Final Delera's Reward on non-VIP

[KoboldTrapper]

As thousands of people have stated. Turbine is a business. Not to put a bad taste in your mouth, but this situation is similar to DDO itself. If you're VIP, and you can't pay for the next X-months, should you be entitled to everything you had? The sad truth is that is not how DDO works. You loose all access to everything you had from VIP that you didn't purchase. All the slots, shared bank, races/classes, all of it, unless you bought points outside of your subscription, then you get to keep the first 4 characters on your list, but even still you may not be able to play them due to race/class that you didn't unlock/buy.

The Catacombs is of similar design, there are like, 5-6 dungeon doors. It's not hard/challenging unless you're level appropriate, or soloing the whole thing. A guess pass (90 min) may not be enough, since you have to talk to the bishop like, 4 times, then fight him. The only real benefit there is that you get the reward from a guy outside.

Turbine has to make money. All I can say is buy them 2 more passes so they can get another full run in. I'm f2p, and always will be. However, when I get disposable income, I'm gonna start buying TP packs and buying content. Starting with 1 shared bank page, 1 character slot, and all the low level adventure packs. Then I'll work on my first drow, or vet character, if not 32 pt. I don't remember what comes after drow from favor.

OP,all I can say is that if you get the chance to spend money on DDO, get enough to buy Delera's. problem solved. heh. If you're friend buys you the adventure pack, then they should be friends enough to buy you another. If not, they actually are wasting TP. No offense.

[Stormanne]

Personally, I've never quite understood a couple of things about the end of the Deleras chain.

1 - Her spirit is free, so she should have "crossed over" and therefore it should be up to someone else to divvy out her rewards for us.

2 - And the point that I think is where the problem lies, why should we enter another quest instance to claim an end reward.

On point 2, I think that they should have Hargo give out the reward, as a way to make amends for his betrayal of Delera. It would also rectify having to enter a quest instance to get an end reward.

[TheHolyDarkness]

The pass says 90 minutes on it when you buy it. What does that mean to you? It means to me that in 90 minutes, regardless of where I'm at in the chain, once I'm finished with that particular quest, I'm done.

Again, I'm not saying that it doesn't suck to not get an end reward, but the point of the guest passes is to let the guest experience the content and see if he wants to purchase it. So, by that standard, and I'm pretty sure that is the standard that Turbine would judge it by, the VIP got his monies worth when he purchased the pass.

False. Enough of your "the VIP customer is wrong" attitude. Or maybe you are saying I should exit their scam, bulk buy premium, and don't engage in getting my guildies alts and reincarnations back up to epic?

Fine. Screw it.

Its not *my* Voice of the Master I'm concerned about. Its the Voice for the premium player (who I happen to consitently run with) getting his so he can get that new character back up to snuff with my mains.

Don't **** off your VIPs. And don't make excuses when ****ing off your VIPs. Its bad for business. Move the end reward giver so that its within the graveyard, but outside that irritating tomb.

-If you successfully zerg tangleroot in 90 mins and the time runs out just as Chief Yarkuch collapses, your bud gets his end reward (therefore, your VIP status wasn't wasted).
-If you raid VoN successfully under the new flag rules and the time runs out just as Vela goes down, your bud gets his end reward (therefore, your VIP status wasn't wasted).
-If you zerg Delera so your premium bud who is reincarnating can get his Voice, and the time runs out just as the necromancer is knocked out, he doesn't get his end reward (therefore, *your* status as a V I FREAKING P was just wasted, and its NEVER cool to **** off your VIPs from a business sense). There is no excuse for this inconsistency!

I swear, I hope you aren't an official representative from customer service, or you are inspiring me to flip Turbine the bird and downgrade. VIP is three times more expensive over the long run than simply bulk buying AP and account options, and you are going to tell the VIP to shut the F up? When all you need to do is move a **** NPC?! What?!!


~TheHolyDarkness Out~

[*Thinking to himself: Calm down Holy. He's not an official from Turbine. Oh he sure as hell better not be.]

[Stormanne]

When all you need to do is move a **** NPC?! What?!!

