What race for end-game? Do Instakill like FoD become useless?

[praetor]

What race of sorcerer is best for end-game item finding? i heard drow is not as important since instakill spells (requiring high DC) aren't effective on end-game monsters that resist everything?

Please assume 32 pt builds.

[Visty]

warforged

[praetor]

warforged

er i would appreciate it if you could explain just a little bit why, if not thanks for the input anyway.

[hebularks]

self healing, lots of imunities

[Goldeneye]

Warforged

• Self Healing, Immunities
• -2 CHA
• high HP

Drow

• +2 CHA
• bad AP
• low HP

Human

• Extra feat, extra SP, +1 CHA (AP)
• Med HP

[bobbryan2]

Warforged.

[Robi3.0]

self healing, lots of imunities

Extremely tough. and ugly as sin.

Humans are a good choice as well.

They are tough though not as tough as WF, they get an extra feat which is nice for a feat starved class, they can get the second highest Charisma in game, and they are not ugly. All Sorcs who invest in UMD can self heal WF will just do it better.


P.S. and by though I am talking about HPs

[bobbryan2]

And even more than self-healing... Warforgeds are far more likely to have the necessary stuff to turn into a healer in end game raids, and keep Warforged tanks alive.

Human sorcs 'can' take spells like reconstruct, but it's a bit of a waste to only take for 2-3 quests. WF will have it anyway.

Then combine the HP, self-healing, immunities out the whazoo.

[Rusty_Can]

What race of sorcerer is best for end-game item finding? i heard drow is not as important since instakill spells (requiring high DC) aren't effective on end-game monsters that resist everything?

Please assume 32 pt builds.

Well, I guess that everything boils down to three options:

- drow: higher DC;
- human: extra feature and more skill points;
- Warforged: self-repairing and immunities.

All the above-mentioned options have "pros and cons"; I think it really depends on your play-style and personal preferences.

[praetor]

Warforged

• Self Healing, Immunities
• -2 CHA
• high HP

Drow

• +2 CHA
• bad AP
• low HP

Human

• Extra feat, extra SP, +1 CHA (AP)
• Med HP

how about with respect to actual use of CHA in late game? i understand that CHA is good for DCs and such, but late game i heard that most everything resists insta-kill like Finger of Death, and so the difference is less important. is this true? i appreciate you listing the facts btw. however im also looking for how this applies to levels 16~20, and not just the whole game (where CHA might make a bigger diff?)

[bobbryan2]

how about with respect to actual use of CHA in late game? i understand that CHA is good for DCs and such, but late game i heard that most everything resists insta-kill like Finger of Death, and so the difference is less important. is this true? i appreciate you listing the facts btw. however im also looking for how this applies to levels 16~20, and not just the whole game (where CHA might make a bigger diff?)

No... Warforged. Through the whole game. This is one of those easy questions. You can go on all day about which build does the most DPS under the best circumstances, but WF sorcs are pretty agreed upon.

There are some people who swear by drow... but.. yeah.

[Goldeneye]

I like to recommend WF. The ease of healing yourself is very nice. (also makes good duo-ing teams w/ WF melee's) Your DC's will end up being -2 compared to a drow, but you become very hard to kill since you can reconstruct yourself very very quick.

And end-game, there are plenty of quests that your DC makes a huge different. My sorc has a FoD DC of 35.... (will be 37 once I get my rings) and she has a BLAST in mindsunder/dreaming dark. Sure places like Amrath and Epic don't really lend to DC's as much as buffs/damage, but there are still many many high level quests that a good DC makes a HUGE difference.

[Robi3.0]

how about with respect to actual use of CHA in late game? i understand that CHA is good for DCs and such, but late game i heard that most everything resists insta-kill like Finger of Death, and so the difference is less important. is this true? i appreciate you listing the facts btw. however im also looking for how this applies to levels 16~20, and not just the whole game (where CHA might make a bigger diff?)

