SP Problems

[NotoriousTaz]

Hey all,

i am Level 6 Cleric now wiht 400 SP.
When doing some Quests with my Mate (a Rogue/Ranger) i heal him, CC and Buff both of us and it is usually easy going.
Doing Quests with 6 People, i lose SP way to fast. Is there any general advice on saving SP you could give me?
I guess i buff to much, but i'm not sure bout that. I keep reading Clerics shouldn't just heal but cast buffs and CC as much as possible. But i run out of SP by just Healing and doing nothing else. Is this a Lowlevel Problem which will solve itself? Am i Stupid and missing something i really should know to be a good Cleric? Are my Groups Stupid?

Any Advice will do. Thanks in Advance.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It is tougher at low to med levels, especially in a shortman group. That said, he's a ranger, outside of combat he should be healing himself, he can use a wand as well as you.

[Stalwyrt]

You are probably over-buffing. With a full group of six prioritize any buffs to front-line combatants, and try to stick to buffs you KNOW will be used vs. MAYBE will come up (i.e. don't buff all five energy resists just because you can). Also consider not using Extended versions. At low levels as the size of the group increases the closer to your primary job (healing) you will need to play, and let an arcane or bard pick up the buffing slack.

[chefgroovy]

Hey all,


Any Advice will do. Thanks in Advance.

I was in the same boat. I'm new myself but some things I've discovered:

1 - don't do the extended buff. Odds are a shrine is coming up and will lose the buffs anyways.
2 - Don't over heal or top off. They don't have to always be full health, if they want it full they can drink a potion
3 - Use the divine whatever (one that does heal overtime and takes a turn undead). it doesn't take any spell points and does a ton of healing
4 - Start to use heal wand when get to 30% spell points or so. Just to have some reserve if it hits the fan. Expensive, but what else got to spend money on? j/k
5 - always use heal potions on yourself, unless need a big heal
6 - stay away from combat so don't get hurt and have to waste potions. The little damage you do with mace isn't worth it. Also always keep diplomacy hotkeyed. If played WoW, its the equivalent of "fade"
7 - no cc unless more than 4 mobs or there's a caster. Not worth the effort
8 - no nukes or dmg spells. Let the big boys handle that

Of course all of these depend on circumstance. And I'm probably way off base, but been working for me

[Raelys]

You are probably over-buffing. With a full group of six prioritize any buffs to front-line combatants, and try to stick to buffs you KNOW will be used vs. MAYBE will come up (i.e. don't buff all five energy resists just because you can). Also consider not using Extended versions. At low levels as the size of the group increases the closer to your primary job (healing) you will need to play, and let an arcane or bard pick up the buffing slack.

I disagree with not extending. Unless you're running with full speed zerg groups, at low levels the buff durations are short enough that you're actually losing sp by needing to refresh buffs between shrines. I do agree that prioritizing buffs is the key though. Remember that anyone using a +4 or better stat item won't benefit from stat buffs (Bull's Strenght, Bear's Endurance, etc). Use the mass versions of buffs whenever possible, they're more sp efficient as long as you're benefiting more than one person. I tend to toss all my mass buffs then only situationally cast anything else I have.

Edit:
Oh, some more tips. Don't ever shrine right away unless you're completely out of sp. If you're on normal or casual (where you can reuse shrines) let everyone else rest first and use that extra sp to buff the rest of your party. If you're on hard or elite it's more of a judgement call. You may decide you have enough sp to keep going and can come back to the shrine. Generally the key thing is to try and make use of every last drop of sp before you shrine.

[Zenako]

OK, lets first assume you have a good WIS, perhaps a WIS boost item like +2 to WIS, and some item with POWER 1 thru 6 or so on it. Holding onto the POW item will boost your maximum SPell Points when you rest/shrine. So a POW 4 item (Power IV), will give you an extra 40 spell points. Only the most powerful Power or Wizardry Item will do this for you, so wearing 3 Power II items would only give you and extra 20, not 3 times 20 for 60. Their are also enhancements you can take to boost the number of SP you have. This is all to ensure you have the largest pool of SP you can have to work with. Your 400 seems about right.

Now at level 6 you and your allies are probably around 100 HP, especially if they are fighter types. AS you mention, when it is just the two of you, there seem to be enough SP to go around. That is probably because you take some care to not tackle more than you can handle at once (plus the dungeons scale downward in challenge a bit with smaller groups, so the monsters do not hit as well or as hard).

When you step into a full group, there is no downward scaling, everything is normal for the setting, so the monsters are likely hitting more often and harder than you are used to when running as duo. Since the characters are exactly the same in both cases, it can be more taxing to keep everyone healthy in a full group, UNLESS, everyone is also carrying their weight as well.

