Evoker sorcs FTW. Leave the instakill for the wizards.

[Nick_RC]

Evoker sorcs ftw.

With the capstone, the damage boost from clickies, epic spell storing/bauble, Well timed noxious embers unloading, multiple mana regenning items, sorc PL feat, epic instadeath Immunities and sorc dps lines on the way- u gotta be crazy playing the instakill game... leave it to the wizards.

Having played my human sorc in both roles (instakill and evocation focus) I decided to focus on purely nuking as the gather and blast works really well for the self healing wf I TRd into (In short I prefer the human). The evoker sorc pwns all the way through the levels. Yes the battlefield also.

Couple of points.

1. I read alot of "it's more mana efficient". Bleh. Ur not playing a nuker right if u think that twaddle is true. It might be true if u are killing one guy... But why would u waste time doing that?Herd up as many of them as u can handle - Give them a one two and a possible 3 combo and they are done. And it's just sooo much more fun seeing huge numbers and huge crits(for me anyway). And honestly it's definately more dangerous and perfecting the delicate art of blasting with agro while staying alive is rewarding in itself.

2. DPS sorcs stack with DPS tanks. Something alot of people forget. Melees are brutal these days. Help them out. What I like to do is run ahead grab the aground with a huge ball/chain lightning/DBF quickened CoC(often too dangerous unquickened with the ******** casting animation), bounce around in tight circles (so the melée won't have to run everywhere) and continue blasting. Popping an energy drain and a finger on a mob melee have 90% trounced is inefficent. Stack with ur melees. It's faster.

3. Epic, Red Names and Raid bosses. Don't even need to explain. Shroud with noxious embers up u can put out hellatious DPS chaining evocation spells. I would hazard to guess u can put more DPS on Harry with a properly equipped evoker sorc than near any melée out there. Red names often have trash around them... Blast the redname and the trash takes care of itself.


And a tip for the aspiring evokers-too succesfully nuke ur way through some quests turn empower OFF.(in fact I rarely run with it on it's such a horribly inefficient feat...useful at times or for weak quests.)

On wail of the banshee... I don't see the point(unless ur a wiz) at best ur killing light trash in droves... But who cares about lite trash? Anything u can kill in droves with that spell is something that isn't a serious threat or is somehing that cannot be pasted with DPS.

N

[totmacher]

yeah dbf is awesome, i love it on deckard. been using that sucker a lot.

[Nott]

And a tip for the aspiring evokers-too succesfully nuke ur way through some quests turn empower OFF.(in fact I rarely run with it on it's such a horribly inefficient feat...useful at times or for weak quests.)

I don't necessarily see the logic of this. Are you saying that in all cases you can one-shot without empower and that kills (which makes the extra empower sp a waste)? Or are you saying that in all cases, an empowered spell won't be enough, but in those same cases two non-empowered spells will be enough (again making empower a waste of sp)?

As long as your spell level is 3 or higher (and since fireball is level 3; 20sp; I don't think any spells worth casting don't meet this need) then the 10 (or fewer) sp you spend to empower is a 50% or smaller increase in sp. In other words, the added damage is at a better ratio than the added sp, and so the only time its going to be inefficient is if the same number of non-empowered spells kill the same number of targets.

[Varis]

The reason being a nuker is better then a insta killer is because you're useful throughout the dungeon, not just vs the easy stuff.

Also, going nuker is far less feat intensive

[PyrosianFelicity]

Nukers have more fun, I think. There's something just plain COOL about seeing big numbers and lots of them flying all over the place.

For example...

Ran Stormcleave for the first time earlier today, good group. We get to the boss, and the leader stops to explain the plain to everyone, how we absolutely have to kill some of the rooms first, especially the earth elementals. The plan was to go in, kill trash mobs, and slaughter the elementals.

We enter the room and I start Firewalling giants. I Frost-lance the big one because he looks like a Fire Giant, and I see an "Immune!" message pop up. Okey dokey, found the boss.
So for some reason, he aggros on me. I spring around the room with Haste, staying away from him, and it turns out no one in the party knows how to open the door. The person with the shards was off to the side, and didn't think to try and just walk through the barrier.
After a minute or so of dashing around, I said something to the extent of, "Screw this!" and turned around and blew apart the boss with volleys of Magic Missile, all Metamagic on. Depleted 3/4 of my SP bar and took him down all on my own while the others were poking at the forcefield.

