Which one is better Drow or Warforged for Rogue 2/Wizard 18 endgame

[Nethain]

I have no access yet to 32 points builds, so points wise Drow has a advantage here, but Warforged has better immunities. Which one is best when you are looking at midlevel and endplay. I take the rogue levels for the skillpoints, evasion and the chance to do more solo (traps, due to high search and disable device skill). Or is it better to stay pure Wizard.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Drow: potential for higher starting INT (therefore spell DCs) CHA (for UMD) & DEX (for AC, & ability to use icy raiments), spell resistance

WF: a ton of immunites, higher starting CON & more toughness enhancements for more HP... and Reconstruct spells

I'd say go for WF, they'll be more versatile overall at the cap & able to chip in with melee if needed without being as squishy - i've seen WF wizards effectively tank raid bosses before with no real difficulty

[Razcar]

You won't have as much use of your trap skills at end game as when levelling up, so pure Wiz is better at end game - at least for party play. But Evasion is very nice. (Soloing with a wiz/rog is lots of fun though, be sure to max your sneaking skills.) If you splash rogue, make sure to take the feat Insightful Reflexes or your Reflex save will be too low for Evasion to be of any use. Also take rogue at first level for skillpoints.

And WF. Self-healing and lots of hitpoints is worth more than the higher Int of drow at end game, IMO. Although a drow wiz/rogue could UMD heal scrolls, it is slower.

[PopeJual]

You have two seperate questions here that I see.

The first is whether you'll be better off with a Drow or a Warforged for a Wizard. The second is whether you'll be better off with a Rogue2/Wizard 18 or with a Wizard 20.

Wizard has one of the best capstones in the game as far as I'm concerned. Getting that discount on Metamagic is wonderful and just about the only thing that could make me give up that capstone is Evasion. Please remember that Evasion is worthless if you are failing your Reflex saving throws, so you really need to take Insightful Reflexes if you're going this route. A Rogue2/WizardX also does make a great trapbuster and can also do very well with stealth if he or she invests the points into Hide and Move Silently. As with my Rogue2/Paladin18, I'm finding that the Rogue2/Wizard18 is somewhat less powerful, but significantly more survivable because of Evasion. You just have to decide whether the loss of 2 9th level spells (you get 3 instead of 5) and about 250 spell points is worth the extra survivability that Evasion brings.

I see the Drow vs. Warforged question in a similar light. Warforged are significantly more sturdy than Drow. They have 4 points more Con on average and only 2 points less Int at the initial build and Warforged can get more Con by spending AP on the Con enhancements. 6 points spent on extra Con in enhancements brings an extra 60 HP at level 20 even if you don't spend any extra points on the Racial Toughness beyond what you would spend on a Drow. Warforged immunities are also nice, but I think that the Warforged self healing is much more important than the immunities. Being able to bring along a few repair wands and being able to cast repair/reconstruct spells in the middle of combat makes me far more sturdy than someone who has to rely on another party member as a healer.

I'd say that the real difference comes down to spell DC vs. self healing. Drow are certainly going to have their spells hit a more often. They're also going to find traps more easily (although I haven't had any troubles with this on my WF Rogue1/Wizard 11 so far). Warforged are substantially more surviveable, however.

Here are two stat distributions to help you decide.

Drow:
Str: 10
Dex: 10
Con: 14
Int: 20
Wis: 8
Cha: 10

Warforged 28 points:
Str: 10
Dex: 8
Con: 18
Int: 18
Wis: 6
Cha: 6

Warforged 32 points would throw the extra 4 points into Strength, Wis or Cha, depending on what you whether you want to melee for easy XP in early levels, get 2 more points on your Will saves or get 2 more points on Use Magic Device.

[Anderei]

I have no access yet to 32 points builds, so points wise Drow has a advantage here, but Warforged has better immunities. Which one is best when you are looking at midlevel and endplay. I take the rogue levels for the skillpoints, evasion and the chance to do more solo (traps, due to high search and disable device skill). Or is it better to stay pure Wizard.

warforge is way better for a wiz, since you can heal yourself, especially in solo mode very important.

18wiz/2rog is IMHO more fun to level, 20wiz more effective at the cap. So since this is your first char you might just go for the more fun way.

I dont consider 28pts so bad for a wiz, he doesnt need much stats anyway. max out in, rest into con, maybe 2 into str so you dont fall unmovable when hit by enfeeblement.

Dont forget to take insightful reflexes.

[Doganpc]

Not that it matters anymore (OP is 2 months old), but for those who look or search I felt I should add a couple things.

First... Drow vs Warforged Wizard also depends on how you play. If you're big on solo play, the Warforged will function better as it functions like an Arcane Cleric. Good spells, Lots of versatility in spell selection, and Repairing(Healing). However, if you run mostly groups and find it easy to play in a group or willing to deal with the occasional bad group the Drow will function better for the group. With a higher potential DC on the spells, when you cast something its more likely to hit and that helps the group as they need your spells to hit.

The Solo vs Group aspect applies to whether you take 2 levels of Rogue for Evasion & Skills too. Immensely useful for a solo character, but in a group if there isn't a dedicated rogue there usually is someone else who can do traps readily available. As a Wizard in a group you should be avoiding aggro and dropping the hammer on mobs/bosses as needed. Not suffering from traps at the head of the pack.

