Arcane Spell Casters - The Red-headed stepchild of DDO

[Chai]

2500 point spell crits with an 18% chance (sans raid gear) apparently isnt enough. Now we need PREs to make them even more powerful.

Wizards / Sorcs can already solo many zones that melee find impossible or at least MUCH harder to solo.

You could package up any of the fire / ice / acid / lightning / force etc...spec of casters into a "prestige" if you wanted to. Also, Necromancer seems to be a viable build with higher DC death spells and negative energy effects.

90% of the casters I see are still fire / ice though.

Alot of the wizard prestige classes had requirements that are not in DDO, like knowledge skills etc. and are harder to adapt to a video game than melee classes. Also - alot of the PnP prestige classes use spells that are not in the video game DDO. Casters have VERY shortened spell lists in DDO from their PnP counterparts. In order to adapt these prestige classes they would have to put more spells into the game. Its still possible but it will take some time to do.

[bobbryan2]

Not that I don't agree with everything you posted...

But uh... arcane casters have it pretty good compared to divine casters, especially favored souls.

Hell, favored souls don't even have ToD rings, let alone any epic items.

I mean....
Epic Bejeweled Letter Opener - (Weapon) +6 Dagger (base dmg: 2d4), Thundering, Keen, Improved Resonance VII, Superior Devotion VII, Empty Red Augment Slot

Superior Devo VII? That doesn't even hit mass cure crit, let alone mass heal.

Epic Shining Crest of St. Markus - (Helmet) Deathblock, Improved Devotion VIII, Greater Healing Lore, Empty Green Augment Slot

Improved Devo VIII and greater healing lore? Stop the presses.

I wouldn't wear any of these if they were sold in House J... let alone grinded out in epic content.

[Aspenor]

Not that I don't agree with everything you posted...

But uh... arcane casters have it pretty good compared to divine casters, especially favored souls.

Hell, favored souls don't even have ToD rings, let alone any epic items.

I mean....
Epic Bejeweled Letter Opener - (Weapon) +6 Dagger (base dmg: 2d4), Thundering, Keen, Improved Resonance VII, Superior Devotion VII, Empty Red Augment Slot

Superior Devo VII? That doesn't even hit mass cure crit, let alone mass heal.

Epic Shining Crest of St. Markus - (Helmet) Deathblock, Improved Devotion VIII, Greater Healing Lore, Empty Green Augment Slot

Improved Devo VIII and greater healing lore? Stop the presses.

I wouldn't wear any of these if they were sold in House J... let alone grinded out in epic content.

Stay on topic, you!

[mikelovskij]

2500 point spell crits with an 18% chance (sans raid gear) apparently isnt enough. Now we need PREs to make them even more powerful.

Wizards / Sorcs can already solo many zones that melee find impossible or at least MUCH harder to solo.

You could package up any of the fire / ice / acid / lightning / force etc...spec of casters into a "prestige" if you wanted to. Also, Necromancer seems to be a viable build with higher DC death spells and negative energy effects.

90% of the casters I see are still fire / ice though.

Alot of the wizard prestige classes had requirements that are not in DDO, like knowledge skills etc. and are harder to adapt to a video game than melee classes. Also - alot of the PnP prestige classes use spells that are not in the video game DDO. Casters have VERY shortened spell lists in DDO from their PnP counterparts. In order to adapt these prestige classes they would have to put more spells into the game. Its still possible but it will take some time to do.

The problem is that now the only option for a caster is to nuke, because every update that comes nerfes cc.
I want to play D&D online because it's different from others mmorpg, because the only thing that counts is not damage,damage damage and heals. I want to block enemies, weaken them,make them more vulnerable, slow them down ecc....
imho you can delete the dmg enhancement from wizard's list and make some different ones (dc bonus, lenght bonus,magic school specializations, bonus spell slots ecc..)

[Delacroix21]

I never understood "nerf wall of fire" threads. To be honest they seem to be the only times when I really notice caster dps... its sad but true.


It seems in DDO casters either cast instant death spells, buffs, and wall of fire. Sure there are some polar rays etc. occasionaly thrown out there (not to mention webs), but casters in DDO no way live up to what is intended of them in DnD. Am I caster biased? Absolutely not! In fact I have yet to PLAY a caster past level 4 (hehe, he starts at level 4).


I think casters should go back to DnD style, few spells a day, but when they throw one its like "holy dookie batman!" In DDO metamagics arent a bonus to damage, they are 100% necessary! Not a single person I know of casts wall of fire, polar ray, blade barrier, etc. without BOTH maximize and empower on. That is certainly not the way things SHOULD be, these feats should be a bonus, not the balancing factor for caster dps.


So here is what I suggest...


