Best melee dps

[bobbryan2]

It seems that alot of people fail to grasp the point of the DPS calculator.
See it as "Potential DPS estimator for different character builds, all other things being equal".

Which is exactly why they have very little meaning.

Hell... kill counts have more meaning than DPS calcs... at least kill counts are dealing with actual facts.

[Aaxeyu]

Why do you bother with stuff like this? This is one of the many reasons that no one takes your advice seriously anymore.

I was holding back with that one. Hypocrits bothers me, even on a forum.

Yeah, you know I have and that being snide or insulting won't impress me or support your point in any way, right?

No, I don't think you have.

Oh trust me, I'm not trying to impress you, I lost all respect for you in our last discussion.

[Aaxeyu]

Which is exactly why they have very little meaning.

Hell... kill counts have more meaning than DPS calcs... at least kill counts are dealing with actual facts.

So you are saying that DPS calcs are next to meaningless when comparing two builds DPS potential?
There are not so many mysterious and unknown factors in this game as you may think...

[Hadrian]

I was holding back with that one. Hypocrits bothers me, even on a forum.



No, I don't think you have.

Oh trust me, I'm not trying to impress you, I lost all respect for you in our last discussion.

You tend to have good ideas in the background but you just come at them with pure ego and no logic once you begin to discuss them. Facts become less important to you than getting in the last word or trying to make someone else look foolish.

You could add a lot to the DDO community if you could get over that. It's a shame that you've become a joke on these forums, but look at the content of the quote above and its no wonder.

[Aaxeyu]

Sure, that's right. No one understands you. It can't be that we want a more practical, actually relevant to the game we play answer that isn't based on dozens of perfect situational assumptions suited to how you like the game to be played.

Nope, there are still plenty of people who understand the use and value of a dps calc.

By "dozens of perfect situational assumptions suited to how you like the game to be played", do you mean connecting the swing with the target?

The DPS calcualtor is relevant to the game. Perhaps if the DPS numbers were displayed as an index(ish) you would understand.

[Aaxeyu]

You tend to have good ideas in the background but you just come at them with pure ego and no logic once you begin to discuss them. Facts become less important to you than getting in the last word or trying to make someone else look foolish.

Facts? You know, I'm usually the only person who actullay use facts in discussins I'm involved in around here.
I respect people who have more than anecdotes and hunches behind their claims. Just look at DragonmageT posts in this very thread, there are no facts there, only dilusions.

One more thing, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean that there is no logics there.
You should take a look at yourself before you talk about ego.

[bobbryan2]

So you are saying that DPS calcs are next to meaningless when comparing two builds DPS potential?
There are not so many mysterious and unknown factors in this game as you may think...

No, I'm just saying that 2% differences in potential DPS are nothing concerned with the potention 20+% differences that exist with gear disparities.

"All other things being equal"

Things are never equal in this game. But Kill counts have a better shot at saying who has DPS between 2 people in a group than a DPS calculator of both builds.

And I break out facts and stats in plenty of threads. I'm not bringing them up in this thread, because this is one case when the 'facts' can lead you down the wrong road. On top of gear and playstyle.... simple combat situations are too diverse for one build to be end-all be-all of DPS.

Barbs and fighters are both amazing at doing consistent DPS. Paladins and Rangers are capable of extreme DPS, but are limited to evil creatures (outsiders more specifically) and a handful of favored enemies respectively.

The same people that are doing killer DPS on Harry might not be the same people putting up the insane numbers on the Helion in Part 2. Just look at how much rogue DPS suffers going from the jailor to harry to the abbot.

[shenthing]

I can't recall how many similar posts to the OP I've seen on the forums, and a number of times, it all comes down to one thing. What is your playstyle? I am amazed at all of the bickering here (ok maybe not) because we're talking DPS. When a party wants DPS, we don't need the maximum DPS the game allows, we need better than average if we can get it. Ac build rogue splashes and tanks can even fill this slot a number of times.
The point is, if you want to play a barbar, play it, play with the build, work on your gear, and once the new hearts are available... try multi-classing. A decent party doesn't need to get the best DPS and if you are looking for solo, then you need to balance your DPS with your survivability which will mean a little less DPS.
One last thing... I don't suggest relying on boost for your damage output and crit or bs damage is fine for extra damage on a bunch of trash mobs as long as they aren't undead or constructs.

[Hadrian]

One more thing, just because you don't understand something doesn't mean that there is no logics there.
You should take a look at yourself before you talk about ego.

All you do is state the Truth according to Aaxeyu and then belittle anyone who disagrees. It gets old.

Facts? You know, I'm usually the only person who actullay use facts in discussins I'm involved in around here.

That's because people stopped taking you seriously a long time ago.

Anyone who is slightly familiar with the game can tell for themselves that there are a large number of different situations that greatly affect the DPS output of most characters. The DPS rankings are a lot more complicated than a single answer. Barbarians tend to be able to cover a lot of situations because their DPS is high, sustainable, and works in most situations. So it's a good generic answer, but there is no real single answer.

[Xyfiel]

Pfft, everyone knows AA Ranger 20 is the best dps. What, 20 seconds isn't a reasonable dps calc? I am working on hitting a 400 dps ranged character. I think it is possible, but requires the Axer package of items/buffs and some TR.

[Aaxeyu]

No, I'm just saying that 2% differences in potential DPS are nothing concerned with the potention 20+% differences that exist with gear disparities.

Well, obviously.

"All other things being equal"

Things are never equal in this game. But Kill counts have a better shot at saying who has DPS between 2 people in a group than a DPS calculator of both builds.

See, this is exactly what I was talking about: Some people don't understand what the calc is made for.

Using it to compare your DPS with your teammates is not what it's for. The point is to compare different builds so you know with which you would do highest DPS.