Dogan
*There are exceptions.

[GhoulsTouch]

warforge is way better for a wiz, since you can heal yourself, especially in solo mode very important.

If you have UMD can't you use scrolls and wands to heal yourself with no matter your race or class? Wouldn't it be better to conserve spellpoints by using these...I mean clerics can wear armor and melee better then a wizard can even after their sp is gone.

In that effect is WF really superior to a drow in this build?

You'd use wands and scrolls more then a forged would to heal sure, but that's all the more offensive casting you can do.

[Gol]

If you have UMD can't you use scrolls and wands to heal yourself with no matter your race or class? Wouldn't it be better to conserve spellpoints by using these...I mean clerics can wear armor and melee better then a wizard can even after their sp is gone.

In that effect is WF really superior to a drow in this build?

You'd use wands and scrolls more then a forged would to heal sure, but that's all the more offensive casting you can do.

Regarding scrolls...

Scroll of Reconstruction is the same cost as a Scroll of Heal, and requires no UMD or Cha investment. This is a non-issue. You can buy scrolls/wands of either. One requires UMD, the other does not.

The real benefit of WF is the "oh-**** button", Quickened Reconstruct. Sometimes you'll be getting hit too hard and fast to whip a scroll - you'll fail concentration. In those cases, there is no substitute for Quickened Reconstruct.

Also, WF immunities are very nice for a caster, and the HP boost is not insignificant. A WF Wiz will be looking at over 400 HP at level 20, where as a Drow will be substantially behind that (320ish). The -1 DC vs a Drow will have some effect on you, but IMO it is minor compared to the advantages.

My 2 copper. And yes, I play a WF Wizard.

[Phidius]

And sometimes, a Quickened Reconstruct takes too long to get off timer to save you, and the Quickened Repair spell is needed.

I like having a WF Wizard with Intimidate, UMD, and trapping skills to help out the party

[GhoulsTouch]

Wouldn't a 19/wiz 1/barbarian be a better idea for a wizard though being he wants to stay out of melee and thus more mobile then one who added rogue to their build? I know evasion is a big thing, but so is getting away from mobs quickly in order to put some space between you to cast.

Which would be more preferred by Drow I'd imagine. The extra con and str when he finds himself cornered in rage might come in handy as well.

[Gol]

Wouldn't a 19/wiz 1/barbarian be a better idea for a wizard though being he wants to stay out of melee and thus more mobile then one who added rogue to their build? I know evasion is a big thing, but so is getting away from mobs quickly in order to put some space between you to cast.

Which would be more preferred by Drow I'd imagine. The extra con and str when he finds himself cornered in rage might come in handy as well.

Splashing 1 Barb is NOT EVEN CLOSE to worth giving up the capstone. You can't even cast when Barb Rage is active. Barb 1 might very well be the WORST splash a 19/1 could do.

[Phidius]

Wouldn't a 19/wiz 1/barbarian be a better idea for a wizard though being he wants to stay out of melee and thus more mobile then one who added rogue to their build? I know evasion is a big thing, but so is getting away from mobs quickly in order to put some space between you to cast.

Which would be more preferred by Drow I'd imagine. The extra con and str when he finds himself cornered in rage might come in handy as well.

I've been tempted to exchange Precious's fighter level for a barbarian level, but I don't think the faster movement is worth the feat... don't forget you can't cast while in a barbarian rage, unlike the spell Rage.

If you're going to give up the capstone for barbarian movement, you might as well take 2 rogue for evasion too.

[GhoulsTouch]

Splashing 1 Barb is NOT EVEN CLOSE to worth giving up the capstone. You can't even cast when Barb Rage is active. Barb 1 might very well be the WORST splash a 19/1 could do.

If you are running you aren't fighting and if you are running you aren't going to stop to cast, it's faster to wand whip. Click..If you are fighting hand to hand you either aren't trying to cast, or out of sp and rage would come in handy there too.

Having extra HP is good in that manner, when you are safe(r) you can dismiss the rage.

Not to mention you can use martial weapons on a whim.

[Phidius]

You cannot cast, use wands/scrolls/clickies, or potions with funnels while under the affects of Barbarian rage.

If you are in combat, wands/scrolls/clickies/potions with funnels are of far more value than 20 hitpoints even when you are out of SP.

[GhoulsTouch]

You cannot cast, use wands/scrolls/clickies, or potions with funnels while under the affects of Barbarian rage.

If you are in combat, wands/scrolls/clickies/potions with funnels are of far more value than 20 hitpoints even when you are out of SP.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, never tried to drink a potion or use a wand in a rage before as I never had to.
Knowing that now probably saved my butt later down the road.

[Gol]

If you are running you aren't fighting and if you are running you aren't going to stop to cast, it's faster to wand whip. Click..If you are fighting hand to hand you either aren't trying to cast, or out of sp and rage would come in handy there too.

Having extra HP is good in that manner, when you are safe(r) you can dismiss the rage.

Not to mention you can use martial weapons on a whim.

/facepalm