Holy, regardless of the little three year old temper tantrum you just threw my way, I'm going to go out on a limb here and agree. All they need to do is move the NPC. My point of contention is the asking to ignore the timer on the guest pass. Look at my post right above your little tantrum that I quoted. Personally, I think that the entire grave yard instance should be accessible by all, and just the quests themselves require the pass/adventure pack. And in no circumstance should a quest reward/giver be in an instance...period. That in and of itself would have prevented this whole debacle. I'm not against people getting their end rewards when they finish a quest or chain. I'm against the gameplay/instance/timer mechanics being ignored or circumvented to do it.

[Andora]

The ending of Delera's is bad. It has been bad from day one. Even the ones who would swear blue that it never tripped them up, it has. Move her over by the idiot who doomed her, not sure what super important skill for the game is learned running up and down the hill to get in the quest and to get the reward at the end. This has always annoyed me. Can I do it? Yes. Does it annoy me? Hell yes. With all the silly changes made this one would have merit - for me.

[Xyfiel]

It would be odd for Delera, not to be in Deleras tomb. Maybe read the NPC text. Delera is thanking you. She gives the reward. Could this part not have favor and be free to go in, of course. I am not arguing that point so much as the fact that in general the point of a guest pass isn't to get loot.

Doing Deleras in 90 minutes is not zerging, you failed getting your bud thru in time, man up and pay the price, or learn to zerg. You don't even have to zerg to beat 90 minutes, thats 20+ minutes per quest. Your lack of ability shouldn't make something else free. Get one person who knows what they are doing, and do it in 25 minutes.

[Aaxeyu]

Or maybe get another guest pass?

There's enough F2P content already.

While I agree it is a reasonable request, it is not an oversight by any means. The guest pass has a timer on it for a reason. While the instance in question may be useless except for getting your end reward, it is still part of the chain attached to the timer. Two choices at that point, get another pass or go without the end reward. All in all, it is, in its current form, working as intended. It may be a cheesy nickle and dime intent, but working as intended.

It seems like the point was completely lost to you two.

First of all, your point that there is alraedy enough F2P player content so it would be bad to make the last delera part free, is completely senseless. It's not a quest, just an instanced reward. Even calling it content is plain dumb.

Secondly, yes guestpasses are working as intended, but that doesn't mean that this problem is not an oversight on their side. Trust me, the reason for the timer on the guestpasses is not to hinder people who have completed a chainquest to get their reward.

[Sarezar]

I sent a ticket, and the GM responded quite fast. He gave me an expected answer, which is "that quest is part of the chain, the chain is not free, if your pass runs out you can't enter the quest, it's by design". He did say that it was bad luck to not finish Necro before the timer ran out, but he couldn't do anything about it. Which is reasonable of course.

If we knew that this would happen, we would have tried to do it fast. Our goal was to enter Necro before the timer expired. This is actually something that one can guess, if there's a reason to think about it, as it's based on game mechanics.

In any case, I hope they'll consider my suggestion. Like I said, it's not the end of the world if they don't. For some players it may work as "oh I have to buy it then". For others it may be "nice quest, but this really ruined it for me".

[Durion]

Oh please, put a sock in it man. "Oh hai I'm a mom's bazement troll who getz internetz pleazure from being as snarky, obstructive, recalcitrant and fanboish az pozzible."

Sarezar: I think that's a truly reasonable suggestion, and I doubt the Devs are doing that one on purpose--that's likely an oversight. That can't be a feature--it's got to be a bug. I'm a subscriber so I don't know--can you as a F2P'er submit a service ticket on that?

OH NO, I got a neg rep, what am I to do now? None of my peers will listen to me now. Whatever. Actually, if you read my posts, I don't tend to neg reply F2Per posts and have actually talked positive of them. As far as being a "bazement troll in mom's basement," good try. Actually I live in my own home with my own family. Close though.

As far as it being a reasonable suggestion. No, it isn't. Let's see. In order for a F2Per to make a contribution to the game, he has to spend TP. TP must either be grinded out or bought. Points that are grinded will lead you into the store where you will find that you can't actually earn them as fast as you'd like to spend them. Solution? Buy them. Let him run Delara's (on the timer Turbine has chosen btw) and they get MOST of the way through. What to do, "hey, get me one more pass." More points spent in the store.

