/partyremove

[Nahual]

I think if you are in a party leader puts up a vote.

for other members of the party if the majority say yes you get booted if its half and half he doesnt get booted. You can ony ask once.

[biggin]

/not signed

I've been playing for quite some time and I can't see this as being anything but abusive. The one time it could actually be used for a worthwhile infraction it would be used 100 times for every other reason. We learned long ago how to "police" ourselves. Someone running ahead and can't handle the aggro? Stop healing them. Someone repeatedly setting off traps after you tell them to stop? Don't raise them. And for the very rare occasion that someone just zones in and stays at the beginning of the quest to collect xp? I guess I never really cared since there used to not be dungeoun scaling. Even now I probably wouldn't care. I can think of that happening maybe 5 times in the 3 years, and usually its just RL that pops up. Maybe the wife came home, late for work, etc., but I wouldn't care if that happened.

We police ourselves in-game well enough as far as grouping. There's no need to put back in a feature that was/will be abused.

[Fourfingers]

I said it before on page 1, I'll say the same thing here.

NOT signed.

If you have a piker and you don't want to let them benefit, reform and don't group with them again.

If someone steps in the quest and isn't moving, it shouldn't be too hard to realize they're no longer participating. Either reform or move on and don't group with them again.

If the person is being obnoxious, /squelch them and don't group with them again.

If they are causing you and the party grief, if you have the support of everyone else in the party, the answer is simple, let them either run the entire quest for you, or, with the support of the healers, let them die and relocate their stone far enough away from the shrine that they can't res. If they can res then they won't get heals. If they can be self-sufficient enough to zerg ahead and stay alive then who says they're piking?

I strongly remember running Von5 with a person who grabbed the ring and decided to go afk in the middle of the lightning traps. Said person was afk for 20 minutes or more and never bothered to respond to tells and we obviously couldn't go on because of the ring. The answer was simple. Kite some mobs to the player, diplomacy, d-door, let the mobs kill the player, collect the ring, drop the players stone in the lava and move on.

[Zenako]

It also tracks late players and limit xp based on 80% and 50% contribution I believe. If there is options for tracking those things why cant they be implemented in tracking cures and simple in dungeon position ie has the piker stayed at the beginning as if he is moving with the party he is less likely to be a piker I assume due to the nature of what they are trying to do. I would have the mechanics assume in most cases a certain amount of kills being acceptable as contributing. Then again maybe it cant be done.

So you end up booting the 0 kill healbot with no kills..., or the buffing/CC speced caster or bard?

Not gonna work out well...

Seriously this is really not a huge issue and almost any systemic fix you can propose will present far more downside and risk of abuse than any freeloader can muster...

[Kistilan]

My personal observation is that piking quests is pretty darn rare. Most people play the game to you know, actually play, not sit around and do nothing. So from that standpoint an idea like this is not really that needed. Do you sometimes have a freeloader. Sure. Finish the quest, and dismiss them.

Potential abuse in many quests where items appear that are not preassigned.

Please generate list of quests like Whisperdoom, etc... Else I'm failing to see any griefing potential to take the loot from others. Locking someone out of the chest from end reward by kicking them, yeah I can see that: I totally agree with a 75% completion kick lock-out. If the devs can track completion by a "waypoint" in the quest, this would help.

Also, unless the party is in cahoots, if they added the TICK with a 10-limit threshhold, after the second kick of 6 party members (at a strategic time for said loot), the leader runs the risk of 9 disagree marks. A third kick and he's at 12, locked out of his ability if the Threshhold were 10, and waiting 21 days before he can even kick once (at which, if he incurs 5 ticks, is locked out again of kicking ability for 35 days).

As Kadran said, the mechanic would be feared by the jerks and abused by those-few that are jerks. The lock-out would assure those few jerks would also be ticked into lockout rather quickly. Finally, I think the Favor Reward Unlock could also be a good measure of merit. We're looking for leaders that need the kick ability for things like:

Piking.
Harassment.
Disparaging Comments and Verbal Abuse.
Extremely Conflicting Playstyles.
Sabotage.
Disingenuous Players.

Don't just lump this up as "Pikers are few and far between." That's not just the only kind of person that this tool would be exceptionally useful for.

I noticed quite a few of the Joneses are against this idea. I'm familiar with your candor in groups. This tool obviously would change your tone and curteousy levels. It makes sense why some are against the anonymity-empowering disabler.

[Gunga]

Else I'm failing to see any griefing potential to take the loot from others.

Obviously.

This tool obviously would change your tone and curteousy levels.

No.