That means that any other casters (Clerics, Favored Souls, Wizards, Sorcerors, Bards, Rangers or Paladins) should also be helping with some spells. It is way too easy to overbuff people, especially if you are not sure what lies ahead. That is what your scout is for, to try and figure out what is needed. Don't cast buffs "just in case". Only cast buffs that are sure to be used. Some buffs might be completely wasted if the target is already protected or using something just as good. Ask. You can also inspect other character using the Focus Orb to see if they have spells going.

The other thing to do, is hold onto things like CLW wands and use them between fights and save your Spell Points for active healing in battle. If you have some Metamagic Feats, make sure you only have ones you really want active turned on. Those can burn up Spell Points quickly for very little benefit.

Don't overheal.

Also be sure to get the best Devotion Item you can find. That will boost the power of your healing. A superior Devotion Item will boost it 50%! I think you should be able to wield a Superior Devotion III (which affects up to third level spells) at level 6. Potency affects all spells, including healing, but since it is more powerful, you have to be higher level to wield the same level of effect as Devotion gives you for Healing Spells. Enhancemnt boosts stack with Devotion Items as well.

Everyone should be able to help share the burden in quests. Between fights everyone should be doing something to help themselves, while the cleric keeps the spell points for in battle triage when the melee types have little time to spend drinking potions.

[Superspeed_Hi5]

I disagree with not extending. Unless you're running with full speed zerg groups, at low levels the buff durations are short enough that you're actually losing sp by needing to refresh buffs between shrines. I do agree that prioritizing buffs is the key though. Remember that anyone using a +4 or better stat item won't benefit from stat buffs (Bull's Strenght, Bear's Endurance, etc). Use the mass versions of buffs whenever possible, they're more sp efficient as long as you're benefiting more than one person. I tend to toss all my mass buffs then only situationally cast anything else I have.

Id take that even further and not buff anyone with bulls, bears, eagles, etc. If they want it - tell em to go buy some potions from the Marketplace. Its in Tent city. Or if they have the favor to go get extended buffs from House P.
Only buffs I would hit them with are the ones that make your job easier in the healing dept.

[Kahuna68]

3 - Use the divine whatever (one that does heal overtime and takes a turn undead). it doesn't take any spell points and does a ton of healing

It's divine... healing. Isn't it?

[Zenako]

Divine Healing is an EXCELLENT enhancement to take. Divine Healing I will heal roughtly 30 points a cast (d3 points every 2 seconds for 30 seconds = 2 * 15 = 30)

Divine Healing II will do 60 and DHIII ends up doing about 90 points.

Even without extra feats or enhancements you should be able to have something on the order of a hafl dozen Turn Undead attempts you can convert to DH. 6 * DHI = 180 points of healing, which would be about 9 sure serious wound potions, every time you rest or shrine. At higher levels, the savings become even more pronounced.

Since you get Turns for free, the ONLY cost is the AP to take the Enhancement. It is cheap healing. And as a bonus, it can heal thru doors and grates and reach places that normal spells cannot or would be blocked. Very very useful and I am somewhat chagrined I forgot to bring it up given how often I champion its use.

[NotoriousTaz]

Thanks to all of you. Guess that'll help a lot.
Two more questions.
What about all those offensive Buffs, like Aid, Bless, Prayer and such. They are great, but i figure they are the Reason i run out of SP so fast.
I guess it would be good, to just buff them just before hitting very hard encounters?
And the Shield of Faith for Example. Doesn't it help to avoid Damage of any Type so it should be held up on at least the Frontliners? Or would you advice to not use it?

[Zenako]

Thanks to all of you. Guess that'll help a lot.
Two more questions.
What about all those offensive Buffs, like Aid, Bless, Prayer and such. They are great, but i figure they are the Reason i run out of SP so fast.
I guess it would be good, to just buff them just before hitting very hard encounters?
And the Shield of Faith for Example. Doesn't it help to avoid Damage of any Type so it should be held up on at least the Frontliners? Or would you advice to not use it?

Some of those give the same kind of boost so they do not stack. I would stick with the ones like Bless that cover the whole group and lasts a long time. Prayer is more power but costs more SP and lasts less time. Save it for "boss battles" perhaps. Many players should probably still have and use "Aid Clickie" bracers from Korthos Isle which would be largely redundant with your spell. IF most players are using the Bracers, which they should, then even the Bless Spell is redundant.

Fire resistance potions drop pretty often. There are a number of low level clickies with fire resistence on them. Once you hit 7th level and your Fire Resist SPells now block 20 pts instead of 10 like they do at 6th level, then it becomes a lot more reasonable to cast the spell than rely on pots since it is so much more powerful.

