Best melee dps

[DragonMageT]

No, i'm not wrong about that. Care to show some facts to back your statement up with?
HAHAHAHAHAH, yea we all know that highest crits equals highest DPS!!!
Seriously, get a clue.

I gave you facts, in game numbers. The post was best melee DPS. I am showing you best DPS. Back up you statement. Tell me that your THF fighter can score a crit. with over 510+.
Non-crits. 6d6 from full frenzy and str bonuses is still more than a fighter is doing.
SERIOUSLY MAN , you need to get a clue and quite informing new players to reroll their toons when they are on the correct path. Who should get banned, your telling a new player to reroll, Give me a break. Tell them to create a new toon then compare the 2 toons against each other.

Strange, as my fighter always gets aggro from the barbs. Funny how that works.

I guess your not on my server or never been in a group with my Barb. It is funny how that works.
And I guess if you doing your DPS math over 5 minutes, your in some low DPS groups.
Gssh, 5 minutes /yawn

The question from the OP was about best melee DPS not about how much damage a specific toon takes or how long they can last or healing of that toon. And in most raids, over healing is done on the main tank. It also helps to rage to 899hp, higher with other buffs.

[Aaxeyu]

Laughable.... 5 minutes. I have been in many TOD runs where haste didn't run out before end boss was dead. Other raids also, Shroud part 5, etc. Seems a bit long.

That's not the point. If I wanted to, I could calc only the 20 seconds haste boost is active and claim that to be a fighters DPS, but that wouldn't be fair, now would it?

The 5 minutes was set as a standard like a year ago, when people were complaing that The Monster was only good when the boosts were up and running.

If you have a better time in mind, and can actually motivate it, I'm all ears. But until then you can shut up.

However, in the context of a kensai and a barb, what difference does it makes if it's 2 minutes or 5 minutes?!

[Aaxeyu]

I gave you facts, in game numbers. The post was best melee DPS. I am showing you best DPS. Back up you statement. Tell me that your THF fighter can score a crit. with over 510+.
Non-crits. 6d6 from full frenzy and str bonuses is still more than a fighter is doing.
SERIOUSLY MAN , you need to get a clue and quite informing new players to reroll their toons when they are on the correct path. Who should get banned, your telling a new player to reroll, Give me a break. Tell them to create a new toon then compare the 2 toons against each other.

All you gave me was your crit number. But guess what, DPS is not all about critting high.
You can't ignore crit range, damage and attack speed.
I would bet that you don't even know half of what fighters gets to boost their DPS.
If you're gonna compare 2 classes, you can't only look at one of them.

A THF fighter only beats a THF barb if it uses SoS (the barb too ofcourse). But a TWF fighter is far ahead of a non-SoS THF barb and also ahead of TWF barbs.

Look at the first post in this thread, click the link. There you'll find alot of calculations proving that you are wrong.

I guess your not on my server or never been in a group with my Barb. It is funny how that works.
And I guess if you doing your DPS math over 5 minutes, your in some low DPS groups.
Gssh, 5 minutes /yawn

You are speaking the the person who (along with my friend) organised the group that got the pre mod 9 worldwide shroud speed record.

The question from the OP was about best melee DPS not about how much damage a specific toon takes or how long they can last or healing of that toon. And in most raids, over healing is done on the main tank.

Then why did you bring up HP in the first place, smart ass?

Here's the deal, if you have some kind of facts to back your claims up with then feel free to share it with us, otherwise I'll be going from this thread. I can't be arsed to argue with idiots who think that you calculate DPS by comparing your highest crit numbers.

[DragonMageT]

That's not the point. If I wanted to, I could calc only the 20 seconds haste boost is active and claim that to be a fighters DPS, but that wouldn't be fair, now would it?

The 5 minutes was set as a standard like a year ago, when people were complaing that The Monster was only good when the boosts were up and running.

If you have a better time in mind, and can actually motivate it, I'm all ears. But until then you can shut up.

However, in the context of a kensai and a barb, what difference does it makes if it's 2 minutes or 5 minutes?!

5 minute standard, where ? By who ? A year ago we didn't have Mod 9 with all the enhancements.
And your right 2 minutes or 5 minutes doesn't matter, Barb is still the best choice.

