28PT Clogue

[nelyn]

I have a bud playing DDO and he wants to add some rogue skills to his priest. He only wants the spot,Disable device, open lock type stuff. He asked me to run up a build. The only thing is that I have been playing about 5 months and normally stick to single class characters.

I would like to get some opinions on this build and recommendations on making it better at a 28pt build. My bud does not have anything unlocked so he is stuck with the basice for now, or I would have recommended some of the 32pt builds I have seen.

Here is the build.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.18
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Spazzy 
Level 20 Chaotic Good Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 228
Spell Points: 1492 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 13
Will: 17

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength              8                  8                    8
Dexterity            12                 13                   14
Constitution         10                 10                   11
Intelligence         14                 16                   17
Wisdom               18                 20                   23
Charisma              8                  8                    8

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               5                  6                    6
Bluff                 0                  0                    0
Concentration         2                 16                   20
Diplomacy             0                  0                    0
Disable Device        6                 19                   20
Haggle                3                  3                    3
Heal                  4                  6                    6
Hide                  1                  2                    2
Intimidate            0                  0                    0
Jump                  3                  4                    4
Listen                4                  6                    6
Move Silently         1                  2                    2
Open Lock             5                 17.5                 18.5
Perform              n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                  3                    3
Search                6                 16                   17
Spot                  8                 13.5                 14.5
Swim                  3                  3                    3
Tumble                2                  3                    3
Use Magic Device      3                 22                   22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Swim (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Lightning Reflexes
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Rogue Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Search I
Enhancement: Rogue Spot I


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Enhancement: Cleric Concentration I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Cleric Concentration II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Jump (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: INT
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot III


Level 11 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Mental Toughness


Level 13 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+2)
Skill: Spot (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+6)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom III


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot IV


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: DEX
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Concentration III


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Intelligence I


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Cleric Concentration IV


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Cold Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Electric Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II

[AylinIsAwesome]

Ok, first: He should be True Neutral. There aren't many reasons to be Good/Lawful/Chaotic and SO many reasons not to be, especially with a Rogue splash (since you'll have UMD).

Second: The two major skills for trapping are Search and Disable Device. Your Spot and DD do you no good if you can't find the trap.

Third: All ability points into WIS!

Fourth: CON should be 14+!

Fifth: No reason to have any DEX at all. Only Open Lock is based on that, and that skill is ridiculously easy. 8 DEX.

Sixth: If a skill has x.5 ranks in it, the game counts it as x ranks in it since it always truncates.


How would this do for your friend? It needs a +2 INT tome, but those can be purchased from the DDO store.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(2 Rogue \ 18 Cleric) 
Hit Points: 258
Spell Points: 1381 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 8
Will: 19

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(28 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength              8                  8                    8
Dexterity             8                  8                    8
Constitution         14                 14                   14
Intelligence         14                 16                   16
Wisdom               18                 23                   26
Charisma              8                  8                    8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               3                  3                    3
Bluff                -1                 -1                   -1
Concentration         4                 13                   15
Diplomacy            -1                 -1                   -1
Disable Device        6                 26                   27
Haggle                3                  3                    3
Heal                  4                  8                    8
Hide                  1                  1                    1
Intimidate           -1                 -1                   -1
Jump                  3                  3                    3
Listen                4                  8                    8
Move Silently         1                  1                    1
Open Lock             3                  3                    3
Perform              n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                2                  3                    3
Search                6                 26                   26
Spot                  8                 12                   12
Swim                 -1                 -1                   -1
Tumble                3                  3                    3
Use Magic Device      3                 22                   25

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Hide (+2)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Automatic) Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Heroic Durability
Feat: (Automatic) Light Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Rapier
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortsword
Feat: (Automatic) Martial Weapon Proficiency: Shortbow
Feat: (Automatic) Simple Weapon Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak
Feat: (Automatic) Sneak Attack
Feat: (Automatic) Trapfinding