Don't shoot your self in the foot by thinking that max Cha is not important. You should defiantly go for max Cha for what ever race you choose. the lose of 2 DCs your get from going WF campared to drow isn't that big of a deal anything lower then that though may cause you some issues. And it is not that DC spells don't work at all at end game they just require caster to neg level mobs before they are effective.

[Phidius]

Scroll healing is all well and good, but there's just something about casting Reconstruct from spell points with enhancements and Superior Potency VI. That and a Docent of Defiance.

I wouldn't say that you should ignore spell DCs - just don't count on being able to kill everything before they can close in on you.

[Ulf]

how about with respect to actual use of CHA in late game? i understand that CHA is good for DCs and such, but late game i heard that most everything resists insta-kill like Finger of Death, and so the difference is less important. is this true? i appreciate you listing the facts btw. however im also looking for how this applies to levels 16~20, and not just the whole game (where CHA might make a bigger diff?)

1. CHA is DC and sp. DC is not just for insta death, its most CC and some damage spells as well. The difference is WF of 2 out of 30-something.
2. CON is 4 base difference and 6 total (after enhancements) so 60 hp at lvl 20.
3. Drow also has 2 more int, thus more skill points.
4. Immunities for sorc at 20 are non issue. Non warforged have plenty of open slots to fit in immunity item. not to mention pots and spells.
5. Drow 2 Dex enhancement
6. Drow AP bad and human only extra sp are both ???
7. Human extra feat and skill points.
8. Human adaptibility +1 in CHA and another stat (likely CON)
9. Healing, human and drow both can get umd esay to heal scroll and rez. Only difference is active spell cast from sp for warforged. Has cost of lost slot (reconstruct espically bad slot, will cost a useful spell).

Rusty_can had best advice, it depends on play-style and personal preference.

Now WF wiz is different story. Almost killed off any other type of wiz.

[Barumar]

Warforged

• Self Healing, Immunities
• -2 CHA
• high HP

Drow

• +2 CHA
• bad AP
• low HP

Human

• Extra feat, extra SP, +1 CHA (AP)
• Med HP

I have a lvl 20 Human Sorc with Maxed CHA and have no regrets. I like having the extra feat and also being able to put +1 into two stats.

Also, with Human Versatility and maxed UMD (yes it is a cross class skill but adds up nicely at 20) I am at 95% on Heal scrolls WITHOUT using one of my 5/day clickies

Also, you ask about Finger of Death at end game. While it is no longer an insta-kill spell, when combined with Energy Drain it is basicially a two shot combo, so still effective.

Also, Wail of the Banshee is fun and effective, just not everywhere...

Barumar

[Sweyn]

Im my personal Opinion, I think Drow/Human is Superior

Heres why..
-My drow sorc will have 385 HP after i get a few items, which is plenty,
- second, the extra DC really helps, when you have a 38-40 DC on wail of the banshee and finger of death, you can kill almost anything in amrath, WF will have a little trouble.
- Third, self healing of WF is great, but it uses SP (not a big issue on a sorc though) and costs spell slots. My sorc has 100% umd on heal scrolls for 170 a tick, and with a good twich hand, that is enough to get out of the brawl and heal yourself. Sure you have to rely on concentration, but with a 50+ anyway, only thing that you have to worry about is EPIC
- Immunities on WF are great, but most can come in items/pots. Poison comes in wands/pots, disease comes in items, but a heal from a scroll will cure it. Immune to hold and stuff is nice, but freedom covers that.

All in all, i just can't justify having a 16 starting CHA on a Sorc, endgame where DC's matter you will suffer. Sure, i would take a WF anyday for farming quests that dont need DC, but most raids require high DC. When my drow can kill/flest to stone things in ToD on first try, while your WF needs to enervate 1 or 2 times, that matters.

People think "Oh its only 2 DC" Yeah it is only 2 DC, but in this game every little bit matters. Now for a wizard, WF is the way to go, but i just can't see it on a sorc