Barb-Why not human?

[Valiance]

So the below is taken from Shade's max dps WF barb build:

Race:
Warforged (+2 con, more hp, more rage, +3 power attack enhance, great weapon aptitude, can be healed by divine and arcane, awesome race)
Barbarian Level 20


I plan to roll up one of these guys on my F2P account. I could drop the coin to open up WF but I'm not really sure if I want to. Seems to me that human might be just as good if not better choice.

Humans (+1 con, +1 str, extra feat for both toughness AND stunning blow, healing enhancements make being healed by divine healers a cinch).

Let me compare each area more directly:

HP- To me because they can fit in toughness (stunning blow is a must) and have the plus 1 available to con they actually come out AHEAD of WF on HP.

Dmg-Ok here is where the human loses to the WF. The plus 3 WF power attack enhancement is an additional 6 dmg per swing. Pretty big. However, the human does get the plus 1 str enhancement which would give an average of about 1 dmg imo ( 33% of time no bracket, 33% of time a plus 1 dmg bracket, and 33% of time a plus 2 dmg bracket). However, the human will have a plus 3 higher to hit bonus at all times. This might not usually matter but when you've drank a silver flame pot and you have minus 10 to all stats this could be huge. Which leads me to-

Healing- Ok it is very nice that WF can be healed by both arcane and divine casters. But really, in game the healing is done by divine casters 99% of the time. That means that 99% of the time humans have HUGE edge. They can get well over 100% healing without spending one gear slot. If they do make a minor investment in healing amplification gear the human becomes exceptionally easy to keep up even by scrolls. This allows not just divine casters but rogues, sorcerers, ect to actively and effectively participate in the healing. Finally, silver flame pots become a VERY powerful healing source as they would be effected by the large healing boosts.

Stunning blow and trip DCs- WF straight up win here with their enhancements but they are very expensive and I'm not sure a WF barb has the room to train these anyway. If the WF doesn't have room then the human actually would win with a .5 higher trip/stun DC due to his plus 1 str enhancement.

Wpn=Human really became a good choice when they speeded up falcions. It really evens the playing field over say dwarfs in that the better weapon makes up for the loss of the axe dmg and attack enhancements.

Final thoughts- with the extra skill point per level humans can really get their spot or balance up nice and high for a nice added benefit. Human versatility can give a very nice saves, dmg, skill, ac boost ect when needed. Early on ac boost with uncanny dodge can be meaningful. At end game properly geared you can easily get umd into the 30's (teleport scrolls?), could pop the plus 5 dmg enhancement before charging into battle, or could hit the saves boost when EPIC DQ blades are coming your way.

To me it is huma FTW!

Any thoughts?

V

[tihocan]

Yes, human is fine. The main advantage of being wf, imo, is in some raids where it actually helps to have arcane casters helping with healing.

[Valiance]

Yep. In my guild on any given raid there's probably 1 or 2 arcanes and if they're not WF they probably don't even have reconstruct trained. Also if they're not WF they almost certainly don't have the force/repair enhancmenets maxed. Most arcanes probably are WF but still.

However, there are probably 6 to 8 people who can and do UMD heal scrolls. Every cleric/FvS has at least 1 if not 2 levels of scroll enhancment as well. Heck even the arcanes (especially sorcs) are umd'ing heal scrolls more than reconstruct. With the HUGE boost to divine healing I just think it's a good way to go.

Well that and being able to have both toughness and stunning blow.

V

[Cetus]

You receive +22 to ur damage from just turning on ur power attack as a wf with both PA enhancement lines. I had a 653pt crit on my wf barb- human wont get that high.

In addition, magical weapon effects proc almost on every glancing blow with weapon aptitude, if you have the ap to spare.

[Valiance]

Human will receive plus 16 dmg from turning on PA. 6 down.

Add 1 dmg from str enhancement. 5 down.

Add human dmg boost to start fights. 15 seconds of even.

