Paladin 12 / Ranger 6 / Monk 2

[FatalBagel]

Having not previously raised a pally, I was wondering if this seemed decent to people despite seeing no real examples of builds.

My questions:
- Does this seem feasible?
- Am I gimping myself by trying for too much of a hybrid dps/tank?
- Have there been any decent versions of a build like this published?
- Is there another build that better fits my needs?

Goal: Semi-casual survivalist DPS with some light tanking ability.

Description: Warforged, TWF (Khopeshes), Knight of the Chalice II, Tempest I.

Expect to gain:
Evasion
Decent DPS
Decent AC
Good Saves
Lots of Immunities

Willing to sacrifice:
Zeal - Tempest seems better.
UMD - Painful. I'll probably still raise it cross-class.
Cash - No holy weapon and necessary tomes.

Stats:
STR 26 = 15 Base + 3 Levels + 2 Tome + 6 Item
DEX 22 = 11 Base + 2 AP + 3 Tome + 6 Item
CON 26 = 16 Base + 2 AP + 2 Tome + 6 Item
INT 18 = 11 Base + 2 Tome + 5 Item
WIS 22 = 12 Base + 1 AP + 3 Tome + 6 Item
CHA 22 = 12 Base + 2 Levels + 2 AP + 2 Tome + 6 Item

Feats:
(TWF, ITWF from Ranger)
Khopesh
Dodge
Mobility
Spring Attack
Combat Expertise
Improved Critical
Toughness
Power Attack
TWD
Edit: Removed GTWF - Thanks Thrudh

In order to get all of these, I will have to respec a couple feats for tempest.

Feel free not to pull your punches. Thanks in advance for all input!

[Greydeath]

My questions:
- Does this seem feasible?
- Am I gimping myself by trying for too much of a hybrid dps/tank?
- Have there been any decent versions of a build like this published?
- Is there another build that better fits my needs?

Yes (unfortunately)
YES
No
Yes

[AylinIsAwesome]

Yes (unfortunately)
YES
No
Yes

Same answers.

You'd probably be better off with a Paladin 18/Monk 2.

Same attack speed, more damage against Evil Outsiders and you get the Holy Sword.

[Thrudh]

FYI you need a BASE Dex of 17 to get GTWF (ITWF too if you don't have the 6 ranger levels)...

So you really need to start with a 15 or 16 Dexterity for a TWF Paladin build...

6 ranger levels aren't as good as 6 more Paladin levels... Zeal is as good as Tempest and saves you a feat

Ranger: You spend 3 feats for Tempest, but get TWF and ITWF for free
Paladin: Have to get TWF and ITWF, but don't need to spend 3 feats for Tempest...

6 levels of ranger gets you decent favored enemy bonuses and Ram's Might, but Paladin 18 gets you bigger Knight of the Chalice bonuses, plus better Exalted Smites and Divine Might III...

Looking at the compendium, I just realized that Exalted Smite isn't even in there... Devs, devs, devs...

Here's what you're missing by not going to level 18 paladin

Paladin Exalted Smite IV
◦Prerequisites: Level 18 Paladin
◦Benefit: Using this attack, you call on the paladin's ability to strike down evil creatures, gaining twice your Charisma bonus to your attack roll, a damage bonus based on your paladin level, and +2 to your weapon's critical threat range and damage multiplier. This enhancement also decreases your cooldown between smites to 2 seconds.

[Thrudh]

Oh, and Holy Sword is huge... saves you tons of money, and bypasses DR on everything (you can even make holy warhammers to bypass DR on Sorjek and other undead)

[Thelmallen]

I just reincarnated my pal12/rgr6/rog2 to make him pal18/monk2. Loss of zeal, holy sword, top auras, etc doesn't justify the deep multiclassing.

[FatalBagel]

You'd probably be better off with a Paladin 18/Monk 2.

I looked pretty hard at this, but the damage differences seemed pretty minimal:

Paladin: +9 on average from KotC III and Divine Might III. (not counting Ex.Smite IV vs. III)
Ranger: +6 from Favored Enemy

On the other hand, the ranger gains 4 AC (2 AC from Tempest, 1 AC from Dodge, 1 AC from Dex from saved AP) and Spring Attack. Plus, I don't have to worry about maintaining Zeal.

Still, these are pretty comperable. The main advantage I see is the stat freedom. By going Ranger, I don't have to worry about starting with an exceptionally high dex or charisma while still being able dual wield and max out my Divine Might.