Just so you know, crit numbers do matter, since a Barb crits higher therefore will output more DPS. The more
crits over the 5 minutes, the more DPS that is done by the Barb. What's your fighter crit at 300 ? what's his normal damage ?, does it include the 6d6 and str bonuses.....Didn't think so.
With Frenzy I dont have to worry about cool downs, they last for 60 seconds and are charged and ready to go
well before 60 seconds is up....meaning I can stay Frenzied all the time during boss battles.

I bet you ran those numbers without the Barbs 6d6 additional damage and Str bonuses.
I bet you gave the Barb the same Str as the Fighter.

Ivanbss, you can do as you wish but I hope you don't listen to this nutcase Aaxeyu.

[Aaxeyu]

5 minute standard, where ? By who ? A year ago we didn't have Mod 9 with all the enhancements.

By me. My calcs, my standard.
We knew about most of the enhancements.

And your right 2 minutes or 5 minutes doesn't matter, Barb is still the best choice.

Any facts behind that claim?

I bet you ran those numbers without the Barbs 6d6 additional damage and Str bonuses.
I bet you gave the Barb the same Str as the Fighter.

You would lose that bet. If you click the link and look through the posts you can see that their strength is different and that the 6d6 damage from frenzy is infact included.

[ivanbss]

lots of arguing here =) since im a newbie i dont know who is right, maybe both of you guys.

But its good to know that IF i fall behind on the dmg, WONT be like 250 dps (barb) vs 500 (Ftr). I accept a 10-15% dps difference as a "Balanced" class/game, cause theres a lot of variationals over the calculations (items,mobs vunerability, etc).

I apreciate the help guys.

[Gunga]

FACT: Barbarian.

Not to derail, but before opening this thread I thought that it would be dominated by Aaxeyu, A_O, A_D and Shade.

I'm disappointed by the no shows.

[DragonMageT]

FACT: Barbarian.

Not to derail, but before opening this thread I thought that it would be dominated by Aaxeyu, A_O, A_D and Shade.

I'm disappointed by the no shows.

LMAO, good one!

[DragonMageT]

lots of arguing here =) since im a newbie i dont know who is right, maybe both of you guys.

But its good to know that IF i fall behind on the dmg, WONT be like 250 dps (barb) vs 500 (Ftr). I accept a 10-15% dps difference as a "Balanced" class/game, cause theres a lot of variationals over the calculations (items,mobs vunerability, etc).

I apreciate the help guys.

You must also realize that Aaxeyu is trying to take a perfect comparison without many factors as you stated.
(items, mobs, distance from target, number of targets that can be hit, play style, expertise of player, etc).

I hate to break you to Aaxeyu you figures are flawed. DDO is not a turn based game...IT's a real-time game.
It doesn't work like attack 1 is a 1 on the die, etc. All things are not created equal as in the real-world.

Hope that doesn't send you into a deep depression...if so, I'm not paying the bill :P

[bobbryan2]

The truth of the matter is that DPS is far more altered by gear than it is by build.

It doesn't matter if you're a 20th THF barbarian, or a 20th TWF fighter, or a 20th TWF KotC Paladin, or Tempest Ranger.... if you're geared to the hilt, you'll do fine in any DPS situation.

My TWF dwarven tempest ranger will consistently pull DPS off builds that should technically do more... but it's hard to compare with tharne's goggles, tempest set bonus, few lightning strike dwarven axes, bloodstone, and a few other pieces.

If you get similar gear for any of the main fighting groups... you'll do just fine.

The arguments over theoretical maximums are pretty stupid anyway, because in any raid group you're lucky to get a single person that is hitting a maximum, let alone 2-3.

[Gunga]

few lightning strike dwarven axes

Why in the world would you have more than 2?

I know dwarves are hearty, but...

[Hadrian]

While the barbarian has the most potential DPS out, keep in mind that he's also by far the least self sufficient.

You might also consider a paladin for DPS in the end game. Against raid bosses that are evil outsiders, the pally capstone plus the KotC PrE adds up to a lot of DPS. A full DPS Knight of the Chalice paladin is going to challenge any other build for top DPS in these situations.

My TWF dwarven tempest ranger will consistently pull DPS off builds that should technically do more...

I often find that to be the case with my weapon finesse builds as well. I am sure certain people on this thread will tell you that is an impossibility based on calculations, but any model of game play you come up with makes a lot of assumptions. It just goes to show how actual game play can differ greatly from those assumptions.