Human will have at all times on average a plus 3.5 higher to hit. (Needed when healing oneself with silverflame pots.)

Frenzied bezerker adds chance to proc wpn effects on glancing blows right? I had heard that the WF enhancements were only like a 2% more for each level. Is that bad information?

V

[transtemporal]

Humans are fine but you don't need to stack the deck quite so much in their favor - WF are better damage dealers except when you've drunk a silver flame pot. Because that happens a lot in the middle of combat.

I like that one.

If they change the human versatility timer, that'll probably be enough of a reason for me to stay human.

[Valiance]

Ya I don't mean to imply that they have the deck stacked in their favor. I'm a huge WF fan myself.

I think the trade off is slightly less dmg for the healing enhancements and the extra feat. Probably pretty even. Like you said if they improve human enhancements at all that would be a nice little bonus.

V

[DragonMageT]

HP- To me because they can fit in toughness (stunning blow is a must) and have the plus 1 available to con they actually come out AHEAD of WF on HP.

This is not true. WF can take toughness as well so Human vs WF is a wash there.
Here is where the HP difference comes into play. Starting Max Con WF 20 Human 18
20 points difference at cap.
Also WF can take additional +2 additional Con points in actions points.
Another +20 HP without giving up any Str.

Arcane healing is a helpful bonus when it comes to raids like TOD and VOD.

I not saying WF is better than Human, they both can work.

WF at end game should have healing amp. by then and any good cleric won't have problems healing a WF tank.

[Valiance]

I was speaking under the basic framework of Shade's max dps barbarian build. I'm not sure how WF gets both toughness and stunning blow. What would you drop?

V

[Beld]

being cursed doesn't affect arcane healing so no hit when cursed when being healed by arcane

Negative energy immunity, immune to hold person (still get caught at higher levels with hold monster, but humans get his too)

automatic die-hard/no bleeding

inherent fort (can wear medium fort item at lvl 7ish for 100% fort).

Docent of Defiance (don't play fleshy barbs so not sure if there is a comparable item, but don't think so)

May not be enough reason for you to pay for WF, I probably wouldn't, but there are still a lot of reasons there are a bunch of WF barbs running around Stormreach.

[Emili]

Humans are a viable choice in any melee... they're not top of the heap in DPS output but they are fine for the job... Like geared in weapons, etc... they are 6 points per swing (18 per crit) behind the WF.


WF can be reconstructed thru curse which is a plus ... heals on a human can be extrordinary though (some people dismiss such and probably never played both sides of the fense as the healee and healer) - healing amp stacks and you can find information on this board on how to use it.

Human strength is nice as it tops 28 before items ... (18 + 5lvl +1 enh +4 tome) = 28 - is even, most WF and Dwarf barbs I know stand at 2 str behind my human stripped gear it up some and you're standing well... may not seem much but is a dc a to-hit and the most inconsistant part of a barb is maintaining the all the perk rages on top of your mighty rage, fenzy and madstone... now we spell and pot up, cookie up, clickie up... is one extra mod point you never need worry bout in epic...

HP - WF have 3 stat points over human there ... they have another racial toughness enhancement... can be 60 hp yet most sit at 20 to 40 hp over the human. WHY? well you crafted exception con items currently fall on odd numbers 1 and 3 usually...

WF immunities are superb... never need worry bout things like that ... human takes much more gear.

Summary: Humans work fine, human melee has some perks, not as many but do ok - compared to other races you must be a more skillful and alert player for like results.

[Ulf]

WF: +3 PA (6 dmg for THF), 2 higher base con, 2 racial con enhancements, arcane healing, immunities

Human: +1 str/con racial enhancement, extra feat, healing amp

So, basically WF will hit harder, have more hp, healable by more classes, lower hp/heal, -3 to hit, and one less feat. The extra feat is just not worth it in the vast majority of cases. Actually dwarf would be better than human

Dwarf: +2 axe, 2 higher base con, 2 racial con enhancements

Dwarf would have more dmg than human, more hp, same or better to hit, lower hp/heal, and one less feat. So maybe, if you don't want to dole out the points for WF you could go dwarf instead.

