+4 holy of pg vs +2 holy burst of pg

[Bolo_Grubb]

which would you use?

[Newtons_Apple]

Burst. At endgame your to-hit bonuses on any decently built melee character won't be broken by the loss of +2 to hit, and the burst will deliver more damage than the loss of +2 damage.

[Gamedog]

+2 Holy Burst of PG

[SteeleTrueheart]

burst of PG
unless we are talking about it on a 20/x2 weapon then I would probably take the +2 damage per hit of the +4

[sirgog]

+4 at most levels, unless you are using weapons with a lot of synergy with Burst effects.

Holy Burst just isn't that much better than Holy unless it's on a Khopesh or Rapier and being wielded by someone with the relevant Improved Critical feat (which, due to the 'free' Keen modifier on Mineral 2 weapons, isn't taken by every melee nowadays).

On the other hand, the +4 gets +2 damage on hits, +4, +6 or +8 damage on crits, and prevents you missing (the 'I always hit except on a 1 myth' only applies to particular low-AC bosses in groups with a good Bard and players with +5 weapons, or to exceptionally well equipped players).

[Krag]

Let's compare +2 enchantment to "burst" extra damage on an Improved Crit Khopesh assuming

1. Every critical gets confirmed.
2. Always hit exept on 1.
3. No DR/immunities
4. No special effects (Divine Sacrifice, FB, autocrit, etc...)

"burst"
4/20*(2d6)=1.4

"non-burst"
19/20*2+4/20*4=2.7


Even under favorable conditions (always hit) burst damage is only a half of what simple "+2" does.

[Monkey_Archer]

Even under favorable conditions (always hit) burst damage is only a half of what simple "+2" does.

Your numbers are wrong...

Holy burst on a khopesh:
4d6 (14) * 4 crits / 20 attacks = 2.8 damage per hit

So on a khopesh (or rapier/scimitar/kukri/falchion which does even better with burst effects) the +2 holy burst would out damage the +4 holy as long as you dont miss. Any other weapon and the +4 holy would do more damage.

I would still use the +4 anyway because very few builds can hit everything automatically...

[Tumarek]

Me stupid, was correct... just the longer version here for people who are as dim as i am.

19/20 (everything but a 1 hits) * 2 (the +2 from the weapon) + 4 / 20 ( the crits of a kopesh ) * 2 * 2 (2 from the bonus and only a X2 multiplier since the base of +2 has already been counted in the first part)

19/20 * 2 + 4/20 * 2 * 2 = 2.7

Holy burst on a khopesh:
4d6 (14) * 4 crits / 20 attacks = 2.8 damage per hit

That part is correct as far as i can see

so we would have 2.7 for non burst and 2.8 for burst.

Not even considering the +2 to hit i would still go for the non burst since there are lots of neutral (and some good) monsters who dont get affected by the pure good at all.



Corrected version... thx SteeleTrueheart

[Krag]

You are right. I should probably get some sleep.

[SteeleTrueheart]

I'm a little confused with the numbers... shouldn't the non burts look like this:

19/20 (everything but a 1 hits) * 2 (the +2 from the weapon) + 4 / 20 ( the crits of a kopesh ) * 2 * 3 (2 from the bonus and only a X3 multiplier since the base of +2 has already been counted in the first part)

19/20 * 2 + 4/20 * 2 * 3 = 3.1

Or am i mistaken?

I think this is wrong, since a khopesh is already a x3 multiplier, removing 1 to account for the already counted base would leave you with *2, but it is late so my maths may be bad.
khopesh is 19-20/x3 normally and 17-20/x3 with keen/imp crit.
so 2-16 = 15 * +2 damage = +30 damage
17-20 = 4 * +6 damage = +24 damage

(30+24)/20 = 2.7

[Tumarek]

corrected

[Bolo_Grubb]

well since it does make a difference it is Khopesh that I am looking at. I already own and use the +4 holy khopesh of pg and might buy a +2 holy burst of pg from the auctioneer.

Now though it looks like maybe it is not worth spending the money on it unless it is really cheap.

[sirgog]

Your numbers are wrong...

Holy burst on a khopesh:
4d6 (14) * 4 crits / 20 attacks = 2.8 damage per hit

So on a khopesh (or rapier/scimitar/kukri/falchion which does even better with burst effects) the +2 holy burst would out damage the +4 holy as long as you dont miss. Any other weapon and the +4 holy would do more damage.

I would still use the +4 anyway because very few builds can hit everything automatically...

That last point is key - it's not uncommon to never miss on a 2 with a +5 weapon, but it's another thing to never miss on a 2 with a +2 weapon. Most characters without Greensteel weapons need a bard with at least Inspired Attack 2 to hit Arraetikos on a 2 on Normal. (Better geared characters can hit him on a 2 without a bard on Elite, but that takes a lot of gear).

[Bolo_Grubb]

well at this point I have to use the +4 as I forgot to bid on the +2 holy burst of PG, lol I knew I was forgetting something

Oh well maybe I will put a frost burst on the +4