Human Barbie... lvl 1 fighter? An unbelievable new built!

[99_Alita]

hi there!
This is about Human Barbarians...

I've been playing for a month or two but this is the first time I actually think about barbarians...
I was asking myself...

it's seems to be wrong, since there's no build or guide which even mentionate it... but I still can't figure it out why this should be wrong!

planning on leveling as a barbarian, why shouldn't I start as a fighter? I'd get 3 feats to start with, heavy armor proficiency, shield (even tower?) proficiency (even if not counting on using shields) etc etc etc...

Why is this a wrong or maybe futile path?


plz answer and thank you for doing it!

[AylinIsAwesome]

Heavy Armor prof is worthless on a Barbarian since you're gonna get hit anyway. Using a Tower Sheild is worthless since as a Barbarian you want to kill things, not sit there and take punishment. The only things a Fighter has prof in that a Barbarian doesn't are Heavy Armor and Tower Shields, two things you don't need.

The extra feat, while being an extra feat, doesn't justify losing a stacking +1 to-hit and damage from the capstone, especially on a human where you can get all the feats you need anyway.

[99_Alita]

Heavy Armor prof is worthless on a Barbarian since you're gonna get hit anyway




It's not that I don't believe you, but can u explain me why this?
Is the fullplate useless unless you equip a shiled with it?

[gavagai]

It's not that I don't believe you, but can u explain me why this?
Is the fullplate useless unless you equip a shiled with it?

If you look at your rage bonuses, you will notice that when you rage you gain +4 strength and con, but suffer -2 AC. The Barb rage makes you strong, but it lowers your armor class. As you get better rages, that minus to your armor class gets bigger. That's why many barbarians don't worry about armor -- whatever they gain from armor, they tend to lose while raging.

THat's also why shields aren't very popular. Your rage gives you strength to kill things quick, before they hit you. When using a 2 handed weapon, you do 1.5 times your strength modifier. So if you have a 22 strength (+6 damage modifier) during a rage, with a greataxe you will get +9 damage. If you have two weapons, you can get +6 on the first hand and +3 on the off hand. Meanwhile, you have a worse AC because the rage. So as a barbarian, its usually better to kill the enemy quick than to worry about your defenses.

Also remember that if you take 1 level of fighter, you cannot reach level 20 in barbarian. A level 20 Barb gets an extra +4 Strength and more glancing blows off her/his weapon.

That's why Fighter isn't such a great start for a Barb that plans to take the rest of its levels as a Barb. +4 strength and glancing damage at level 20 is much more important to a barbarian than heavy armor and shield proficiency.

[99_Alita]

SO SAY WE ALL!

kind, clear and complete... thank you!

[99_Alita]

but this generates a new question!

if the AC is not something I should care about, why the builds I see around put DEX to 14? why don't I save those points for a higher CON?



(I didn't specificate: we're talking about a 2Hands )

[Trillea]

So that a +3 DEX tome can get them ITWF and GTWF, not to mention the extra reflex saves.

[blitzschlag]

but this generates a new question!

if the AC is not something I should care about, why the builds I see around put DEX to 14? why don't I save those points for a higher CON?

two things:

a) dex is the attribute that adds to your reflex save. good reflex save is worth it.

b) with 14 dex you leave yourself the option to respec to the two-weapon fighting line (once you found a +3 dex tome).

[99_Alita]

since I won't be using the 2 weapon feats, but the 2 handed fighting ones... it's all a metter of choosing between a +2 reflex saves VS all the (very little) advantages of having a +3 instead of a +2 CON modifier?

still not sure =D
sorry I still can't get what this barbarian must become.. even on the pnp is the class I understood the worst (I didn't understand monks either) , maybe coz I'm coming from ad&d where there wasnt...

[Trillea]

since I won't be using the 2 weapon feats, but the 2 handed fighting ones... it's all a metter of choosing between a +2 reflex saves VS all the (very little) advantages of having a +3 instead of a +2 CON modifier?

still not sure =D
sorry I still can't get what this barbarian must become.. even on the pnp is the class I understood the worst (I didn't understand monks either) , maybe coz I'm coming from ad&d where there wasnt...

If you are going with the THF line, I would go CON all the way. As a human, you can get the +1 STR and +1 CON enhancement, and with the toughness feat the +1 CON enhancement will open up the 3rd tier of the toughness enhancements. Especially if you are still working with a 28 point build. As a barbarian the more CON you have the better off you are because it makes your rages last longer, and of course the more HP you have (maybe to offset that loss of reflex save..)

[honkuimushi]

Also Barbarians get 4 skill points per level, Fighters only get 2. Since your first level skills are multiplied by 4, a Human Barbarian with a 10 Int would get 20 skill points{(4+1[human])x4} while a Fighter would get 12 {(2+1)x4}. The general rule with multiclassing is to take the class with the most skillpoints first.

[tihocan]

THF builds usually don't start with 14 Dex.

[99_Alita]

don't they?

so, which would be a better THF starting point?


Str 18 or 16 or 17
Dex 10 10 10
Con 16 18 17

the rest 8



sorry if I'm going a little "out of thread", but, let's say, this 3d has not been interesting since the beginning ^^

[tihocan]

Str 18, Con 15+ (16+ with wf or dwarf), and you're set. Rest is a matter of personal preference.

[Gol]

don't they?

so, which would be a better THF starting point?


Str 18 or 16 or 17
Dex 10 10 10
Con 16 18 17

the rest 8



sorry if I'm going a little "out of thread", but, let's say, this 3d has not been interesting since the beginning ^^

28 pt pure barb:
18/10/16/8/8/8

32 pt pure barb:
18/11/17/8/8/8 or 18/8/18/8/8/8