Nuker Sorcs ftw.

[Aspenor]

Bored, Nick? You know we love our nuking. There is nothing more fun or satisfying in this game, IMO, than utterly destroying things with well placed blasts. The only CC spell I have is Web, and I barely ever use it. Yeah, I've got the insta-kills available, but those aren't used much either. I really only have them because there's nothing much better to take at their levels.

[sirdanile]

Pyros... you forget... you're s'posed to be soloing since you got firewall

[solarhead]

I don't necessarily see the logic of this. Are you saying that in all cases you can one-shot without empower and that kills (which makes the extra empower sp a waste)? Or are you saying that in all cases, an empowered spell won't be enough, but in those same cases two non-empowered spells will be enough (again making empower a waste of sp)?

As long as your spell level is 3 or higher (and since fireball is level 3; 20sp; I don't think any spells worth casting don't meet this need) then the 10 (or fewer) sp you spend to empower is a 50% or smaller increase in sp. In other words, the added damage is at a better ratio than the added sp, and so the only time its going to be inefficient is if the same number of non-empowered spells kill the same number of targets.

Empower is 15 sp base. (Empower healing is the one at 10 sp.)

[Rice]

Honestly, if it weren't for all the different little nuances of being a nuker I would agree with you guys. It boils down to:

-Lack of spell selection for high end AoE nukes (ie, > 15d6)
-Travel time which makes some spells just whizz by with no effect, which also leads to...
-Targetting issues: you are not facing the monster who's clearly staring you in the face
-EVASION

All of the crowd-control spells and instant-death spells don't really suffer from any of the above except targeting sometimes, and instead of evasion to deal with you get deathblock. Both nuking and insta-death have their own niches, but I personally think insta-death currently has the upper hand overall. There's no reason not to have both, really (which I do).

I really do wish they would get rid of wail though. The entire concept of a point blank AoE instant-death spell is just dumb on so many levels.

On a final note, it seems they broke Chain Lightning again as of the Thursday hotfix... I haven't gotten it to chain a single time, though it hits the first target all the time.

[Aspenor]

Honestly, if it weren't for all the different little nuances of being a nuker I would agree with you guys. It boils down to:

-Lack of spell selection for high end AoE nukes (ie, > 15d6)
-Travel time which makes some spells just whizz by with no effect, which also leads to...
-Targetting issues: you are not facing the monster who's clearly staring you in the face
-EVASION

All of the crowd-control spells and instant-death spells don't really suffer from any of the above except targeting sometimes, and instead of evasion to deal with you get deathblock. Both nuking and insta-death have their own niches, but I personally think insta-death currently has the upper hand overall. There's no reason not to have both, really (which I do).

I really do wish they would get rid of wail though. The entire concept of a point blank AoE instant-death spell is just dumb on so many levels.

On a final note, it seems they broke Chain Lightning again as of the Thursday hotfix... I haven't gotten it to chain a single time, though it hits the first target all the time.

There are plenty of selections, you just have to know how to use them. Meteor Swarm sucks, we know that, but that will be fixed. In the meantime, DBF and CL work great. Not sure what you're saying in your last paragraph:



of course out of all my casts for these pics, i did get one (only one) of these:

These were all taken this morning.

The facing issues can all be easily dealt with by skillful targetting and facing. I never have facing problems with monsters in the proper area for line of sight. It's only in the rare cases that my target teleports behind me. Of course this can be easily rectified by paying attention to how long it's been since your target last teleported, which I've been quickly getting the hand of (although it still happens occasionally, but still would happen if I were casting FoD anyway).

[twix]

Theres such a thing as a nonnuking sorc :O im shocked.

[arcticwolf666]

There are plenty of selections, you just have to know how to use them. Meteor Swarm sucks, we know that, but that will be fixed. In the meantime, DBF and CL work great. Not sure what you're saying in your last paragraph:



of course out of all my casts for these pics, i did get one (only one) of these:

These were all taken this morning.

