PvP is all DDO is missing.

[Ipokratis]

First of all i do not whine about changing anything.
I play pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons for more than 14 years so i know really well what DND is about.
PVP in pen and paper DND could not exist, since it is really hard to gather many people and do it.
But even this way , we do make events in hotels where many DND fans gather and play PVP.

The wrong thing is word PVP. The correct word would be GVG. (Group vs Group).
If all of you just let people say their opinions you have nothing to lose and you will see that there are many things about GVG that will not destroy the game at all, and will not bring whinners as you call them.

PVP can not exist in DDO cause the classses can not be PVP balanced and i agree that this is the way classes should be. It is a mistake to play 1 vs 1 or 2 vs 2.
But in a party each character can have his role even in GVG.
GVG , means creating dungeons - arenas with Objectives where groups could meet with eachother and have the opportunity to fight. (something like capture the flag but better built).

In these Dungeons parties interact with the Enviroment , but with the other party as well.
After 10 years playing as a Dungeon Master i can assure you that 99,999% of people loved this kind of dungeons.

So what i am saying is stop telling everyone to go play an other MMO.
This game does not belong to you or anyone else, and everyone has the right to tell his opinion.

[r3dl4nce]

GVG , means creating dungeons - arenas with Objectives where groups could meet with eachother and have the opportunity to fight. (something like capture the flag but better built).

There are, as you are saying, the arenas for GvG in DDO. Stop. You wanna play GvG? You can. Everything that is not PvE in DDO, MUST NOT GIVE rewards.

[Ipokratis]

There are, as you are saying, the arenas for GvG in DDO. Stop. You wanna play GvG? You can. Everything that is not PvE in DDO, MUST NOT GIVE rewards.

I know that they exist.
But i can really not undrstand why you do not want people to suugest ways to make them better.
If you read the rest of my post you will see that i suggested, somethings that we have tried in pen and paper DND.
I can NOT play GVG right now because people do not play GVG!!
I just want people to say their opinions on how to make these arenas even better so that more people take part.
Where is the bad thing about this?

[r3dl4nce]

But i can really not undrstand why you do not want people to suugest ways to make them better.

People can suggest what they want, but Devs should not listen to suggestion about PvP. Why? Because devs are limited and devs time is limited. If they should use X hours to improve PvP (used by less than 1% of the playerbase) they are removing Devs time from fixing bugs and improving PvE.

[Ipokratis]

People can suggest what they want, but Devs should not listen to suggestion about PvP. Why? Because devs are limited and devs time is limited. If they should use X hours to improve PvP (used by less than 1% of the playerbase) they are removing Devs time from fixing bugs and improving PvE.

This is what i mean when i say DDO needs players...
Free players do not offer money to the company ==> the company can not have enough DEVS.
There is no point in having 1.000.000 free players.

By helping the game advance in all possible ways, brings more people that are willing to give their money in order to play a game they want.
So by making GVG better does not mean that PVE will be left behind.
It will bring more players , and then more devs. And the game will be able to advance as whole with more people working on it.

People just need to be more open minded and not critisize anything different from what they are used to.

This whole situation reminds me , of all the flaming that takes part when a new edition of pnp DND is created.
Everyone is angry and do not want the edition to change etc etc. But adter some time everyone likes the changes.
I know you all might be used to the game as it is, but making developments, is only good for the game.

[r3dl4nce]

This is what i mean when i say DDO needs players...
Free players do not offer money to the company ==> the company can not have enough DEVS.
There is no point in having 1.000.000 free players.

You know that is VERY VERY VERY DIFFICULT reaching level 20 and having the needed packs only by farming TP, right? Give more packs to buy, more raids to buy, more races to buy (update 7 with half-orc and half-elf will bring lot of money to Turbine) and you have fulfilled two tasks:
- improving PvE in DDO
- earning more moneys
Still, no need to waste time in PvP.

By helping the game advance in all possible ways, brings more people that are willing to give their money in order to play a game they want.

Gaining a number of free PvP whiners while losing the solid playerbase of VIPs (paying every month) who are here and paying for a PvE game?

So by making GVG better does not mean that PVE will be left behind.

Wasting Devs time on PvP/GvG is not using that time on PvE, and don't think that huge numbers of PvP player will come to DDO. DDO is advertised as a PvE game, so it's difficult to bring here PvP players.

People just need to be more open minded and not critisize anything different from what they are used to.

