Fighter > Paladin/Rogue Reincarnation build, advice needed!

[Khellendros13]

I have been thinking about what to reincarnate my fighter into for a while. I have thought about 12/6/2 builds, 18/2 fighter/rogue and some ideas with Barbarian.

The more interesting one for me though, and that has DPS, UMD for scroll healing and raise dead, and self buffage with spells is a Paladin with Rogue splash.

To pump charisma for Divine Might IV I decided against twf (and to play with thf for a change) and dumped dex...but will still have +30 ref with a haste and GH.

I feel this offers a lot over my current Kensai Dwarf fighter, such as a UMD of 41, self buffing with SP, high saves all around and evasion. While still having a +8 dmg clicky and the awesome burst DPS of a KotC Paladin.

It should also be a lot more fun and easier to solo quests.

So any and all feedback is welcome on how I may improve the build, switch feats around etc.
One question is Concentration...sshould I keep it or lose it?

I plan on starting with Carnifex at level 4, then Falchions at level 6 (I have some decent elemental of pure good).

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.18
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Felgor 
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 354
Spell Points: 245 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 18
Will: 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    24
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             18                    20

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3   (in the bank)
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7    (in a friends bank :D)
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7         (in the bank)
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11 (in the bank)

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     4
Bluff                 4                     5
Concentration         4                    26
Diplomacy             4                     5
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                4                     5
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            4                     5
Jump                  7                    15
Listen                3                     4
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock             3                     4
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  3                     4
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                3                     4
Use Magic Device      8                    28

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Force of Personality
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I

Gear I have:
Leviks Bracers = 30str
Spectral Gloves = 15 Dex, +2 hit, ghost touch
Boots of the Innocent/Madstone = 15% striding and +5 resistance. Madstone for some boss fights..maybe.
Minos = +20hp, Heavy Fort
Veriks Necklace = +2 action boosts, +6 con
Greater False life belt = +30 HP (have poison and disease immunity belts which are moot...)
Breastplate of destruction = Until I get DT robes or light armour
Rings = Free slots as I had disease immunity and solid fog, obviously a ToD ring can fit in here and a +6 wis ring
Cloak = Soon to be crafted air guard SP cloak, with +6cha skills
Bloodstone
Tharnes Goggles

Apart from crafting a GS falchion, and GS hp item, the gear I have should be fine, but any thoughts are most welcome. ToD ring is a given, eventually!

Self Buffed Saves (GH and +5 resistance)
Fortitude: 36
Reflex: 29
Will: 32

To Hit +37/+32 w/PA (gloves, +5 falchion, +6str item, fighter past life) - Missing anything?
AC - Not going to bother, but in Breastplate of Destruction: AC 28 haha
HP - 460-500

Thank you in advance, sorry for the long post!

[Hadrian]

Keep concentration if you have any plans to heal yourself with spell points or scrolls during combat.

Healing with spell points can mean less swings lost because you don't need to unequip your weapon, so consider that.

Also, I wanted to comment on giving up TWF for divine might 4.

It seems to me that, excluding the epic SoS, this would actually result in less DPS because of the way paladin abilities such as smite "double hit" with TWF and also because of how KotC's damage works on a to-hit basis.

I am not sure exactly how much damage this will cost you, but I'd find it hard to believe that 2 damage per swing would make up for it.

Now if your plan is to build around the epic SoS, then none of that really matters.

[Khellendros13]

Keep concentration if you have any plans to heal yourself with spell points or scrolls during combat.

Healing with spell points can mean less swings lost because you don't need to unequip your weapon, so consider that.

Also, I wanted to comment on giving up TWF for divine might 4.

It seems to me that, excluding the epic SoS, this would actually result in less DPS because of the way paladin abilities such as smite "double hit" with TWF and also because of how KotC's damage works on a to-hit basis.

I am not sure exactly how much damage this will cost you, but I'd find it hard to believe that 2 damage per swing would make up for it.

Now if your plan is to build around the epic SoS, then none of that really matters.