Level 2 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Automatic) Heavy Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Magical Training
Feat: (Automatic) Medium Armor Proficiency
Feat: (Automatic) Shield Proficiency (General)
Feat: (Automatic) Turn Undead
Spell (1): Bane
Spell (1): Bless
Spell (1): Cause Fear
Spell (1): Command
Spell (1): Cure Light Wounds
Spell (1): Divine Favor
Spell (1): Doom
Spell (1): Inflict Light Wounds
Spell (1): Nightshield
Spell (1): Nimbus of Light
Spell (1): Obscuring Mist
Spell (1): Protection From Evil
Spell (1): Remove Fear
Spell (1): Shield of Faith
Spell (1): Summon Monster I


Level 3 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell
Feat: (Automatic) Defensive Fighting
Feat: (Automatic) Sunder
Feat: (Automatic) Trip


Level 4 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (2): Aid
Spell (2): Bear's Endurance
Spell (2): Bull's Strength
Spell (2): Close Wounds
Spell (2): Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Deific Vengance
Spell (2): Eagle's Spendor
Spell (2): Find Traps
Spell (2): Hold Person
Spell (2): Inflict Moderate Wounds
Spell (2): Lesser Restoration
Spell (2): Owl's Wisdom
Spell (2): Remove Paralysis
Spell (2): Resist Energy
Spell (2): Seek Eternal Rest
Spell (2): Soundburst
Spell (2): Spawn Screen
Spell (2): Summon Monster II


Level 5 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 6 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
Spell (3): Bestow Curse
Spell (3): Blindness
Spell (3): Contagion
Spell (3): Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Dispel Magic
Spell (3): Glyph of Warding
Spell (3): Inflict Serious Wounds
Spell (3): Magic Circle Against Evil
Spell (3): Mass Aid
Spell (3): Prayer
Spell (3): Protection From Energy
Spell (3): Remove Blindness
Spell (3): Remove Curse
Spell (3): Remove Disease
Spell (3): Searing Light
Spell (3): Summon Monster III
Spell (3): Water Breathing


Level 7 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)


Level 8 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (4): Chaos Hammer
Spell (4): Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Deathward
Spell (4): Dismissal
Spell (4): Divine Power
Spell (4): Freedom of Movement
Spell (4): Holy Smite
Spell (4): Inflict Critical Wounds
Spell (4): Mass Shield of Faith
Spell (4): Neutralize Poison
Spell (4): Order's Wrath
Spell (4): Poison
Spell (4): Recitation
Spell (4): Restoration
Spell (4): Summon Monster IV
Spell (4): Symbol of Flame
Spell (4): Unholy Blight


Level 9 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell


Level 10 (Cleric)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Spell (5): Break Enchantment
Spell (5): Flame Strike
Spell (5): Greater Command
Spell (5): Mass Cure Light Wounds
Spell (5): Mass Inflict Light Wounds
Spell (5): Protection From Elements
Spell (5): Raise Dead
Spell (5): Slay Living
Spell (5): Spell Resistance
Spell (5): Stalwart Pact
Spell (5): Summon Monster V
Spell (5): Symbol of Pain
Spell (5): True Seeing


Level 11 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+10)
Feat: (Automatic) Evasion


Level 12 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 13 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (6): Banishment
Spell (6): Blade Barrier
Spell (6): Cometfall
Spell (6): Create Undead
Spell (6): Greater Dispel Magic
Spell (6): Greater Glyph of Warding
Spell (6): Harm
Spell (6): Heal
Spell (6): Heroes Feast
Spell (6): Mass Bear's Endurance
Spell (6): Mass Bull's Strength
Spell (6): Mass Cure Moderate Wounds
Spell (6): Mass Eagle's Spendor
Spell (6): Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds
Spell (6): Mass Owl's Wisdom
Spell (6): Summon Monster VI
Spell (6): Symbol of Fear
Spell (6): Symbol of Persuasion
Spell (6): Undead to Death
Spell (6): Word of Recall


Level 14 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell
Spell (7): Destruction
Spell (7): Greater Restoration
Spell (7): Mass Cure Serious Wounds
Spell (7): Mass Inflict Serious Wounds
Spell (7): Mass Restoration
Spell (7): Mass Spell Resistance
Spell (7): Protection From Elements, Mass
Spell (7): Resurrection
Spell (7): Summon Monster VII
Spell (7): Symbol of Stunning
Spell (7): Symbol of Weakness


Level 16 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 17 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (8): Death Pact
Spell (8): Firestorm
Spell (8): Mass Cure Critical Wounds
Spell (8): Mass Death Ward
Spell (8): Mass Inflict Critical Wounds
Spell (8): Summon Monster VIII
Spell (8): Symbol of Death


