Pale Master suggestions

[Solmage]

I was trying to find the Lamannia thread(s) which likely were full of suggestions on how to rescue this PrE but failed to find them, so I figured I'd ask fellow wizards for their thoughts. Here are mine:

Necro touch:
Dmg: 1d6/level
Range: touch,
Meta: Maximize, Empower, Enlarge, Heighten
Base Cost: 10 hitpoints in non undead form, 10 mana in undead form. Cost goes up with meta magics on.

I'm aiming at around 40 health or mana per use, dealing around 250 to 500 damage depending on whether the creature makes it save or not, but at range touch, this is not done without a risk. (On average, about half as effective as polar ray, but cheaper, specially if you don't heighten it and just live with the fact the creature will save for half)

(Cost may need lowering OR casting time drastically reduced to make it near instant, with a lowish cooldown)

Lich Form:
Lich fluff as per current implementation, as well as:
+2 to Necro DCs in general, +4 extra DC vs non death necro spells. (Ie, stuff like blindness, symbols of this and that, curse, disease, etc - might make that stuff worth casting) - Might want to include necro touch in the +4 DC equation if you want the caster to be able to hit for full damage. Leave it out if half damage is preferred.

I would also probably give the lich a touch attack (spell) that used mana and created a hold-like effect, except it should last at least 30 seconds, and have a longish cooldown. Say 15-20 seconds. (PnP liches, once per day, can do such an attack that permanently paralyzes the victim, to the point it looks as if the victim were dead)

At any rate, the lich form would be the "DC casting" form of the pale master. He would use his higher DCs to cripple enemies, and if he needed to do damage would rely on the heightened DC of his necro touch.

Wraith Form:
In wraith form, you manage to infuse negative energy into certain spells. You don't get any bonuses to DCs, but instead some of your existing spells have additional, interesting effects:

- Wail of the banshee: Enhanced by the wailing of the wraith, it's radius increases. (some)

- Horrid Wilting: Corrupting this spell, it now deals negative energy instead of untyped. (Alternatively, it could be made to deal 50/50.. balance would dictate the mixture) (why? to have a mass negative energy attack, and the spell is not that far off thematically...)

- Finger of Death: 1D6/level negative damage on a successful save, enhanced by the pale master enhancements and such.

- Disease: Becomes an area of effect spell

Anyway, these were my thoughts on what I'd have liked to see on this PrE. I don't think the abilities above are over powered vs extra mana and much faster casting, but if they are they can be toned down a bit. My goals were:

- Make necro CC and debuff spells worth casting by making them much easier to land than the insta kills and such
- Provide some negative energy attacks to add variety to a casters' abilities.
- Make some spells which are frankly of extremely limited use (disease, horrid wilting) into useful spells.
- Increase overall power of the wizard class, to catch up a bit to sorcerers.

[bashemgud]

Interesting, and something I would like to see implemented. A problem still remains though, and it's that the devs are just scared of giving too much to the arcane class. We use what, 75% of our spells available? And simply because all of our spells, even low lvl ones, costs a lot of mana when compared to the real impact it has on the fight.

Melees literally TEAR in pieces every single mobs they encounter, and I often only got time to chain 2 or 3 spells at a red boss before it lays dead. Only on elite quests will I feel useful, and not all of them, and it's often because I need to keep melees displaced, haste them and cast a few cloud spells.

We are limited to our mana bar, so we can only be as powerful as it allows us. Let me be able to clear a room full of orange mobs, let me wreak havoc and destroy everything. Because I'll only be able to do it a few times anyway before I need to rest, and become completely useless. And this is what being an arcane caster is all about.

Sure low and mid lvl we can impress our friends with our big crit FW on 10+ brainless undeads. But it stops there when you hit high lvl content. I wish there was a reason to debuff mobs with curse, blindness and disease. I also wish there was a reason to cast dots (damage over time spells), sunburst, Greater shout or Horrid Wilting. But there isn't, as buffing the **** out of the barbarian guy is the way to go.

Anyone played Everquest here? Remember the wizard in your group, always sitting, constantly focusing in regaining mana. And when the melees became overwhelmed, he would simply stand up, and let loose a wave of pure destruction.

[bashemgud]

And about the PrE, because this is what it's also about, I find it very insulting from the devs to give us something so very, very weak. Like it wasn't enough, they had to nerf it too. Like +4 DC would break the game. Like giving whatever DC bonus to a wiz would break the game, because it's only for a set timer of time anyway, and it goes as far as my mana allows it.