[Valiance]

WF: +3 PA (6 dmg for THF), 2 higher base con, 2 racial con enhancements, arcane healing, immunities

Human: +1 str/con racial enhancement, extra feat, healing amp

So, basically WF will hit harder, have more hp, healable by more classes, lower hp/heal, -3 to hit, and one less feat. The extra feat is just not worth it in the vast majority of cases. Actually dwarf would be better than human

Dwarf: +2 axe, 2 higher base con, 2 racial con enhancements

Dwarf would have more dmg than human, more hp, same or better to hit, lower hp/heal, and one less feat. So maybe, if you don't want to dole out the points for WF you could go dwarf instead.

Shades feat list looks like this:

1 - Two Handed Fighting
3 - Power Attack
6 - Cleave
9 - Improved critical: Slashing
12 - Improved Two Handed Fighting
15 - Greater Two Handed Fighting
18 - Toughness or Stunning Blow

I happen to agree with it 100%. Stunning blow is a HUGE, and I mean HUGE boost to dps on anything that can be stunned. This leads to massive sp savings for clerics in almost all quests, not to mentions speeds things up quite a bit.

So the WF has to choose. If he drops stunning blow then the human wins dps easily on trash mobs but has a little bit less HP on bosses. IF the WF drops toughness then the human actually has MORE hp then the WF. Same choice goes for Dwarves. Dwarves are not better because the better stats of the Falcion equal out or exceed the axe enhancements that will cost a very large amount of AP for the dwarf to take. Dwarf won't get the healing amp either. If either the WF or Dwarf decide to drop improved crit slashing and just plan to use mineral 2 weapons then that too is a big drop off in dps vs trash mobs and some bosses. Also in that situation you wouldn't be able to use epic sword of shadows or epic Xuum to their full potential.

In some cases "1 more feat" is just 1 more feat. In the case of a FB barb one more feat is huge.

As far as the con advantage if you take a look at Shade's build he makes the case that you don't need maxed con on a barbarian anyway. If you go into the planner human can get very nearly the same stat distribution plus 1 more skill point per level. The extra plus 2 con is not really used by the WF and dwarfs. (At least according to Shades recommendations.)


Let me be clear. WF is my number one race. I have several battlemages, real arcanes, and melee WF. I don't really care about spending the points anyway. I just am building a barb whose main goal is to be THE dmg dealer/soaker in high end raids. Knowing my guild the healing enhancements are going to be more useful then being able to be repaired by arcanes.

Really the thing that makes me still want to roll up a WF is the docent of defiance. I have 3 of em and I wish I had 3 more. Dr 20 is huge, yet I will have a permanent DR 9 so this is allowing me to try something new and go human for a change.

V

[Ulf]

So the WF has to choose. If he drops stunning blow then the human wins dps easily on trash mobs but has a little bit less HP on bosses
You are assuming that you always land stunning blow, which is not true. In fact WF and dwarf could have better DC than human from tactics enhancements.
IF the WF drops toughness then the human actually has MORE hp then the WF. Same choice goes for Dwarves.
Wrong, 4 more con = 40 hp, toughness feat is 20. Human would have to take touchness enhancements as well. Normally I would say thats fine, but apparently AP is extremely tight according to you.
Dwarves are not better because the better stats of the Falcion equal out or exceed the axe enhancements that will cost a very large amount of AP for the dwarf to take.
6 AP for +2 dmg, same as WF PA enhancement that gives +3 dmg with -3 hit.
Dwarf won't get the healing amp either.
Again human will have to spend AP for healing amp which you claim to be precious. Not to mention healing is clearly listed as less for dwarf.
If either the WF or Dwarf decide to drop improved crit slashing and just plan to use mineral 2 weapons then that too is a big drop off in dps vs trash mobs and some bosses. Also in that situation you wouldn't be able to use epic sword of shadows or epic Xuum to their full potential.
Or if human decided to take only skill focus feats they would do minimal dps. But that makes as much sense as a WF or dwarf dropping IC, espically if they have an epic SoS.