1. DDO spell damage gets doubled across the board!
2. Maximize and Empower work the way the USED to, and have a MASSIVE magic cost


This should get casters throwing bread and butter spells often, and for some quality damage. Maxmize and empower with increase this damage in a huge way, but for a huge cost. Dropping a maxxed and empowered spell will be enormous damage (at least double current damage) but will cost 4 times as much as current!


Heck! I dont know if my suggestions will help at all, but something does need to be done to help arcanes (or dare I say... battle casting divines!)

[Maegin]

This is a very interesting thread. I just hope it stays on topic more.

my 2kpp.

Continue.

[oweieie]

There are a lot of problems with casters and a lot of difference from PnP.

Summon Monster, 9 of a caster's spells, are basically useless. The best summoner in the game isn't an 18th level wizard or cleric but any level 11 with a few shroud clickies which let you have many superior pets out at once. In PnP monsters were useful for absorbing hits, blocking areas, special attacks and the like and you could summon many. In DDO all of this is true of the earth elemental clicky from shroud but not of the spells. DDO monsters should at least be doing some useful things, spiders dropping webs that have a DC high enough to be useful, Hezrou that trip, trolls that stun etc.

Monster DCs are just flat out higher than in PnP making anything but no-save spells like Polar Ray and Wall of Fire of questionable use. I think the main culprit here is wail, implosion, sphere of dancing and mass charm. Without mass kill spells the DCs could be dropped on mobs making them more susceptible to damage based spells. Or simply raise the DC on the less deadly spells that are damage based like chain lightning.

Disinitigrate, Horrid Wilting and the like which aren't elemental don't have enhancement support so are pointless as they're taking the double whammy of having a save and doing less damage with less crits. Two of the nicer spells in PnP. Having limited elemental specialization for casters was a mistake. Having to spend 22 enhancement points on a pair of elements on top of having to spend points on spell penetration was also a mistake.

Debuffs that are useful in PnP are pointless in DDO since trash dies so quickly and bosses are immune there is no reason to load up slow or ray of enfeeblement. And when a boss isn't immune, like Crushing Despair, they pretty much have to roll a 1 for it to land, making it pointless. These spells should still work on bosses just with reduced effect making them somewhat useful and making a wizard feel like there was some point in having those extra spells slots.

Power Words and other HD or or HP limited spells like Circle of Undeath, Symbol of Death etc. are utter useless garbage. Get rid of the HP limit. Is power word blind really so powerful that it has to be made useless when radiance guard on my dragon touched does it irrespective of HPs? Oh, and while you're at it, fix the blind effect, stoned, paralyzed and stunned mobs wandering around because they have blind on is a really stupid bug.

Over half of our abbreviated spell list is simply not worth casting. Once you add in the fact that you pretty much have to specialize to one element pair, typically fire/cold because of firewall/polar ray, you can add in a bunch more spells to the useless pile for a caster.

[Catholicon]

How about an item that reduces the cost of all cure spells by 10 SP?

[Kriogen]

People will hate me for this, but ...

Casters situation will only improve, when we get mana regeneration. Reasons:
- Wall of Fire is very weak spell, but used now, because it's mana efficient -> other damage spells would be used more, we could really talk about casters DPS
- HS can't be implemented now, becasue it would kill CC. The main problem is cost or 'out of mana'. As mana is very limited, you only cast if it makes a huge difference. Becasue of HS, any form of CC is a total waste. Not so with mana regen. Even if CC lasts only 6 seconds, you'd use it so stop initial attacks and so prevent some damage, main reason why CC is used
- debuffs would be used more. Do you ever cast Slow spell now? I don't, becasue its a total waste of mana. Spell does work, i tested, but it's waste of mana

Oh, I don't buy mana pots.

I'm also 100% sure mana regen will never be implemented. It would fix all casters problems, but devs will never do it. So it will never be better for casters. Casters are and allways will be just a fancy haste bot.

Side note: I wanted to level up Wizard18/Rogue2, caster with utility. It will now be Wizard17/Rogue2/Fighter1. SoS is 'martial weapon', right?

[mikelovskij]

People will hate me for this, but ...

Casters situation will only improve, when we get mana regeneration. Reasons:
- Wall of Fire is very weak spell, but used now, because it's mana efficient -> other damage spells would be used more, we could really talk about casters DPS
- HS can't be implemented now, becasue it would kill CC. The main problem is cost or 'out of mana'. As mana is very limited, you only cast if it makes a huge difference. Becasue of HS, any form of CC is a total waste. Not so with mana regen. Even if CC lasts only 6 seconds, you'd use it so stop initial attacks and so prevent some damage, main reason why CC is used
- debuffs would be used more. Do you ever cast Slow spell now? I don't, becasue its a total waste of mana. Spell does work, i tested, but it's waste of mana

Oh, I don't buy mana pots.