Lich should give me 3 min of pure power, incredibale DC to my spells, high crit chance and immunity to a lot of form of dmg. Because I'm a lich after all, and you don't mess with a ****ing lich.
Wraith form should also give some meaningful ability, and I agree with the OP about giving some special and interesting effects to some of the less used spells. So what if some of these can be OP in some situations? It's for 3 minutes anyway, and you're more likely to go crazy on nuking during this time, emptying your mana bar (or almost) and having just enough to keep your group hasted...maybe displaced.

While we're at it:
-Why do I save against inflict dmg spells, this is stupid, was reported on the test server, and should be fixed.
-Why do I have to target myself first before using inflict dmg.
-Why can't I be incorporeal AND displaced. This will break the game, really?
-Why do I have an increase in dmg and critical chance with negative energy spells, when I don't have any negative energy damaging spells.
-Why is necromantic touch so so weak, and totally against the concept of playing a caster. 50 dmg to get in melee range and get a chance of being crippled and beat to death?
-Why do you keep giving us lame pets. Seriously, stop.

I still love using lich form and FoD casters and archers. Yeah.

[ddoer]

it is quite a waste of time to make suggestion because the devs won't listen to you.

Check the Lamannia Discussion forum. there are a few threads related to this:

• Pale Master latest changes
• Please fix Pale Master! Here are my suggestions
• Pale Master review - the first 15 pages are before the nerf

[Aesop]

Putting a cost on Necrotic TOuch defeats the purpose if Necrotic Touch.


Its supposed to be a Direct Damage Mana Conservation effect. Close Range, Single Target, decent damage and most importantly NO COST.

Reason? Casters have no sustained DPS. FIghters etc go all day long and just keep swinging ... and they keep swinging faster and for effectively more damage than a caster posssibly could.

Necrotic Touch would be there to allow sustained DPS... though because of cooldowns and saves lower sustained DPS than fighters etc can maintain. It allows for the caster to be more involved with the combat instead of dropping a CC effect (which likely doesn't work or at this stage in the game) or just buffing and sitting there.

Aesop

[bashemgud]

it is quite a waste of time to make suggestion because the devs won't listen to you.

Check the Lamannia Discussion forum. there are a few threads related to this:

• Pale Master latest changes
• Please fix Pale Master! Here are my suggestions
• Pale Master review - the first 15 pages are before the nerf

People have simply given up on the pale master over there, seeing how didn't fixe many of the obvious weakness of the PrE, nor considered any of the many complaints, but also nerfed the PrE in the end.

The best we can do is to continu talking and giving comments about the class, the spells and the PrEs, and to make people aware that there is a problem with the arcane class in DDO.

Also, the Lamannia forums are dead, so is the server.

[kiaoto]

Your points are very viable. I agree with what you saying exactly. The new epic lvl is joke for casters, CC work very little, all our death spells dont hit, waste a complete load of power on one epic mob and cant kill it. Can you say buff bot? I decided to go arcane archer and use that as dps. Atleast I can do something other than sit there and just conserve power waiting to give someone a renew on their buffs.

[Kriogen]

Putting a cost on Necrotic TOuch defeats the purpose if Necrotic Touch.


Its supposed to be a Direct Damage Mana Conservation effect. Close Range, Single Target, decent damage and most importantly NO COST.

Reason? Casters have no sustained DPS. FIghters etc go all day long and just keep swinging ... and they keep swinging faster and for effectively more damage than a caster posssibly could.

Necrotic Touch would be there to allow sustained DPS... though because of cooldowns and saves lower sustained DPS than fighters etc can maintain. It allows for the caster to be more involved with the combat instead of dropping a CC effect (which likely doesn't work or at this stage in the game) or just buffing and sitting there.

Aesop

This.

Wizards can allready cast mana based spells like dunno, Magic Missile.

If it's 'at-will', then it has to be zero mana cost. Power can be balanced with cooldown, dice roll (1d4 or 1d6 ever 2 levels or 2d8 + 1/level). DC can be made 'static' like 10 + level, so moderate DC and predictable. Spell DC (mob takes half damage) is also a way to balance power.

[Doxmaster]

I think Necro touch is powerful enough, as is. If only the cost were removed...then after I'm out of sp, i'll still be valuable to the group, other than wand casting and leading a hireling or summon.

If there was anything added to it, I wouldnt want boosted damage, or a larger range: it's a Just-In-Case ability, not Disintegrate after all. No, all it really needs is the ability to heal undead. Even if i can't heal myself, it would still be wonderful.

[StormKnight]

Decrease the cooldown timer for wraith/lich forms at each tier or increase the duration of the form, of course the conceal should stack with blur at least allowing the wiz to free up the slot used by displacement for a useful neg spell, eh? negative energy ray?
Need a couple new neg spells too.