In some cases "1 more feat" is just 1 more feat. In the case of a FB barb one more feat is huge.

As far as the con advantage if you take a look at Shade's build he makes the case that you don't need maxed con on a barbarian anyway. If you go into the planner human can get very nearly the same stat distribution plus 1 more skill point per level. The extra plus 2 con is not really used by the WF and dwarfs. (At least according to Shades recommendations.)
Make up your mind, do hp matter or not. You say extra con isn't needed in the build so its no real benefit to WF; however, toughness is a huge benefit because humans have an extra feat.


Let me be clear. WF is my number one race. I have several battlemages, real arcanes, and melee WF. I don't really care about spending the points anyway. I just am building a barb whose main goal is to be THE dmg dealer/soaker in high end raids. Knowing my guild the healing enhancements are going to be more useful then being able to be repaired by arcanes.

Really the thing that makes me still want to roll up a WF is the docent of defiance. I have 3 of em and I wish I had 3 more. Dr 20 is huge, yet I will have a permanent DR 9 so this is allowing me to try something new and go human for a change.

V

You have multiple WF and want to make "THE dmg dealer/soaker in high end raids". So you decide to roll a human on a F2P second account?

[Valiance]

So the WF has to choose. If he drops stunning blow then the human wins dps easily on trash mobs but has a little bit less HP on bosses
You are assuming that you always land stunning blow, which is not true. In fact WF and dwarf could have better DC than human from tactics enhancements.

Hmmmmm. It appears that you have a serious problem with adding in your own wrong ideas that were not put there by others. Where did I say they land every stunning blow attempt? I didn't. I don't have a barb yet to know. I said that stunning blow gives them a major advantage on trash mobs. This is still true. Even if it landed only half the time it would still be true. However, Shade has said that his stunning blow lands all or nearly all the time. I think I'm going to follow his advice...cuz...well you know...he knows what he's talking about and you don't and all.

Also what good is stunning blow enhancements going to do the WF when he doens't even have the feat?

IF the WF drops toughness then the human actually has MORE hp then the WF. Same choice goes for Dwarves.
Wrong, 4 more con = 40 hp, toughness feat is 20. Human would have to take touchness enhancements as well. Normally I would say thats fine, but apparently AP is extremely tight according to you.\

Well Mr. Reading comprehension I never said AP was extremely tight. Still every AP has some cost, whether AP is tight or not. Also here is Shade's recommended stat distribution:
Stats
(28 point build, for 32 I recommend adding +1 dex, +1 int and +2 wis)
Str 18
Dex 11
Con 16
Int 9
Wis 8
Cha 6

Here is what a human 28 pt can get-
Str 18 (same)
Dex 10 (just one point lower)
Con 16 (exact same as recommended)
Int 8 (one point lower but in effect a point higher due to free skill pt/level)
Wis 8 (exact same)
Cha 8 (1 bracket better)
The stats for human get even better under 32 pt build when following Shades recommendations.

Soooooo......you're 4 more con are simply not there. WF would have just 1 higher con from having 2 con enhancements instead of 1. Thus they would get on average 10 ,more hp from 1 pt higher con while the human would get all the hp from toughness and the added benefit of the enhancements. (Which can be significantly more). Again I never said AP was extremely tight.

Oh and toughness is actually 22 hp at level 20. But I'm sure you knew that and it was just a typo cuz only someone who really new his stuff front and back would type with such an attitude.

Dwarves are not better because the better stats of the Falcion equal out or exceed the axe enhancements that will cost a very large amount of AP for the dwarf to take.
6 AP for +2 dmg, same as WF PA enhancement that gives +3 dmg with -3 hit.

