PvP is all DDO is missing.

[Bracosius]

Pvp has no place in d&d. I fail to see the point.

Why? Because it doesn't interest you? I don't like collectibles, should they remove them?

The point is PvP can be enjoyable. When all you run are static quests and you always know there will be 2 ogres, and they will always run right at you, and they always need a 16 to hit, and they always...get the point?

In PvP there is an elemant of surprise and enjoyment that is impossible to duplicate with computer AI. I don't want the entire system changed to accomadte PvP, far from it. But I do think some improvements could be made and it could add another area of enjoyment for the player base.

But since you fail to see the point I suppose it doesn't matter.

[Visty]

When all you run are static quests and you always know there will be 2 ogres, and they will always run right at you, and they always need a 16 to hit, and they always...get the point?

you always know there will be 2 casters, and they will always kill you right away, and you will never even reach them, and you never..., and they always, .....get the point?

[Return_To_Forever]

you always know there will be 2 casters, and they will always kill you right away, and you will never even reach them, and you never..., and they always, .....get the point?

Lol, is the point that the current system needs love? Yeh, that's what he is saying.

[Visty]

Lol, is the point that the current system needs love? Yeh, that's what he is saying.

no, the point is that it would need huge balancing and nerf acts to make pvp fun

[gavagai]

Lol, is the point that the current system needs love? Yeh, that's what he is saying.

Needs more than "love" to make interesting PvP where the game has insta-kills and 500 DPS characters with 500 hps.

It would take a fundamental overhaul of how combat worked and what gear we had.

[pregnable]

I do not mind pvp balance if it does not stray far from dnd. It should not be a pressing matter though.

Would be nice if Hide and Invis worked in pvp(still not working right?).

I like pvp the way it is now though... casual + ganking.

They could make a future adventure pack with a big tavern pvp arena in the center of town, so that people could mess around and watch each other fight.

That would be fun and I would not think it would bother anyone.

[Bracosius]

no, the point is that it would need huge balancing and nerf acts to make pvp fun

Started my own thread, issue addressed there. I don't agree with the OP on what needs to be done. But I do agree improvements could be made.

[Return_To_Forever]

Needs more than "love" to make interesting PvP where the game has insta-kills and 500 DPS characters with 500 hps.

It would take a fundamental overhaul of how combat worked and what gear we had.

Gav I do appreciate your fair input on this, as you have put forth effort to not condescend, unlike so many others who do not even try to put forth valid reasons against PVP balance in this game.

But first and foremost a long look and diagramming of the current metagame would need to take place, so that common threads could be found, in order to change the big picture with only a couple changes. Buffs in pvp areas, that are auto granted is one way to go about this, but if monster proportion is our true balance then its the Devs who have the real numbers for the balancing. eg Elite monster stats.

I do not pretend to know the answer to this, I have been here only to ward off the silly combatants of PVP, cause I frankly got tired of the pointless discouraging and belittling of people interested in other types of game play.

Suffice to say the balance for PVP in any game is a bit out of whack, I have never heard of a PVP system without OP skills, classes, and/or interactions. These things do not have to be perfect to be a hell of a lot of fun, especially since in this game it would not be the main focus, or part of your character progression for PVE.

So yeh, we agree, if you are saying it could take a lot, a lot of love and would be hard, but if you are arguing that its impossible or pointless then I guess we don't.

[19BangoSkank19]

DDO isn't balanced for PVP. End of discussion.

Why must all the DDO PvE'rs be instantly closed to the idea of PvP development.
It is an unfortunate when the community cannot even engage the idea
of innovation into this aspect of the game. The above quote is but one example.
Whenever even the whisper of PvP development comes up, it gets drowned by the same
Forum Ignorance.

[19BangoSkank19]

Gav I do appreciate your fair input on this, as you have put forth effort to not condescend, unlike so many others who do not even try to put forth valid reasons against PVP balance in this game.

But first and foremost a long look and diagramming of the current metagame would need to take place, so that common threads could be found, in order to change the big picture with only a couple changes. Buffs in pvp areas, that are auto granted is one way to go about this, but if monster proportion is our true balance then its the Devs who have the real numbers for the balancing. eg Elite monster stats.

I do not pretend to know the answer to this, I have been here only to ward off the silly combatants of PVP, cause I frankly got tired of the pointless discouraging and belittling of people interested in other types of game play.

Suffice to say the balance for PVP in any game is a bit out of whack, I have never heard of a PVP system without OP skills, classes, and/or interactions. These things do not have to be perfect to be a hell of a lot of fun, especially since in this game it would not be the main focus, or part of your character progression for PVE.

So yeh, we agree, if you are saying it could take a lot, a lot of love and would be hard, but if you are arguing that its impossible or pointless then I guess we don't.

Good points. Much better than the 'PvP is not welcome here. End of Discussion' posts.