FYI you need a BASE Dex of 17 to get GTWF (ITWF too if you don't have the 6 ranger levels)...

Ack! Thanks, I missed this. I'd have ITWF, but not GTWF. I guess that means I take TWD as well as Power Attack.

[AylinIsAwesome]

I looked pretty hard at this, but the damage differences seemed pretty minimal:

Paladin: +9 on average from KotC III and Divine Might III. (not counting Ex.Smite IV vs. III)
Ranger: +6 from Favored Enemy

On the other hand, the ranger gains 4 AC (2 AC from Tempest, 1 AC from Dodge, 1 AC from Dex from saved AP) and Spring Attack. Plus, I don't have to worry about maintaining Zeal.

Still, these are pretty comperable. The main advantage I see is the stat freedom. By going Ranger, I don't have to worry about starting with an exceptionally high dex or charisma while still being able dual wield and max out my Divine Might.

.

With training UMD you can use Sheild Wants (10th level) that will give you a +4 Sheild bonus to AC which is greater than the Tempest 1 bonus and won't stack with it.

[lord_of_rage]

I looked pretty hard at this, but the damage differences seemed pretty minimal:

Paladin: +9 on average from KotC III and Divine Might III. (not counting Ex.Smite IV vs. III)
Ranger: +6 from Favored Enemy

On the other hand, the ranger gains 4 AC (2 AC from Tempest, 1 AC from Dodge, 1 AC from Dex from saved AP) and Spring Attack. Plus, I don't have to worry about maintaining Zeal.

Still, these are pretty comperable. The main advantage I see is the stat freedom. By going Ranger, I don't have to worry about starting with an exceptionally high dex or charisma while still being able dual wield and max out my Divine Might.


Ack! Thanks, I missed this. I'd have ITWF, but not GTWF. I guess that means I take TWD as well as Power Attack.

You are forgetting the KOTC set from TOD that gives you an additional 3d6 against outsiders. You need KTOCIII for it. That puts the pally further ahead in dps #s and as mentioned you do lose holy sword as well.

[Dylvish]

You are forgetting the KOTC set from TOD that gives you an additional 3d6 against outsiders. You need KTOCIII for it. That puts the pally further ahead in dps #s and as mentioned you do lose holy sword as well.

And if you are pure pally for the capstone, thats on TOP of the already existing +7d6 on evil outsiders. Until the day they start changing up the type of mobs mostly found at endgame, that capstone is an insanely nice bonus to have.

[PurdueDave]

Stats:
STR 26 = 15 Base + 3 Levels + 2 Tome + 6 Item
DEX 22 = 11 Base + 2 AP + 3 Tome + 6 Item
CON 26 = 16 Base + 2 AP + 2 Tome + 6 Item
INT 18 = 11 Base + 2 Tome + 5 Item
WIS 22 = 12 Base + 1 AP + 3 Tome + 6 Item
CHA 22 = 12 Base + 2 Levels + 2 AP + 2 Tome + 6 Item

Not on the build but for basic stat allocation...

STR 14 + 4 levels + yada yada
....
CHA 14 + 1 levels + yada yada

...gets you to a higher CHA or if you just want to wind up at the same place it frees up a build point.

edit - ignore this. Missed the WF race part.

[FatalBagel]

Not on the build but for basic stat allocation...

STR 14 + 4 levels + yada yada
....
CHA 14 + 1 levels + yada yada

...gets you to a higher CHA or if you just want to wind up at the same place it frees up a build point.

Not for warforged. Besides, with only 12 levels of pally, this only needs 16 charisma.

I agree on the strength drop, but I would now put the extra points into dex to make GTWF feasible.

[PurdueDave]

Not for warforged. Besides, with only 12 levels of pally, this only needs 16 charisma.

I agree on the strength drop, but I would now put the extra points into dex to make GTWF feasible.

You're right. Missed the WF part. My screwup.

[sultro]

i haven't seen anyone mention the loss of manyshot by taking away tempest. its cooldown is a pain, but its a handy gadget for some situations. i like it for when the blades come in, or when i have to range a target anyhow.

[Thelmallen]

i haven't seen anyone mention the loss of manyshot by taking away tempest. its cooldown is a pain, but its a handy gadget for some situations. i like it for when the blades come in, or when i have to range a target anyhow.

I will miss losing manyshot on my reincarnate, that's for sure.