But of course, you're right. It's probabley an oversight. Why in the world would Turbine WANT somebody to spend more points? That would just defeat the whole purpose of having them, wouldn't it?

BTW, trolls tend to have 1 little red box by their name. Catch my drift?

And Sarazer, much as it sucks, I'm sure that IS the way they set it up. Sucks, but dish out some TP and move on. You'll want to run it again anyhow. Depending on your build, Delara's has a few items you might see are worth buying yet another pass for.

[BLAKROC]

Or maybe get another guest pass?

There's enough F2P content already.

or use some points and unlock the content.


it's really getting silly on these forums all the f2p's wanting everything for nothing....

[BLAKROC]

Oh please, put a sock in it man. "Oh hai I'm a mom's bazement troll who getz internetz pleazure from being as snarky, obstructive, recalcitrant and fanboish az pozzible."

Sarezar: I think that's a truly reasonable suggestion, and I doubt the Devs are doing that one on purpose--that's likely an oversight. That can't be a feature--it's got to be a bug. I'm a subscriber so I don't know--can you as a F2P'er submit a service ticket on that?

yes waste in game support time on somthing you know the answer to already,, that just makes no sense...............

if you buy deleras you can get in to the graveyard, or if you have a pass, others wise your sol...........................................

[Durion]

It seems like the point was completely lost to you two.

First of all, your point that there is alraedy enough F2P player content so it would be bad to make the last delera part free, is completely senseless. It's not a quest, just an instanced reward. Even calling it content is plain dumb.

Secondly, yes guestpasses are working as intended, but that doesn't mean that this problem is not an oversight on their side. Trust me, the reason for the timer on the guestpasses is not to hinder people who have completed a chainquest to get their reward.

Great idea, this won't open a whole new can of worms. Just as was argued earlier, there are MANY instances where the timer more than likely will wear off BEFORE the end reward can be garnered. "Let's do this on Delara's, so those that buy the guest pass can run the whole chain, get their reward, and be done with it."

Don't worry that once they do this, the DEMANDS for similar situations in CO6 or Catacombs will be flying around once they do.

How could Turbine fix this? By making a guest pass good for a COMPLETE RUN instead of on a timer? Hmmm, wonder why they didn't go that route?

[Durion]

or use some points and unlock the content.


it's really getting silly on these forums all the f2p's wanting everything for nothing....

Thats just it. I have no qualms against F2Pers. But it is always MORE MORE MORE!!!

I've enjoyed this game for 4 years now. I'd like to enjoy it for alot more. I've put alot of time and effort into my toons to enjoy playing them. I don't want to see DDO slide into the F2P realm and slowly die off.

+1 as this trend is getting silly.

If you enjoy the game, why are you so AGAINST spending money to support it??? If it gives you something pleasureable to do in your spare time, will it hurt to spend a few bucks on it? It's ONE adventure pack. I can honestly say I don't know how much the "bundles" cost for TP, but can it really be that much? Is $20 really going to break the bank? If you can afford the computer and internet that you're using to play, surely you can come up with a few bucks to throw into the game.

You want griping? How about this. With the money I'VE put into the game in the last 4 years, if I were to decide to go F2P. Guess what. My Turbine Points? Gone. My world access. Gone. My 10 toons slots. Gone. Is ****ing and moaning going to fix it? Probabley not. It'll be on me to slowly work my way back up, by spending even more money btw.

Sadly, money makes the world go round. Nothing in life is free, you or somebody else is paying for it. Milk it and be a part of the problem or contribute and be part of the solution. The choice is yours to make.

[bobbryan2]

Yes, FtP should have to pay Turbine points at some point in the career.

But the fact is that the quest chain is finished. There's a big difference between wanting a person to buy another guest pass to run the quest again, and having people need a guest pass to turn the quest in and get their reward.

It's obvious that Delera's was made long before FtP was an apple in any dev's eye, and there are no inferences that can be made about what the devs 'planned' with regards to FtP and Deleras.

In short... it's a very reasonable request to allow the quest turn in to be moved outside. Turbine doesn't need to hold end rewards hostage to get people to pay real money. That kind of business practice just turns people off in the end.

[bobbryan2]

Thats just it. I have no qualms against F2Pers. But it is always MORE MORE MORE!!!