Does your comment even make sense? My point is that the Falcion's better crit profile roughly equals out to the advantages of the plus 2 dmg and plus 2 to hit of the great axe which dwarves have to use. Oh and by saving those 12 AP I just bought myself a whole crapload of toughness enhancements and healing amp haven't I?

The WF higher dmg vs lower to hit has been covered several times in this thread already. Try to follow along pls.

Dwarf won't get the healing amp either.
Again human will have to spend AP for healing amp which you claim to be precious. Not to mention healing is clearly listed as less for dwarf.

As discussed above given the recommended stat distribution a human with toughness and ZERO enhancements would have 13 more hp then a dwarf on average (23 toughness hp - 10 average hp from 1 less con). Falcion v. dwarven axe w/enhancements has been covered several times. Again pls try to keep up.

If either the WF or Dwarf decide to drop improved crit slashing and just plan to use mineral 2 weapons then that too is a big drop off in dps vs trash mobs and some bosses. Also in that situation you wouldn't be able to use epic sword of shadows or epic Xuum to their full potential.
Or if human decided to take only skill focus feats they would do minimal dps. But that makes as much sense as a WF or dwarf dropping IC, espically if they have an epic SoS.

Dude, seriously reading comprehension. I was not recommending that a WF drop improved crit slashing. I was just trying to think of the only other feat other than toughness or stunning blow that could possibly be dropped. The point was that the extra feat for the human is very valuable on this build. Over your head eh?
In some cases "1 more feat" is just 1 more feat. In the case of a FB barb one more feat is huge.

As far as the con advantage if you take a look at Shade's build he makes the case that you don't need maxed con on a barbarian anyway. If you go into the planner human can get very nearly the same stat distribution plus 1 more skill point per level. The extra plus 2 con is not really used by the WF and dwarfs. (At least according to Shades recommendations.)
Make up your mind, do hp matter or not. You say extra con isn't needed in the build so its no real benefit to WF; however, toughness is a huge benefit because humans have an extra feat.

If every argument was extremely simple and had only one axis then you might have a point here. Since I'm trying to delicately compare several facets of the 3 different races I see you are having a very hard time following. Try reading the thread again and my comments above in yellow several times.

Let me be clear. WF is my number one race. I have several battlemages, real arcanes, and melee WF. I don't really care about spending the points anyway. I just am building a barb whose main goal is to be THE dmg dealer/soaker in high end raids. Knowing my guild the healing enhancements are going to be more useful then being able to be repaired by arcanes.

Really the thing that makes me still want to roll up a WF is the docent of defiance. I have 3 of em and I wish I had 3 more. Dr 20 is huge, yet I will have a permanent DR 9 so this is allowing me to try something new and go human for a change.

V

Comments on comments above.

[Emili]

<snip>
Well Mr. Reading comprehension I never said AP was extremely tight. Still every AP has some cost, whether AP is tight or not. Also here is Shade's
recommended stat distribution:
Stats
(28 point build, for 32 I recommend adding +1 dex, +1 int and +2 wis)
Str 18
Dex 11
Con 16
Int 9
Wis 8
Cha 6

Here is what a human 28 pt can get-
Str 18 (same)
Dex 10 (just one point lower)
Con 16 (exact same as recommended)
Int 8 (one point lower but in effect a point higher due to free skill pt/level)
Wis 8 (exact same)
Cha 8 (1 bracket better)
The stats for human get even better under 32 pt build when following Shades recommendations.

<snip>

My 32 point human barbs is like Shades base also ... Falcion is a heck of a nice weapon now and makes me wish I did not have so much greensteel in axes. Am using Min II lightning II in greataxe... incineration in falchion and a trip pos maul... I have a dual shard GS greatsword I never use - was made prior to them adding greataxes to shroud. The axe is better when tactic is stun...

One thing to understand though is the falchion wins in critable mob... once the mob is sporting a lot more fort then the GS great axe wins out again.

[Shade]

I plan to roll up one of these guys on my F2P account. I could drop the coin to open up WF but I'm not really sure if I want to. Seems to me that human might be just as good if not better choice.