You haven't stopped to think why this was implemented in the first place?

[Kistilan]

Obviously.



No.



You haven't stopped to think why this was implemented in the first place?

I'll take vague and ambiguous sentences for a million.

/hugsagunga

Me? Think? Of course not...

PS: If you could supply "examples" of your objection, it would go a lot further to convincing me than rhetoric and No.

[Lorz]

Did you read my suggestion in the post before you? Please if you answer be reasonable.

See what you suffer from is a lack of history and knowledge...we used to be able to Boot people just like suggested...it got abused so bad...and griefing was so bad it was removed.

Your system is no better nor are ones with voting because if your say a single player in a run with a bunch of players that are in one guild or like minded you can be unfairly kicked and even if you mark negartive you still would be over ridden by the other conspirators.

Yes it would be nice to beable to get rid of a bad party member...we have the mechanic already its called recall...reform and dont invite them back.....the problem with your idea is that it still leaves open the abuse/griefing.

Again...had you been here and knew why it is the way it is...you would not make such a suggestion.

Live and learn.

But if you fail to learn from the mistakes of history...your are doomed to repeat them.

(oh and i was not responding to your idea initally...as you are not OP...i was responding to OP in the first one).

[Lorz]

I'll take vague and ambiguous sentences for a million.

/hugsagunga

Me? Think? Of course not...

PS: If you could supply "examples" of your objection, it would go a lot further to convincing me than rhetoric and No.

Try we get you into a run with a bunch of my croonies...we use your toons skill to get past the trap or point we need...we then KICK you and when you give neg rep or whatever...we all give pos to the star and neg to you...(undeserved yes) but now youve wasted time and resources and have nothing to show for it. Why dont we also bring back the STAR decides who gets what raid loot. And other insanely stupid ideas of allowing one person power over another....NO THANKS....and gee that took like 5 seconds....give me this mechanic and i will raise it to a high black art just to show you how terrible your idea is...both in concept and in actual execution as it was all those years ago...or have you gotten brain rot and forgotten?

[noneill]

/ not signed.

They got rid of it for a reason. It was abused.

As others have said, plenty of ways to abuse the voting system.

I would go for the ability to kick someone who gets marked AFK but that is it.

[Fenrisulven6]

I noticed quite a few of the Joneses are against this idea. I'm familiar with your candor in groups. This tool obviously would change your tone and curteousy levels. It makes sense why some are against the anonymity-empowering disabler.

Heh. I noticed the same bias.

[Xeraphim]

Please allow the group leader to kick people from party even when they are inside a dungeon.

Why reward people with xp, loot and favor for ruining quests for others?

You joined long enough ago to remember how it used to be. You're requesting a return to the pre-MOD 3 kick options, and I see a dire need for that these days.

You can simulate this by just recalling and reforming... how often do pikers/griefers wait until you are almost done to pike/grief?

However, I can see griefers waiting until the group is almost done, then boot someone who did nothing to deserve losing completion/loot.

Imagine a player joins, enters, helps for about 3 minutes, then stands around for 2 more... then begins screaming into the microphone at 260db in the voice of a furious german child, aggroing everything in the dungeon like Demii was notorious for(Mabar). Recalling out after you've invested time and resources into a quest for the mere sake of a griefer in your group is NOT a good option.

As for booting someone, simply submit a harrassment ticket and hope for the best. If nothing is done by HART(as usual), just spread the word on the server or speak with the guild leader. Some guilds are well known for being the steaming rank pile of sh*t of the world, despite being ultra-twinked superpowerful characters with very talented players.

Not signed unless unjustified booting can be reported as griefing and the offenders banned. To much room for griefing otherwise.

I want a /vote yes and /vote no option with a timer of 1 minute for this purpose for the other party members, so a leader that wants to grief becomes very very well known quite quickly.


/partyremove with a /vote option is my suggestion.

[Xeraphim]

I think if you are in a party leader puts up a vote.

for other members of the party if the majority say yes you get booted if its half and half he doesnt get booted. You can ony ask once.

I got here after voting was proposed it seems... but the idea of the change seems heavily favored by the community.

[Gunga]

Heh. I noticed the same bias.

Great minds think alike.

Odd that our opinion of the mechanic only saves you from you.

[Kistilan]

Try we get you into a run with a bunch of my croonies...we use your toons skill to get past the trap or point we need...we then KICK you and when you give neg rep or whatever...we all give pos to the star and neg to you...(undeserved yes) but now youve wasted time and resources and have nothing to show for it. Why dont we also bring back the STAR decides who gets what raid loot. And other insanely stupid ideas of allowing one person power over another....NO THANKS....and gee that took like 5 seconds....give me this mechanic and i will raise it to a high black art just to show you how terrible your idea is...both in concept and in actual execution as it was all those years ago...or have you gotten brain rot and forgotten?