"And I break out facts and stats in plenty of threads. I'm not bringing them up in this thread, because this is one case when the 'facts' can lead you down the wrong road. On top of gear and playstyle.... simple combat situations are too diverse for one build to be end-all be-all of DPS.

Barbs and fighters are both amazing at doing consistent DPS. Paladins and Rangers are capable of extreme DPS, but are limited to evil creatures (outsiders more specifically) and a handful of favored enemies respectively.

The same people that are doing killer DPS on Harry might not be the same people putting up the insane numbers on the Helion in Part 2. Just look at how much rogue DPS suffers going from the jailor to harry to the abbot.

It's not like I claim any build to be best in every single situation, rather overall higher DPS than others. I always look at 0%, 50% and 100% fort, and also see how much different builds are affected by DR.
One build might be ahead vs 100% fort, but behind at 50% and 0%. Because there are much fewer 100% fort mobs my conclusion would be that the other build was a better dps build.

All scenarios you mentioned can easily be measured in the calc btw.

[Hadrian]

See, this is exactly what I was talking about: Some people don't understand what the calc is made for.

Using it to compare your DPS with your teammates is not what it's for. The point is to compare different builds so you know with which you would do highest DPS.

That's not what people are doing. What people are trying to get across is that no one is using your calculations for anything because they don't apply to the reality of the game play. That's not getting across to you for some reason.

[TechNoFear]

Remember 1 HP damage per swing == 3-4 DPS.

5 mins is EXACTLY the amount of time a fighter can keep up the short term buffs that give fighters more DPS than other classes.

Look here: http://community.codemasters.com/for...d.php?t=393789

That post was last updated in Nov 09.

A few days ago I looked at Aaxeyu's numbers for THF DPS and found many errors/mistakes/ommissions including;

Paladin was not using Bladesworn or Madstone.
Fighter had impossible to reach Str
Time to activate for DM was too long
DS was being calculated incorrectly
ES was being calculated incorrectly
Paladin had extra effect damage
Paladin base damage was incorrect.

[Aaxeyu]

That's not what people are doing. What people are trying to get across is that no one is using your calculations for anything because they don't apply to the reality of the game play. That's not getting across to you for some reason.

And what I am trying to get across is that the calcs works perfectly well to compare different builds in different situations.

What game do you play, if the calcs don't apply to it? Can certainly not be DDO.

Give up your ideas of the vast and mysterious unknowns that alter the ingame result completely different for every character. The game is much simpler than that.

And just because you draw aggro on your finesse build doesn't mean that you wouldn't have done even higher DPS on a build with more strength.

[Quikster]

And just because you draw aggro on your finesse build doesn't mean that you wouldn't have done even higher DPS on a build with more strength.

Not sure that really is relevant here, though it might be an admission of some sorts.......

[TechNoFear]

And what I am trying to get across is that the calcs works perfectly well to compare different builds in different situations.

Show me how you calc the total DPS done to Sinvala on solo for a 70 AC monk vs a 40 AC fighter. [Sinvala has ~+40 to hit]

Your DPS would show the fighter winning, where as we all know the Monk would be the only one with a chance of surviving long enough to kill the dragon.

[Aaxeyu]

Show me how you calc the total DPS done to Sinvala on solo for a 70 AC monk vs a 40 AC fighter. [Sinvala has ~+40 to hit]

Your DPS would show the fighter winning, where as we all know the Monk would be the only one with a chance of surviving long enough to kill the dragon.

That would be completely pointless.

[TechNoFear]

My point being; you only calculate peak DPS (the maximum possible, even if only for one second).

This means your data applies to an extremely limited set of actual in game situations.

It is similar to saying the best racing car is the one with the highest top speed, ignoring the fact it can't turn a corner.

I am glad that someone pointed out those mistakes, as it's hard to spot em all.

Remember all these errors still exist in the data posted in the Codemaster forums.

As to the rest; I suggest people read the thread and make up their own minds.

[Bacab]

Can not help but notice no one is coming to defend pure MNKs using kamas or handwraps...

On a serious note. I am planning on rolling a WarForged melee of some sort soon (I mainly play casters), and I was curious about to build. I was thinking a 2WF Barb (using Deathnips and Mineral Heavy Picks because I just want to use something other than Khopesh) Or a "Monster" build (Same weapons primarily). I was thinking that with Frenzy on I could get a ton of dmg in, but I also like the whole haste build of the FTR hast bonuses and Tempest alaclarity. My other question is: Is it worth Sacrificing STR for a point for a point or 2 of DEX to qualify for S2WF on the Barb?

[zealous]

To do this in a spreadsheet requires the use of more complex functions and requires more than just masses of nested 'IF()' statements Aaxeyu uses (which make the calculator impossible to debug).

Would using more complex functions make it more readable? Yes
Is it required? No
Can you copy/paste the functions from the cells and indent them to increase readability? Yes

Can someone with 20 years experience of programming write a program doing that for them?


Would it be trivial to implement proper code to do the same thing as the spread sheet as long as you have at least some programming experience? Yes
Would it be a lot of work to make sure the numbers that go in there are correct? Yes
Would it be a lot of work to keep it up to date and explain the game mechanics to people disbelieving it? Yes

If you know the game mechanics you can save time by going off the spreadsheet/posted calcs. Checking that they're correct is trivial. Modifying them to what standards you prefer is trivial.

If you don't know the game mechanics well enough to do your own calcs it's useful and easily accessible.

One should also keep in mind that a difference of x DPS isn't necessarily a significant difference.
---

Can not help but notice no one is coming to defend pure MNKs using kamas or handwraps...

Well going off of post #114 in the thread Aaxeyu referenced, a monk with some multiclassing would "beat" both fighter and barb. That's kind of silly though considering the assumptions one must make for the monk.