I generally recommend Dwarf for F2P players who don't have WF. Human is a solid choice if you want to have both stunning blow and toughness. Tho the other option is Dwarf with 2 fighter lvl splash to pull that off. All are solid choices, just depends on what like you. But beware of taking enahcement-based advantages for granted, most of them aren't free, not nearly.

Human is a fair choice. But to do a really fair comparison, you'd need to write out a full build, not a list of bonuses gain via enhancements, while magicall not losing anything vs WF/Dwarf builds, which already use all 80AP to good effect. Everything has a cost, and what you lose to gain those other advantages are what you need to decide if it worth it.

Humans (+1 con, +1 str, extra feat for both toughness AND stunning blow, healing enhancements make being healed by divine healers a cinch).

+1 con +1 str and healing enhancements are not free. They actually have a rather massive AP cost of 18 points. You need to compare them a smaller case by base basic of what you'd lose to gain them to do a unbiased valid comparison.

Let me compare each area more directly:

Good idea.

HP- To me because they can fit in toughness (stunning blow is a must) and have the plus 1 available to con they actually come out AHEAD of WF on HP.

Didn't analyse this one correct at all. We'll assume adaptability = str, greater = con. So Human +1 con = 4 AP. For a Warforged vs Human, Warforged get +2 Con FREE. and +3 con for 2 ap, +4 con for 4 ap. So the most even comparison is WF = +3 con. HP wise that means 20-40, we'll average it out to 30.
A human HAS to take toughness to even start to match WF. Then spend 1 additiona action point to match them. Minimum of ~3+ AP to beat a WF, with no toughness, and realisticly you'll spend a fair bit more. That's another significant cost you can't cancle out and call and clear advantage. Overal WF win here. Because they have the choice, if they want to have the best HP, they will and take toughness. If not, they will still have a credible amount. If they want the best of both worlds and get stunning blow and toughness, they have the option to sacrifice some DPS to do so (get ftr lvls).
Then the player who doesn't need stunning blow has a significant advantage.. As in the top end of HP, the WF wins, by a fair margin (iirc Humans are limited to 3 toughness enhancements, while WF/Dwarf can get 4?)

Dmg-Ok here is where the human loses to the WF. The plus 3 WF power attack enhancement is an additional 6 dmg per swing. Pretty big. However, the human does get the plus 1 str enhancement which would give an average of about 1 dmg imo ( 33% of time no bracket, 33% of time a plus 1 dmg bracket, and 33% of time a plus 2 dmg bracket). However, the human will have a plus 3 higher to hit bonus at all times. This might not usually matter but when you've drank a silver flame pot and you have minus 10 to all stats this could be huge.

Can't really call any additional power attack penalties a disadvantage. There an option, that should only be taken if the player knows they can handle the penalty. Silver flame potions are an advantage to human as they're much more effective due to the healing penalty WF get applying to them. The attack penalty? In most cases it will be either be enough to force both races to turn off power attack, or neither.
You have to also consider the AP cost WF use to take the enhancements.

Healing- Ok it is very nice that WF can be healed by both arcane and divine casters. But really, in game the healing is done by divine casters 99% of the time. That means that 99% of the time humans have HUGE edge. They can get well over 100% healing without spending one gear slot. If they do make a minor investment in healing amplification gear the human becomes exceptionally easy to keep up even by scrolls. This allows not just divine casters but rogues, sorcerers, ect to actively and effectively participate in the healing. Finally, silver flame pots become a VERY powerful healing source as they would be effected by the large healing boosts.