Ever played on a full PvP game? Like Darkfall, Eve Online, Daoc. Ever read the forums, the whines to "nerf this it's overpower in pvp" and so on? DDO does not need this.

[Dragavon]

I think PVP is perfect as it is in DDO now.

I have happily ignored PVP since it was introduced, and I can happily continue ignoring it for as long as I play DDO. I am a happy bunny

I have to admit entering PVP areas a few times though, had to test how much my DR was while shieldblocking on my intimitank once. The poor barb that helped me could not punch through my DR unbuffed though

[uhgungawa]

WOW, I've been so blind. I see now we should have the Devs do more fore PVP so we can have 1,100,000 free players. That'll bump up the revenue

[Ipokratis]

PVP whinners , will never come in huge numbers in DDO.
In the other games you mentioned PVP is more like Spamming spells and abilities.
DDO can not and MUST not work this way.
As i said i suggested created Dungeons with combined PVE - PVP where the party will fight together , solve puzzles, find traps etc etc. Not just the , i see you i kill you by pressing number "1" 100 times fight....
No whinners will play this kind of pvp.

I personally know many people that would come and play again ddo and pay their money if there was something like this.
Some people got bored of knowing exactlly where each monster is in a dungeon , and how to kill it , and stopped the game.
By adding the surprise factor (with an other party in the dungeon) , it will make it more intresting for some players.
And i do not say that all dungeons should become like this. But some could be created this way.

I do not know if in your eyes i look like a whinner, but i believe i am not one.
And there are more people like me. So just liking GVG doesn't make you a whinner.
I do not ask for balanced characters. Each class has its own role and it should stay this way. In GVG dungeons all characters, and their abilities, will be needed.

[Ipokratis]

WOW, I've been so blind. I see now we should have the Devs do more fore PVP so we can have 1,100,000 free players. That'll bump up the revenue

who said something like that??
I said free players offer nothing to the game.

[platonicx]

DDO isn't balanced for PVP. End of discussion.

Did it ever occurred to anyone that PvE could remain untouched and just PvP be changed? There is a lot of games where PvP mechanics are TOTALLY different then PvE. Basically every skill spell would have different description in PvP ... it would require massive coding and a lot of work for something which ddo is never going to be imho but its the best possibility for ddo to have PvP in any way.

The best PvP now is to grease people into a trap xD

[KillEveryone]

I don't play for PvP. I like the PvE experience.

I've not been happy with the nerfs as it is but if PvP became a bigger part of the game, they will nerf all classes to balance things because PvPers will whine about how certain classes pwn them. This cycle will continue because there will always be a dominant class.

I don't want my characters nerfed for PvP.

Even if they could keep PvP separate from PvE, they will mess up somewhere and my character will get nerfed in PvE until they decide to fix things. I don't want that to happen either.

I also don't want to be ganked. If they implement a broader PvP set up here, players will start spawn camping and gank other players. We don't need that. That will only drive away players.

There are plenty of fine games with PvP. Go play them. This game is set for PvE and that is how it should be.

[Hendrik]

By battlegrounds I would mean a small portion of a wilderness area for PvP with fixed amount of players.
Also, if there was a decent way to spectate the matches in the pvp zones (non-brawl ofcourse) and a leaderboard that would assign points whether the match is "rated" or "unrated" which can be seen on a global server leaderboard.
If it has failed, then they should try and unfail it. And if all else fails - then give up. Currently it looks like they had something going on, then just stopped improving it until people forgot it ever existed and then moved on to PvE content.

You mean like our current Arena matches that are available?

[Boromirs]

PvP will open up an entirely "new" part of the game. If DDO can be measured in TP's, then DDO will be worth 100 TPs and if you add a fully functional PvP system it will be then worth 200 TPs.

[jamvaru]

This is the best thread necro that I've seen in quite a while

and also a good point by TP guy, TP is valuable

I'd like to see a separate PvP server, or a dedicated ranking system with team placement by level and rank, or perhaps just one or both, user choice

there need be nothing other than a functioning playable system for PvP that unifies players across all servers

[Waukeen]

No deal.

Any additional dev hours wasted on PvP are wasted hours in the opinion of 95% or more of the player population.

[jamvaru]

pvp should be considered not discarded
many more people will play ddo, for money, when pvp is better

[flynnjsw]

pvp should be considered not discarded
many more people will play ddo, for money, when pvp is better

Wake up, it's time to go to school.

[likuei]

Please. no more work or effort for PVP. IT is a great place to try out spells and weapon affects, other than that, leave it the way it is.

[Rogann]

Getter done