The facing issues can all be easily dealt with by skillful targetting and facing. I never have facing problems with monsters in the proper area for line of sight. It's only in the rare cases that my target teleports behind me. Of course this can be easily rectified by paying attention to how long it's been since your target last teleported, which I've been quickly getting the hand of (although it still happens occasionally, but still would happen if I were casting FoD anyway).

I am very interested in knowing how you were able to obtain 400+hp. I cannot seem to get over 170
Edit: Looks like a sweet build

[richieelias]

All of the crowd-control spells and instant-death spells don't really suffer from any of the above except targeting sometimes, and instead of evasion to deal with you get deathblock. Both nuking and insta-death have their own niches, but I personally think insta-death currently has the upper hand overall. There's no reason not to have both, really (which I do).

I see just as many deathward mobs as I do evasion mobs. At least with evasion you still have a chance of hitting.

[Xyfiel]

Prismatic=dps and instakill that bypasses dw, I love it.

[Rice]

The trouble is that there are so few viable damage spells at higher levels for multiple targets. DBF is probably the overall best one, but monsters are often immune to fire at that stage. Chain lightning is pretty solid but has a stupid slow casting animation and seems to have a 4 target cap, although the jump range between targets is respectable. The only other AOE nuke is meteor swarm and that's even more bugged with the sorc than chain lightning, with only a max of 3 meteors standing still and 2 meteors while moving (how this bug is still live baffles me, it's a huge detriment to its efficiency).

Mana for mana, wail of the banshee is simply too efficient right now. I personally hate it because it's so overpowered but also love it because it's so cheap and easy to use (none of that "you aren't facing the target so here's -50 SP anyway"). I personally want to see wail either removed or severely nerfed/changed.

We also need a high level acid damage spell as well. The highest acid spell is acid fog... (2d6 damage omg)

[Nick_RC]

The trouble is that there are so few viable damage spells at higher levels for multiple targets.

1. Ball lightning is great and is my workhorse on the battlefield.Its cool down timer is nice and quick so you can spam it repeatedly. In a prefect world id have another similar spell to work in with it.
2. Cone of Cold has its place. Personally i dont like Cone of cold that much anymore as it nearly needs to be quickened to not leave u vulnerable because of the slow animation (I play alot solo/shortman and gather up large mobs to be most efficient. The slow casting speed of it can be a problem at times).
3.Chain lightning animation/casting speed is not good either but with teh right application of twitch its manageable.
4. Chain missiles do suprising amounts of AOE damage over a large distance.
5. Prismatic Spray has both great casting speeds, great potential for damage (evocation also which helps) Its randomness can offset this tho with resistant and immune mobs.
6. DBF. Best AOE in the game...for non fire immune mobs.


I realise two of the most effective spells cap at 15 dice - but they still do good amounts of damage and get the job done fast. Looking at the epic red dragon helm it looks as if the Tor when it ges epic will provide bumps in level to our 15 capped spells.


DBF is probably the overall best one, but monsters are often immune to fire at that stage. Chain lightning is pretty solid but has a stupid slow casting animation and seems to have a 4 target cap, although the jump range between targets is respectable. The only other AOE nuke is meteor swarm and that's even more bugged with the sorc than chain lightning, with only a max of 3 meteors standing still and 2 meteors while moving (how this bug is still live baffles me, it's a huge detriment to its efficiency).

Mana for mana, wail of the banshee is simply too efficient right now. I personally hate it because it's so overpowered but also love it because it's so cheap and easy to use (none of that "you aren't facing the target so here's -50 SP anyway"). I personally want to see wail either removed or severely nerfed/changed.

Mana for mana its not efficient in shavarath. If you are talking about the retardedly easy dreaming dark and mindsunder quest chains then we are talking about different endgames. Those two lines are not endgame to me - they arnt a challenge whatsoever. Take ur pick blasting or instakill.

We also need a high level acid damage spell as well. The highest acid spell is acid fog... (2d6 damage omg)

We dont need them but they would be welcome additions. A critting acid fog does suprising amounts of dmg. I stand by my nuking and have done all types of content through elite and still much prefer it. Not too mention damage throughput on red names is higher.

N

[Aspenor]

Mana for mana, wail of the banshee is simply too efficient right now.

Absurdly false. Good luck killing more than 1 monster at a time with Wail in difficult content, or even killing just one in epic.