Level 18 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 19 (Cleric)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Spell (9): Energy Drain
Spell (9): Implosion
Spell (9): Mass Heal
Spell (9): Summon Monster IX
Spell (9): True Resurrection


Level 20 (Cleric)
Ability Raise: WIS
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Cleric Concentration I
Enhancement: Cleric Concentration II
Enhancement: Rogue Disable Device I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life II
Enhancement: Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic I
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic II
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic III
Enhancement: Cleric Life Magic IV
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration I
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration II
Enhancement: Cleric Improved Spell Penetration III
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot I
Enhancement: Cleric Energy of the Zealot II
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom I
Enhancement: Cleric Wisdom II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Cleric Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

It should still be able to get off some nice Blade Barriers this way.

[nelyn]

This looks Very good. I appreciate you making the effort to do the full build with the planner.

I will go over this with him, and might even roll one myself. I imagine it would be fun running with two of these in the lower level dungeons then getting into groups for the higher content.

Again, thanks.

[AylinIsAwesome]

This looks Very good. I appreciate you making the effort to do the full build with the planner.

I will go over this with him, and might even roll one myself. I imagine it would be fun running with two of these in the lower level dungeons then getting into groups for the higher content.

Again, thanks.

No problem.

[LAWPRE]

IMO - I would take Rogue 2 at 3rd level. Early on, you need evasion for the less squishy factor. This means less sp spent on healing.

[AylinIsAwesome]

IMO - I would take Rogue 2 at 3rd level. Early on, you need evasion for the less squishy factor. This means less sp spent on healing.

I threw it in late because taking it at level 3 would have been a waste of skill points.

He'll be able to get by without Evasion for many levels; many characters do.

[ArloOne]

IMHO- I don't really reccomend that build. Your friend should try making a rogue/ranger. They can heal and hit, not to mention take care of trap duties.
I personally feel, the lack of being able to hit monsters in melee will be a frustrating way to play. And it looks like the reccomended build will accomplish just that. Although, I could be wrong...sure think I am right.

Just my 2 cents.

[Gol]

IMO - I would take Rogue 2 at 3rd level. Early on, you need evasion for the less squishy factor. This means less sp spent on healing.

Disagree. Wear heavy armor and don't splash Rogue 2 until at least level 11 after you can res, but preferably until level 13 and you have Heal.

[Impaqt]

IMO - I would take Rogue 2 at 3rd level. Early on, you need evasion for the less squishy factor. This means less sp spent on healing.

Evasion isnt really that big of a benefit until your in the Gianthold. Even then, Getting balde barrier sooner is better.

IMHO- I don't really reccomend that build. Your friend should try making a rogue/ranger. They can heal and hit, not to mention take care of trap duties.
I personally feel, the lack of being able to hit monsters in melee will be a frustrating way to play. And it looks like the reccomended build will accomplish just that. Although, I could be wrong...sure think I am right.

Just my 2 cents.

A Ranger cannot heal anywhere near a Cleric. We're talking about newer players here. I'm sure if swinging a sword was a priority to him, he would look at a different direction.

[Anderei]

@nelyn, you might have a look at my newbie cleroque:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=230165

AylinIsAwesome build looks fine too. However, and maybe its me being too newbish, yes, UMD is great and all that, but on a devine caster I consider it more secondary than on any other build since you can use any devine wand/scroll naturally. Yes, Stoneskin wand is nice, ignoring RaceRestriction comfortable, neutral alignment with pure good weapons nice, but since this is a skill sparse build needing a lot of skills I think you can miss out on it. On a newbie I would stack spot, since that eases things (and as cleric you got great wisdom eitherway), and some OpenLock, since you don't want to be looked down as uncapable rogue once there is a locked chest/door and you cannot do it, even with a lot of rolls. Also you can go down a few levels on search, since the devine spell "search traps" will give you some bonus a pure rogue misses out.

Agree the second rogue level can wait easily until lvl 11 (this is what I did), below that heavy armor is useful, after around that lvl not anymore, also until you get lvl 10 on a cleric, you really want to open as many spells as possible (e.g. raise dead)