate            2                     6
Jump                  6                     7
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         6                     7
Open Lock             6                    24
Perform               n/a                  29
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                    22
Spot                  3                    19
Swim                  2                     3
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      6                    29

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Spell (1): Charm Person


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Spell (1): Summon Monster I


Level 5 (Rogue)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality
Spell (2): Blur
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds


Level 7 (Bard)
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (2): Hold Person


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Spell (2): Invisibility
Spell (3): Displacement
Spell (3): Haste


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Bard)
Spell (3): Crushing Despair


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)
Spell (3): Good Hope
Spell (4): Shout
Spell (4): Otto's Sphere of Dancing


Level 14 (Bard)
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA


Level 17 (Bard)
Spell (4): Hold Monster
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (5): Mind Fog


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (5): Mass Suggestion


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA

It's fine. You are missing power attack (which is both good and needed as a pre-req). Drop FOP for it (your will saves are high already).

You need that in your first six levels to grab war chanter. I would also grab extend early for those hastes.

I would drop int - I'm pretty sure you can max out your rogue skills with less int (my toon has less on a 3 rogue bard.

You could get a lot from two fighter levels, but... I like the fact your bard is a little different, so five rogue levels is cool.

Realise you ain't gonna land spells, so drop the cha (8 is fine - use items to hit minimum level for spells), raise str, and put all level ups into str.

Then you'll have a cool, original, effective build.

[quityourjobs]

I would lower Charisma to 12 and increase Strength to 16. Put your levelups into Str. You won't need many sps beyond what it takes to buff the group, and you won't land CCs with 15 caster levels and lowish Charisma.

A more aggressive version would also drop the Char to 8 and got with 16 Con.

Drop FOP and take Power Attack.

[CountHenri]

Max out Search & DD. OL and Spot can be lower. With 5 Rogue levels you can get away with less int for skills as well since less cross-class cost on the main ones. Concentration isn't that useful since you shouldn't be combat casting much if at all

Might want to consider True Neutral for alignment since that gives you access to Stability items & you will be able to UMD 20 for Good or Chaotic items. Get the Golden Cartouche from Delera's for +3 UMD.

[Anneliese]

Level 16 would give you level 6 spells - cure moderate wounds mass is nice for raids and with ottos irres dance your DC doesnt matter at all - you can make everything dance that has no SpellRes.

[Psyker]

I would look more strongly at a 16/4 split, you will wind up with 1 more BAB, a 6th level spell and, +1 reflex and Will save. At level 5 rogue gains no enhancements, skills or feats of any real value except for a slightly higher sneak attack. Also like others have said before me, less CHA more STR and CON.

I would also consider dropping DEX (easier to keep some CHA this way) and go with a THF using masters touch. Get yourself a Carnifex from Deleras and you wont need another weapon for some time.

[George40]

Thanks for the input guys. After taking a closer look I realized that there is virtually no advantage to the 4th and 5th level of Rogue that you can't get from ranger, plus with ranger you get several useful feats. So I revised the build as follows. I may have the concentration a bit high and may move some points from that to balance. What do you think?

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

BardRogue V2
Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
(3 Rogue \ 2 Ranger \ 15 Bard) 
Hit Points: 246
Spell Points: 532 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 12
Reflex: 19
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             12                    16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     8
Bluff                 1                     3
Concentration         2                    26
Diplomacy             1                     3
Disable Device        5                    24
Haggle                5                    26
Heal                 -1                     2
Hide                  4                     6
Intimidate            1                     3
Jump                  7                    11
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         4                     7
Open Lock             6                    20
Perform               n/a                  26
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                    24
Spot                  3                    15
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                6                     8
Use Magic Device      5                    26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Bard)
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Spell (1): Summon Monster I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (1): Expeditious Retreat
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 5 (Ranger)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Blur
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Spell (1): Feather Fall
Spell (2): Rage
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II


Level 9 (Ranger)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 11 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 13 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III


Level 14 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery II


Level 17 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III


Level 19 (Bard)
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Enhancement: Bard Wand Mastery III

[Braed]

It is almost impossible to make a multiclass Bard worse when you get extra melee feats out of it with Ranger or Fighter, so I think you'll like your character a lot. A very minor thing, but I wouldn't worry about the dog. I'd take Retreat ASAP. It sounds so minor, but I bet having that spell up at all times is like having a 10% exp bonus due to the speed you can get through quests and around town. I take it as my first spell and it is always up.

Also, I like to maximize Jump, or at least take a very, very healthy amount of it. You have considerations with Rogue skills that I don't have, so I'm not sure what you could sacrifice, if anything. Maybe 10 points of OL??

Good build.