If you mean casting 5 energy drains and one wail (and then praying) is more efficient than casting 3 Ball Lightnings/Prismatic Sprays/Chain Lightnings, then I'd argue you don't know what you're talking about.

In fact a nuker can take down literally twice and many monsters with half the spell points spent in difficult content as compared to somebody spam casting wail of the banshee.

[oweieie]

1. I read alot of "it's more mana efficient". Bleh. Ur not playing a nuker right if u think that twaddle is true.

You're fighting low HP mobs if it isn't true. Chunking through mobs with 5 to 20 thousand HPs with blasts? Dumb dumb dumb dumb. ToD part 1, fire elementals, yes, polar ray them, they can be one-shotted they have about 1800 HP. Hounds, more like 7k HPs. Whats more SP efficient, praying for 5 crit polar rays in a row or energy drain + finger of death?

It might be true if u are killing one guy... But why would u waste time doing that?Herd up as many of them as u can handle - Give them a one two and a possible 3 combo and they are done.

A "3 combo", so you fight mobs with... 1k of HPs? Yeah, with HP that low nuking IS mana efficient, but thats on normal where wail will kill them too and cost less SP to do it. However when you're doing Mind Sunder or Eye of the Titan on elite, even solo, or in a party for epic nothing has anything nearly as low as 1k of HPs except spectators.

3. Epic, Red Names and Raid bosses. Don't even need to explain. Shroud with noxious embers up u can put out hellatious DPS chaining evocation spells. I would hazard to guess u can put more DPS on Harry with a properly equipped evoker sorc than near any melée out there.

Your guess is wrong. Your "hellatious DPS" is fairly feeble compared to what the completely busted melee put out.

And a tip for the aspiring evokers-too succesfully nuke ur way through some quests turn empower OFF.(in fact I rarely run with it on it's such a horribly inefficient feat...useful at times or for weak quests.)

Dur? It's only inefficient if the mobs are so weak you're overkilling them. And if they're that weak, so is their saves and wail is still better.

[Aspenor]

You're fighting low HP mobs if it isn't true. Chunking through mobs with 5 to 20 thousand HPs with blasts? Dumb dumb dumb dumb. ToD part 1, fire elementals, yes, polar ray them, they can be one-shotted they have about 1800 HP. Hounds, more like 7k HPs. Whats more SP efficient, praying for 5 crit polar rays in a row or energy drain + finger of death?



A "3 combo", so you fight mobs with... 1k of HPs? Yeah, with HP that low nuking IS mana efficient, but thats on normal where wail will kill them too and cost less SP to do it. However when you're doing Mind Sunder or Eye of the Titan on elite, even solo, or in a party for epic nothing has anything nearly as low as 1k of HPs except spectators.



Your guess is wrong. Your "hellatious DPS" is fairly feeble compared to what the completely busted melee put out.



Dur? It's only inefficient if the mobs are so weak you're overkilling them. And if they're that weak, so is their saves and wail is still better.

Come back when you know what you're talking about. IQ quests are a joke, and instant-death does not work on epic. Good luck landing wail in Shavarath without 2 energy drains, which is horribly inefficient.

Eye of the Titan elite is easy with crit Walls of Fire.

Guess what does work on epic? Wall of Fire and Prismatic Spray.

Empower is always inefficient, it's simple 7th grade math. It's a feat for use when SP are disposable and DPS is all that matters.

I can see though, that you have a long history of talking down to people that know more than you. Nice red bar.

[maddmatt70]

Come back when you know what you're talking about. IQ quests are a joke, and instant-death does not work on epic. Good luck landing wail in Shavarath without 2 energy drains, which is horribly inefficient.

Eye of the Titan elite is easy with crit Walls of Fire.

Guess what does work on epic? Wall of Fire and Prismatic Spray.

Empower is always inefficient, it's simple 7th grade math. It's a feat for use when SP are disposable and DPS is all that matters.

I agree with your basic point here.

I can see though, that you have a long history of talking down to people that know more than you. Nice red bar.

I have a problem with your last point. Some of the best things I have posted netted me neg rep in fact the recent thread I posted on Air Elementals netted me alot of both pos and neg rep (more neg rep in fact). I do not really care one way or the other just keep posting that is my outlook..