[flynnjsw]

Why must all the DDO PvE'rs be instantly closed to the idea of PvP development.
It is an unfortunate when the community cannot even engage the idea
of innovation into this aspect of the game. The above quote is but one example.
Whenever even the whisper of PvP development comes up, it gets drowned by the same
Forum Ignorance.

PvP development leads to time taken away from PvE development. PvP balance leads to PvE inbalance. If you can disprove either this, or that there is some silent majority in THIS game, then you will have an argument. Until then, quit beating on that dead horse.

[19BangoSkank19]

PvP development leads to time taken away from PvE development. PvP balance leads to PvE inbalance. If you can disprove either this, or that there is some silent majority in THIS game, then you will have an argument. Until then, quit beating on that dead horse.

Why MUST that mean time taken away from the PvE? Why not assign a group for
PvP development and be done with it? The resources taken do not have to be
significant. It just should be invested into much more than what is currently being
put into it.

[flynnjsw]

Why MUST that mean time taken away from the PvE? Why not assign a group for
PvP development and be done with it? The resources taken do not have to be
significant. It just should be invested into much more than what is currently being
put into it.

To address just the issue in red; there are already complaints that there are not Devs enough in the game to deal with bugs already in the game, create new (PvE), and everything else; exactly where would this group from that would not take resources away from another part of the game? Would you be willing to donate enough maoney to bring in this group and pay them?

[Sylvenon]

Make hide & move silently and spot & listen checks matter in pvp, and i would be thrilled.

[LILCylon]

Although masked in jest, this is what I was saying.

1. Get your facts straight before you post a suggestion.

2. Scrolls are inexpensive at worst. Most are useless. And many fights don't last long enough for any amount of heal scrolls to be used.

3. Before making a suggestion, try to get your names right. People are more likely to consider your suggestion if you have the correct terminology ("guilds" instead of "clans"), spelling ("I" instead of "i") and grammar ("more fun" instead of "funner")

Now all You're trying to do is suck up to someone who DOES have a valid response. And no one cares what you call a group of people: some call it guild, others call it clan. What dif? It's like the saying Potato (Po-tay-to) or Potato (Po-tah-to). Maybe spelling does show you are more proficient at proving a point, but on the forum it really isn't all that important.

[KKDragonLord]

Why MUST that mean time taken away from the PvE? Why not assign a group for
PvP development and be done with it? The resources taken do not have to be
significant. It just should be invested into much more than what is currently being
put into it.

That could work, although it would be a different game and would maybe require people to pay for it separately, which is not a bad idea.

[wooshrow]

I really fail to see why a game cannot be parameterized with different balance settings: one for PvE and one for PvP. The entities are all the same. You should be able to reuse much of the engine. Most modern programming language offers that kind of flexibility... unless if ddo is implemented in C...

Anyway, the way it is now, PvP is really not that bad. But you need time to learn your PvP art. You need to know well what your strength, and weakness of opponent classes, and learn to exploit the layout of the arena. You will discover that each class has its own best strategy, and what kind of opponents you can deal with, and which you should avoid. A fighter shouldn't obviously just lumbering on an opponent sorcerer with his huge two hander; he'll be held, and burned to dust before he even come close to swinging his sword. No, he should jump, sprint, and strike fast. Use trip or stun on the sorcerer, then she is yours. Similarly, a smaller archer is no match for such an attack by the fighter. But if she continuously has her running and jumping boost active she can outmaneuver the fighter, and shoot him to dead.

But ... i have no tips for rogue. The class is too weak in PvP, because most seasoned PvPers will have 100% fortification, which means rogues cant sneak-dmg them. It could be, if we can have a different balance setting for PvP, that with respect to rogue, fortification is capped to 50%.

[Uska]

Why must all the DDO PvE'rs be instantly closed to the idea of PvP development.
It is an unfortunate when the community cannot even engage the idea
of innovation into this aspect of the game. The above quote is but one example.
Whenever even the whisper of PvP development comes up, it gets drowned by the same
Forum Ignorance.

Because time spent on PvP development is time taken away from what the majority wants the pvp fans never seem to get that also it would take major changes to game to balance pvp if they do that it is sure to bug and again affect us.

Also calling people ignorant because they disagree with you about the value of pvp isnt cool -1

[Chai]

I see the way people moan around these parts when updates change the effectiveness of their build. Now add into this that updates would need to occur weekly instead of once every few months for class balance issues to be addressed.

DDO would have needed to be a PVP oriented game from the start for this to even work. I already see too much griping about nerfing things from classes because someone cant beat them, and the thing they want nerfed is the same thing that makes the class even worth playing. (OMG nerf manyshot, because I cant beat it in PVP!!)

Imagine arcane archers sans many shot. Some of the most rediculous suggestions have come from people who think somone is too powerful because they cant be beat in PVP.

Dungeons and Dragons is not a class balance focused game. Live with it.

[cdbd3rd]

Necroing once is just "being curious"...
Necroing again, might be time to look for a support group for that 'alternative lifestyle choice'.