[MystDragon]

In addition you may be over healing. You don't need to keep everyone at absolutely 100% at all times. Keep an eye on what classes your group is comprised of. Paladins and Rangers can use cure wands right away - not every player will know that, though - so you may need to let them know. Every single character should carry some sort of healing to top themselves off between battles - your actual spell points are far more effective in the middle of battle when it is difficult for them to use healing.

Collectables are your friend. Grab every collectable you can. Some of the collectors give you cure wands for trading in the collectables to them. Especially if you don't have a higher character to support your cleric while you level him.

As soon as you can, pick up a magi hand held item. This is 100 free spell points for buffing that takes a lot of the sting out of buffing when you first enter a quest. Switch to the item before you shrine and before you exit a quest. Carry that item while you are in the city so that when you enter a quest you will have the 100 bonus spell points to use for buffing. It might not cover all of your buffs, but it should cover most of it. They are very common and easily found - look in sceptre, dagger, and staff on the AH. I've seen other weapons of the magi, these are just the most common I've seen. After you buff switch to whatever weapon set you'll be using.

Many of your single player buffs are situational for everyone else - you do not need to cast each of these on every person. Line yourself up with your buffs, then cast single player buffs on people as needed. Stick to group buffs for group.

When shrining - if the shrine is a use it or lose it and you still have spell points left I like to do one of 2 things, depending on situation. Either blow the spell points on healing those who are down hit points so that everyone leaves the shrine full - or wait for everyone else to shrine and spend the rest on buffs for the party - then shrine. The second tactic works better on higher levels as your buffs will last longer and people are more often used to this tactic - just let your party know so that any other buffers don't waste their SP on you when you are about to shrine.

As a goal - one of your highest priorities should be to keep the highest Wisdom item on yourself as you can by your level. More Wisdom means more Spell Points as well as a higher DC on your offensive spells. That being said - lower level cleric damage spells are usually pretty useless in my opinion.

As you level - look to pass off spells that don't depend on your level to wands/clickies. This includes cures for disease and curse, lesser restoration, remove blindness, neutralize poison, etc. Most of these wands will last you practically forever. You don't need to buy them all at once - just as you can. For me - neutralize poison is the most expensive wand to keep as I tend to use it up the quickest.

Gold for Gold - cure moderate wounds wands are the most cost effective wand to buy for topping off between battles. That being said, when your character is richer you might splurge and use higher cure wands/heal scrolls as well due to the time it takes, but even at high levels I still use the cure mod wounds between battles while there is a lull. There is also a 1-2 pt eternal cure wand as a final reward for catacombs. If you have catacombs (don't know if it's ftp or ptp) get the wand and keep it. It recharges on rest so it's a free 50-100 hp sitting in your pack. It might seem minor to heal like that - but it's actually pretty useful.

You need to develop a mercenary edge as well. You can't heal stupid, and characters will die. That being said - as you become more experienced with your cleric you will learn what works best for you. It is possible for a player who is behaving stupidly to out maneuver your healing abilities. If the player is working against the party, then they should be last on your list.

Save every mneumonic potion you can and use them very sparingly - you should never use them at lower levels. You can't buy them from vendors and you might need them to really make a difference when you are higher levels. They will often appear on your end rewards list. If the rest of the list is simply vendor trash, I usually take it to stack up my supply. There will come a day when you will need to sneak in, raise key party members, and use them as a catalyst to save the party from a wipe - trust me, you will know when you absolutely need them.

The fact that you are looking to the forum is your biggest asset to becoming a great cleric. Look through the cleric section and the player guides section of the forum - you will find a lot of great information and tips on playing your cleric by a lot of vets who really know their stuff. Your obviously not afraid to ask for advice and that is a great thing too. There are many other tips and tricks of the trade (but I think my response as gotten lengthy enough )

Good luck and I hope this helps.

[NotoriousTaz]

Thank you very much.

I will try those Advices in the next Group.

You all were of realy a lot of Help.

[MystDragon]

Thanks to all of you. Guess that'll help a lot.
Two more questions.
What about all those offensive Buffs, like Aid, Bless, Prayer and such. They are great, but i figure they are the Reason i run out of SP so fast.
I guess it would be good, to just buff them just before hitting very hard encounters?
And the Shield of Faith for Example. Doesn't it help to avoid Damage of any Type so it should be held up on at least the Frontliners? Or would you advice to not use it?

Look to see what type of enhancement they are - for example: the Aid spell also doubles as a bless, so if you use aid you will no longer use bless. Bless is cheaper, aid also adds hit points - I prefer aid, personally. I don't use the regular shield of faith on party members, but as soon as you get shield of faith, mass - I use that.