So you'll rail against all reasonable requests just because you're annoyed at the number of unreasonable requests?

Try taking it one issue at a time.

[Durion]

So you'll rail against all reasonable requests just because you're annoyed at the number of unreasonable requests?

Try taking it one issue at a time.

I AM taking it one at a time. Thats just it, yes, it sucks for him that he or someone else has to dole out a few more TP so he can get that reward, and yes, Delars's has some very enticing rewards at level.

I'm just saying, that once they open that can of worms, its hard as hell to get the lid back on.

I personally think that its one of those, "yeah, it sucks, but you're going to have to suck it up and move on" moments. Is it fair? Not really. But it just takes one little nudge to get the ball rolling and the ****ers and moaners will be right behind it helping it pick up speed.

[bobbryan2]

I AM taking it one at a time. Thats just it, yes, it sucks for him that he or someone else has to dole out a few more TP so he can get that reward, and yes, Delars's has some very enticing rewards at level.

I'm just saying, that once they open that can of worms, its hard as hell to get the lid back on.

I personally think that its one of those, "yeah, it sucks, but you're going to have to suck it up and move on" moments. Is it fair? Not really. But it just takes one little nudge to get the ball rolling and the ****ers and moaners will be right behind it helping it pick up speed.

So.. you say it sucks, and that it's not fair.

And the only reason to be against it is because of a slippery slope argument? You're not taking it one at a time if you're worried about how this change will affect future changes.

Kinda by definition.

[Durion]

So.. you say it sucks, and that it's not fair.

And the only reason to be against it is because of a slippery slope argument? You're not taking it one at a time if you're worried about how this change will affect future changes.

Kinda by definition.

Actually, you read alittle more into what I said. No, its not totally fair, but its not "unfair" as I'm sure some Mod was sitting behind his CPU saying "Hey guys, watch this. I'm going to keep throwing stuff at them so they can't get it done it time and he can't get his reward."

Of all the purchasable adventure packs, can ALL the others that can be bought be run in under the time limit set at appropriate level? Like I said above, if they were really worried about the End Reward concept of it, they'd have made Guest Passes run by chain instead of being on a timer. There's no bug here, the design is working as intended. It sucks, but it's working properly.

[Bacab]

I have noticed a lot of "more more more" coming from the F2P community. Personally I feel in this situation that his options are either get another pass...or buy the pack. You did not finish on time. Simple as that. Your friend understands the quest and I am sure he was hoping that you would have gotten the reward.

Just out of curiousity; since the VIP friend gave you the pass...did you guys leave part 2 hanging and complete the quest multiple times for the huge XP? I am assuming this due to the "wanting to zerg you to 20 so you can do epic" comment.

Also when you buy things from the store is mentions no refunds and etc...I agree this is a crappy situation, but I kinda feel you have to buck up and move on...one way or another.

To Turbine...if this incident ****es play A and B off...they may never buy a guest pass again or Bundle of TP. They may be incinsed about the lack of their (Turbines) perceived (depends on what side of the fence you are on here)attention to customer service.

[bobbryan2]

I have noticed a lot of "more more more" coming from the F2P community. Personally I feel in this situation that his options are either get another pass...or buy the pack. You did not finish on time. Simple as that. Your friend understands the quest and I am sure he was hoping that you would have gotten the reward.

Just out of curiousity; since the VIP friend gave you the pass...did you guys leave part 2 hanging and complete the quest multiple times for the huge XP? I am assuming this due to the "wanting to zerg you to 20 so you can do epic" comment.

Also when you buy things from the store is mentions no refunds and etc...I agree this is a crappy situation, but I kinda feel you have to buck up and move on...one way or another.

To Turbine...if this incident ****es play A and B off...they may never buy a guest pass again or Bundle of TP. They may be incinsed about the lack of their (Turbines) perceived (depends on what side of the fence you are on here)attention to customer service.

What you're noticing isn't necessarily 'more more more'.

What you're seeing is the difficulty in moving a game where everyone pays and everyone has full access to all content to a completely different payment method.

DDO was not designed for FtP, and as such, there are many many areas (like the end reward giver for Deleras) that need to be updated to be compatible with the new system.

Some of the requests are going to be unreasonable, sure.... but this one isn't.