[Aaxeyu]

You must also realize that Aaxeyu is trying to take a perfect comparison without many factors as you stated.
(items, mobs, distance from target, number of targets that can be hit, play style, expertise of player, etc).

Say what?
I'm trying to take into account for as many things as possible. Items, number of targets, mobs DR, mobs fortification, elemental resistance etc etc is all there.
But you have to realise that things like player skill is irrelevant when comparing two builds.

I hate to break you to Aaxeyu you figures are flawed. DDO is not a turn based game...IT's a real-time game.
It doesn't work like attack 1 is a 1 on the die, etc. All things are not created equal as in the real-world.

Hope that doesn't send you into a deep depression...if so, I'm not paying the bill :P

They are accurate for comparisons.

1 attack 1 is 1 on the die? What are you talking about now?
It's statistics, google it.

Funny that you claim that my calcs are not good for measuring DPS when you yourself only looks at the highest achiveable crit and make all judgements based on that

You truly are a simple kid. Don't feel bad about it.

[Aaxeyu]

While the barbarian has the most potential DPS out

Why do you say that? Because of the class description or the axe symbol?
It's easy to believe that barbarians are the highest DPS class, but sadly it isn't so.

Do the math yourself if you don't believe me.

[SquelchHU]

DPS = damage per second.

Doing xxx damage on a crit = spike damage.

Spike damage =/= DPS.

Otherwise the best DPS class would be a Sorcerer critting on his spells.

Thanks for playing.

[Hadrian]

You truly are a simple kid. Don't feel bad about it.

Why do you bother with stuff like this? This is one of the many reasons that no one takes your advice seriously anymore.

Why do you say that? Because of the class description or the axe symbol?
It's easy to believe that barbarians are the highest DPS class, but sadly it isn't so.

Do the math yourself if you don't believe me.

Yeah, you know I have and that being snide or insulting won't impress me or support your point in any way, right?

[Thrudh]

You might also consider a paladin for DPS in the end game. Against raid bosses that are evil outsiders, the pally capstone plus the KotC PrE adds up to a lot of DPS. A full DPS Knight of the Chalice paladin is going to challenge any other build for top DPS in these situations.

In a short fight against an evil outsider (like part 4 of the Shroud), a KotC paladin beats everyone...

Spamming Exalted Smites and Divine Sacrifices along with KotC damage is huge burst DPS...

Now, once the smites are gone, the paladin's DPS drops down to just good levels, instead of monstrous... but in a 1 round Part 4 beatdown, if you added up the totals, the paladin would have done more damage than anyone else....

[Gunga]

Why do you say that? Because of the axe symbol?

I can't take you seriously when you have axe in your name; you clearly have no regard for your position.

You should change your name to Aswordyu immediately, if not sooner.

[Aaxeyu]

I often find that to be the case with my weapon finesse builds as well. I am sure certain people on this thread will tell you that is an impossibility based on calculations, but any model of game play you come up with makes a lot of assumptions. It just goes to show how actual game play can differ greatly from those assumptions.

Ofcourse not. Aggro does not always equal DPS.
And just because someone have the right level split doesn't mean he have the same gear or playerskill to measue with.

It seems that alot of people fail to grasp the point of the DPS calculator.
See it as "Potential DPS estimator for different character builds, all other things being equal".

[Hadrian]

In a short fight against an evil outsider (like part 4 of the Shroud), a KotC paladin beats everyone...

Spamming Exalted Smites and Divine Sacrifices along with KotC damage is huge burst DPS...

Now, once the smites are gone, the paladin's DPS drops down to just good levels, instead of monstrous... but in a 1 round Part 4 beatdown, if you added up the totals, the paladin would have done more damage than anyone else....

Indeed. This is pretty much good enough for any evil outsider raid boss. The only one that takes a long time to take down is VoD, and there pacing the DPS is important until the last "burst" part of the quest which only takes a few seconds.

In all cases the paladin is given the opportunity to use his burst damage to its fullest on these raid bosses.

It seems that alot of people fail to grasp the point of the DPS calculator.
See it as "Potential DPS estimator for different character builds, all other things being equal".

Sure, that's right. No one understands you. It can't be that we want a more practical, actually relevant to the game we play answer that isn't based on dozens of perfect situational assumptions suited to how you like the game to be played.