Negative Ghost Rider.

There is no "positive" rep. Yeah, I only get 1 neg rep... but you only got 9 more hat tricks in a pocket of 5 bad seeds before ya start getting locked out of /kick power.

Also, that's like an extreme example. You don't gain anything by kicking me, even out of a raid. Wow, there's 1 less guy opening a chest. Really good job. See how illogical that is? Meanwhile, I neg rep a guy. Let's say it takes more than a week for 1 point to go away on a character. How about a month instead? Voila. Now 10 Neg votes later (10 incidents) that guy is waiting a month. If he's really super-smart and does the vote amongst not-so-savvy friends, he might lock himself out of the kick feature for 5 months in a single kick.

It's self-moderating.

I know the history. I've lived through /kick. There's a way to bring this tool back to serve the common good and remove the need for GM Intervention during a lot of grief/cheat runs.

[Kistilan]

Great minds think alike.

Odd that our opinion of the mechanic only saves you from you.

You're so witty today!

Here, let's get your brain activated.

PS: No one would ever /kick Megan Fox (to keep this relevant).

[joneb1999]

See what you suffer from is a lack of history and knowledge...we used to be able to Boot people just like suggested...it got abused so bad...and griefing was so bad it was removed.

Your system is no better nor are ones with voting because if your say a single player in a run with a bunch of players that are in one guild or like minded you can be unfairly kicked and even if you mark negartive you still would be over ridden by the other conspirators.

Yes it would be nice to beable to get rid of a bad party member...we have the mechanic already its called recall...reform and dont invite them back.....the problem with your idea is that it still leaves open the abuse/griefing.

Again...had you been here and knew why it is the way it is...you would not make such a suggestion.

Live and learn.

But if you fail to learn from the mistakes of history...your are doomed to repeat them.

(oh and i was not responding to your idea initally...as you are not OP...i was responding to OP in the first one).

You dont need to experience everything to understand it and also history will reveal times when people go from one extreme attitude to the opposite where a middle ground needs to be found. This is the case here. Kicking was implemented badly before so everyone now thinks it will always be implemented badly. Anyway enough is enough I jave exhausted myself with suggestions and the feedback I am getting shows no one is reading what I write properly and the same argument is repeated over and again. Lol so is the way of the messageboard.

[gordgray]

LoL Thanks now I could belive that more then any thing else.

Five guildies and a non guildy in party doing VON1-4.

/guild chat: IKickButt has logged on
IKickButt: Hey what you guys doing?
Random guildy in party: VON1, at end fight.
IKickButt: Ohhhh I need to reflag! Full?
Random guildy in party: Yeah....but hold on a moment.
/kick
/invite IKickButt

[gordgray]

Wow you took my Idea I posted earlier on except the moving the stone LOL great I'll try that one!

I said it before on page 1, I'll say the same thing here.

NOT signed.

If you have a piker and you don't want to let them benefit, reform and don't group with them again.

If someone steps in the quest and isn't moving, it shouldn't be too hard to realize they're no longer participating. Either reform or move on and don't group with them again.

If the person is being obnoxious, /squelch them and don't group with them again.

If they are causing you and the party grief, if you have the support of everyone else in the party, the answer is simple, let them either run the entire quest for you, or, with the support of the healers, let them die and relocate their stone far enough away from the shrine that they can't res. If they can res then they won't get heals. If they can be self-sufficient enough to zerg ahead and stay alive then who says they're piking?

I strongly remember running Von5 with a person who grabbed the ring and decided to go afk in the middle of the lightning traps. Said person was afk for 20 minutes or more and never bothered to respond to tells and we obviously couldn't go on because of the ring. The answer was simple. Kite some mobs to the player, diplomacy, d-door, let the mobs kill the player, collect the ring, drop the players stone in the lava and move on.

[Uska]

You dont need to experience everything to understand it and also history will reveal times when people go from one extreme attitude to the opposite where a middle ground needs to be found. This is the case here. Kicking was implemented badly before so everyone now thinks it will always be implemented badly. Anyway enough is enough I jave exhausted myself with suggestions and the feedback I am getting shows no one is reading what I write properly and the same argument is repeated over and again. Lol so is the way of the messageboard.

There is no reason to change what we have it is the best systema nd we dont need no middle ground