Group protection spells are the buffs your should be casting unless the situation warrants other spells.

[biggin]

I have to agree/disagree with a few things here. Once you hit lvl 6, unless you are at a crawl, your buffs should last to a shrine not extended. I also used to cast mass shield of faith, but my opinion on that has changed. Most lower level toons have extremely low AC unless built for it, so the majority of the time it's being wasted. Aid-yes. It helps with attack plus adds a few buffer HP. If your running something with fire in the name, casting a fire res on your melee will save SP in the long run, but save things like acid res for people who either dont carry a pot and get hit with it. Trust me, it isn't hard to watch that damage slowly tick off of someone. I was running Deleras today with a cleric who buffed between 60-70% of their SP from the start. It was a complete waste. With a bard/caster in group, watch what they cast first. Some things get masked anyway. Prayer is for the previously mentioned boss battles.

Collect wands. If someone pops a chest and you see a wand you need, just ask for it. Most people would rather give you a wand to use on them anyway (if they can't use it of course).

Every quest is different and over time you'll learn which ones you can go caster crazy in and ones you need to conserve. But it sounds like you are on your way to becoming a decent cleric.

[phalaeo]

8 - no nukes or dmg spells. Let the big boys handle that

I know this statement was meant to be situational, but it just made me laugh.

[x1372]

Lot of good advice here... I'll try not to completely repeat here.

At your next stop at a shrine or tavern, get soundburst. Its a second level spell with an area of effect stun. Using that on casters and big groups of enemies that can cause severe damage to your party, or enemies that heal, can save you a lot of SP over the healing you would need to do to patch up during or after the encounter. In general, only cast offensive spells that are focused on crowd control, not on dealing direct damage. Command is another useful low-level option, working on a different save than soundburst, though its only single target.

At that level, I would consider investing in some cure LIGHT wounds wands. Yeah, the healing is pitifully slow, but they're dirt cheap and can stop a wipe in some circumstances. As mentioned elsewhere, the cure minor eternal wand could do the same thing if you have access to catacombs. Once you can afford them, switching to cure moderate wands is a good option as long as you don't overuse them and go broke.

Check the pawn shops for a power/wizardry/magi item, and a devotion/potency item. If you can find something useful to you, grab it... these things easily pay for themselves with the extra SP and extra healing. The most likely "magi" (+100 SP) item you can get at the lowest levels would be on a robe, which if nothing else you can use as a swap for your armor at shrines and quest entrances.

If you can get a mass version of a spell, take the single off your bar. Buff only with the mass, and don't give out extra if someone runs off when you say you're buffing. Hopefully they'll learn next time. If you don't know what you're getting into, don't buff much... save it for healing or buffs you'll need once you know what you're dealing with. You're also probably better off getting bless off your bar, and getting mass aid to replace it if you need that effect (and the extra HP don't hurt before a tough fight). Replace it with remove fear if you don't already have it, that spell has a long duration on its own, gives a relatively large boost, and can cure feared players in addition to giving a bonus to saves to resist fear.

If you want one set of buffs that will really be effective if you know what you're getting into, take resist energy once you hit level 7. At that level, it'll be 20 mitigated damage for your choice of fire/ice/acid/sonic/electricity, which can really help if you fight an enemy that relies on that type of damage or are forced to rush through a trap of some sort.

Good luck, and keep plugging away. Once you hit level 9 things may get much less stressful when you have raise dead and don't have to carry someone to a shrine whenever something goes wrong. At level 11 you'll unlock the true power of your cleric with access to both the heal spell and blade barrier, so you have a lot to look forward to.

[dopey69]

Id take that even further and not buff anyone with bulls, bears, eagles, etc. If they want it - tell em to go buy some potions from the Marketplace. Its in Tent city. Or if they have the favor to go get extended buffs from House P.
Only buffs I would hit them with are the ones that make your job easier in the healing dept.

i must say i find if i put bulls on the main tanks in my groups they kill faster there for get hit less there for less healing for me
always good to no what buffs to use where when you are the cleric but always buffed always will

as i said bulls on low lvl tanks = little killers

[Knippers]

Just one thing to add - I usually only extend the buffs on the melees who don't use every shrine. Arcanes, myself and anyone who is using thier clickies (barb -rages/pally-LOH/rogue-lotsOtraps) won't get an extended buff.

Oh and at low & even some mid-levels, soundburst on the mobs around the lead melee makes for lazy cleric healin.

(o.k., 2 things to add)

[Wickedjelly23]

There really is some nice info in this thread. Thanks for the tips folks