Thanks, and I understand about the smites on the twf hooks, same as with trip. That slipped my mind and is something to consider...but that would mean going to Khopesh, and I would most likely give up extend if I went that path. Or Longswords for something in between.

I guess my reasoning is I want something different to twf, and I just don't have the scales (or time to farm shroud daily) for 2 weapons + SP cloak. Something else to consider anyway.

Epic SoS would be a dream...so I am not building around that, and if I was I would go pure pally (or lesser reincarnate to pure).

[Greydeath]

Apart from crafting a GS falchion

Holy Sword

[Hadrian]

I guess my reasoning is I want something different to twf, and I just don't have the scales (or time to farm shroud daily) for 2 weapons + SP cloak. Something else to consider anyway.

As the other poster said, you could substitute holy swords until you can get what you need together for green steel.

Also, if you did do this I would drop force of personality for EWP: Khopesh. You should have plenty of will saves just from being a paladin with a decent charisma score and some basic gear.

[Khellendros13]

Holy Sword

This? http://compendium.ddo.com/wiki/Spell:Holy_Sword

I assume the spell is actually different...but what is the actual effect? I thought it was cold iron, silver, holy burst of pure good, but the spell description confuses me.

As the other poster said, you could substitute holy swords until you can get what you need together for green steel.

Also, if you did do this I would drop force of personality for EWP: Khopesh. You should have plenty of will saves just from being a paladin with a decent charisma score and some basic gear.

Yep I looked at it again and FoP is only +4 extra will save going twf, so still +28 without it. Str would be 28 and I could use the extra 4 AP from DMIV for another 10% healing amp and turn undead.

I will redo the build when I get a chance, thanks guys.

[Khellendros13]

Updated for Khopesh:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.18
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Felgor 
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(18 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 364
Spell Points: 245 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 20
Will: 14

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    22
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence          8                    10
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             16                    18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     7
Bluff                 3                     4
Concentration         4                    26
Diplomacy             3                     4
Disable Device       n/a                    n/a
Haggle                3                     4
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate            3                     4
Jump                  6                    14
Listen                3                     4
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             6                     7
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                     0
Search               -1                     0
Spot                  3                     4
Swim                  2                     6
Tumble                6                     7
Use Magic Device      7                    27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite II
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite III
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite IV
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Turning II

[Lozareth]

It seems to me that, excluding the epic SoS, this would actually result in less DPS because of the way paladin abilities such as smite "double hit" with TWF and also because of how KotC's damage works on a to-hit basis.

KotC damage has a 100% proc rate on glancing blows so that doesn't suffer at all with a thf build. Double smites and sacrifices are still very nice though.

[Hadrian]

KotC damage has a 100% proc rate on glancing blows so that doesn't suffer at all with a thf build. Double smites and sacrifices are still very nice though.

Unless they've changed it, you don't get a glancing blow on every swing even with GTHF. You do get an off-hand attack on every swing with GTWF, though.

[Anthios888]

Divine Might 4 is not available until level 20 paladin. This build cannot pick it up so it is a mistake to change your build around for it.

Edit: Link for your convenience

[Khellendros13]

Divine Might 4 is not available until level 20 paladin. This build cannot pick it up so it is a mistake to change your build around for it.

Edit: Link for your convenience

Ahh that makes sense now, I thought the character planner was bugged - didn't see the Paladin 20 requirement.

Looks like I made the same mistake with Divine Sacrifice III, needs Paladin 19.

So now I need to decide if I will stick with the 2 rogue levels for UMD and evasion over 2d6 damage with Divine Sacrifice. I think it is.

[Greydeath]

You do get an off-hand attack on every swing with GTWF, though.

No

[Hadrian]

No

Thank you for that wonderful and insightful post. You actually do and can easily look it up to verify.

ITWF and GTWF both grant additional off-hand attacks. With GTWF there is an off-hand attack for each main-hand attack.

[Khellendros13]

Thank you all for the advice, especially Hadrian.

I have decided to actually go Barbarian, makes a bit more sense with the loot I have, and I aim to self heal with silver flame pots eventually. Still keen on this idea, but as a new 32pt build at some stage.

Cheers