It's an edge.. But not really one unique to humans nor such a clear cut issue. Dwarves can get to the same point where there healing amp is so high even scrolls are ultra effective (maxxed out heal scrolls do 250 on my Dwarf Barb). Warforged can hit over 100% and make heal scrolls work fine. Really except for the most extreme cases where the damage taken is massive (such as ToD elite tanking) at some point the amount of healing amp you have becomes overkill, as the healers present could do equally as well on someone lower.. Personally I did it with a WF tanking with incredibly bad healing amp heh.. Would of cost us allot less scrolls on a human, but sometimes it hard to find humans with the HP it takes to do it.
Beyond that.. Even if most groups the majority of healing is done by diving casters, the versaility of WF getting reconstructs can't be denied.
Overall I'd call this one a wash, they're pros and cons are evenly matched.

Stunning blow and trip DCs- WF straight up win here with their enhancements but they are very expensive and I'm not sure a WF barb has the room to train these anyway. If the WF doesn't have room then the human actually would win with a .5 higher trip/stun DC due to his plus 1 str enhancement.

Your comparing my build.. It clearly has the tactic enhancements.

Wpn=Human really became a good choice when they speeded up falcions. It really evens the playing field over say dwarfs in that the better weapon makes up for the loss of the axe dmg and attack enhancements.

Not really accurate. With us considering stunning blow so heavily in this discussion, using a X2 crit weapon imo.. Is a serious mistake. Stunned targets don't care about your threat range, making Greataxes superior in all cases. Aside from that, WF/Human/Dwarf all make equal use of falcions, so there's no racial advantage here. If your a huge Falcion fan, Elves actaully get the advantage with them.

Final thoughts- with the extra skill point per level humans can really get their spot or balance up nice and high for a nice added benefit. Human versatility can give a very nice saves, dmg, skill, ac boost ect when needed. Early on ac boost with uncanny dodge can be meaningful. At end game properly geared you can easily get umd into the 30's (teleport scrolls?), could pop the plus 5 dmg enhancement before charging into battle, or could hit the saves boost when EPIC DQ blades are coming your way.

The build being comapred - mine.. Gets plenty of points into spot and balance for all races. Enough to always get up on a 2 for most balance checks and make most spot checks.
Human Versatility.. As before you'd need to compare 1 set of enhancement to another to say why it's worth it. It's not some kinda free abliity, it has a rather large cost of 10 AP. So maybe it's good, but what do you lose to get it?

PS: You also mention something about human dmg boost being useful? Don't really understand that point.. As I understand you cannot use 2 different action boosts at the same time, and all Berserkers are forced to take damage boost anyways. Can you combine and stack the 2?

[AylinIsAwesome]

Human will receive plus 16 dmg from turning on PA. 6 down.

Add 1 dmg from str enhancement. 5 down.

Add human dmg boost to start fights. 15 seconds of even.

Human will have at all times on average a plus 3.5 higher to hit. (Needed when healing oneself with silverflame pots.)

Frenzied bezerker adds chance to proc wpn effects on glancing blows right? I had heard that the WF enhancements were only like a 2% more for each level. Is that bad information?

V

Just though I would point out that Barbarians already have to take the Damage Boosts if they go FB, and that until tomorrow they share the same cooldown timer with the Human one. After tomorrow, it'll still be moot because the same type of bonus won't stack.

Either way, it's not sustainable by any means.

[SimVerg]

PS: You also mention something about human dmg boost being useful? Don't really understand that point.. As I understand you cannot use 2 different action boosts at the same time, and all Berserkers are forced to take damage boost anyways. Can you combine and stack the 2?

New rule in update 3

"The temporary boosts granted by Human Versatility no longer share a common cooldown timer with other Action Boosts, allowing a Human to use a Human Versatility and a class based Action Boost simultaneously. Note that since both provide Action Boost bonuses, identical boosts will not stack, but a Human Rogue could, for instance, combine Human Damage Boost with Rogue Haste Boost."

So, in this instance not particularly useful.

[Hadrian]

You should be able to hit near 600 hp when raged even without toughness as a warforged.

I see a lot of people talking as if you must take Toughness in this thread. Considering my own WF barbarian at level 17 gets mid 500 HPs when raged and madstone raged without a shroud HP item or toughness, I wouldn't think it's very necessary.