I'm also 100% sure mana regen will never be implemented. It would fix all casters problems, but devs will never do it. So it will never be better for casters. Casters are and allways will be just a fancy haste bot.

Side note: I wanted to level up Wizard18/Rogue2, caster with utility. It will now be Wizard17/Rogue2/Fighter1. SoS is 'martial weapon', right?

The problem is not only mana eficency but also speed: u can have all the mana you want but if while you cast slow or some slow spell like the clouds the dps of your party have already killed trash mobs... and the other mobs will make save... we need also a wider AoE and casting speed (not faster cooldown, just faster casting) or some debuff improving enhancement (why there are only dmg boosting enhancements?)

[Kriogen]

The problem is not only mana eficency but also speed: u can have all the mana you want but if while you cast slow or some slow spell like the clouds the dps of your party have already killed trash mobs... and the other mobs will make save... we need also a wider AoE and casting speed (not faster cooldown, just faster casting) or some debuff improving enhancement (why there are only dmg boosting enhancements?)

Yup. Warriors have insane damage output in this game. And infinite 'stamina' on top of that.

Debuffs are not used, because trash dies in mili-seconds by the hands of beserkers and big mobs have super high saves and/or SR or are just immune. So why waste mana on Slow, if Haste is many times more efficient.

[Razcar]

In terms of Epic gear, it seems casters are in better shape than finesse builds. Oh, maybe Weapon Finesse isn't an approved character choice anymore...

Finessable epics: Sting, Ancient Vulkoorim Dagger, Flint, Zephyr, Greenblade, and Bejeweled Letter Opener. That's all, right? Epic Sting is inferior to something with Wounding and Puncturing, while the others are inferior to tier 2 greensteel.

The named loot has been the weakest part in DDO development for some time in my opinion, with quest art and quest writing being the strongest. From frequent misspellings in the lacklustre flavour texts (or the "fun" ones on the Mod 8 loot when that came out, most were added to after player complaints however Icy Rainment still talks about "banishing"), strange choices in effects, and very one-sided offers (like the OP says).

[Zereth501]

I have a suggestion to fix casters'dps with minimal effort at http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=226808 but it received little support.

Anyway, I think the problem with casters is not lack of loot. Since most players play melees, the game was balanced around them. It's the case in pretty much any RPG I played.

I'm actually ok with nerfing wall of fire if the issues about casters are fixed, making them viable without the one spell. Though just to be fair, maybe we should nerf greensteel weapons too? Don't hit me, I'm joking!

Also, heroic surge on monsters could be a good idea... If it replaces the immunities.

[Zereth501]

How about an item that reduces the cost of all cure spells by 10 SP?

We would see a lot more cure light wound.

[mikelovskij]

I have a suggestion to fix casters'dps with minimal effort at http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=226808 but it received little support.

Anyway, I think the problem with casters is not lack of loot. Since most players play melees, the game was balanced around them. It's the case in pretty much any RPG I played.

I'm actually ok with nerfing wall of fire if the issues about casters are fixed, making them viable without the one spell. Though just to be fair, maybe we should nerf greensteel weapons too? Don't hit me, I'm joking!

Also, heroic surge on monsters could be a good idea... If it replaces the immunities.

It's exactly what i DONT want the casters (or at least wizards) in DDO to become: nukers. Nuking it should be an option, not a must to do.
I don't want dps as only option. First let's improve debuffs, don't nerf cc and improve high level spells.(dmg spells too)

[Aesop]

Make Damage enhancements have improved effect on higher level spells to counter the lack of external static boost.

give cc effects sub effects that work on Red and possibly Purple mobs. or at least reduce blanket immunities.

reduce casting time but increase cooldown for persistent AoEs (clouds and such)

increase the time per tic for WoF


other things

running late must go

Aesop

[Angelus_dead]

So here is what I suggest...
1. DDO spell damage gets doubled across the board!
2. Maximize and Empower work the way the USED to, and have a MASSIVE magic cost

That's pretty funny. Yesterday I started to type up a suggest that strongly resembled that, but I didn't post it because I didn't want to get into the complexity of explaining it all.

My suggestion was the same as one I made when the module 5 release notes came out, which announced the change to metamagic costs. It differs from yours in an important way.
1. The costs for Maximize and Empower are changed from adding a certain number of spellpoints to multiplying the cost by a percentage. And the progress-bar delay to activate metamagic is removed.
2. The spellpoint costs for most damaging spells (maybe excluding Wall of Fire and BB) are reduced. They now have a 70% (or some good number) reduction to cost applied after metamagics are added.

The result of those changes would be that turning on Maximize and Empower is now a choice to increase damage-per-second throughput at the cost of damage-per-mana efficiency. The current version of Maximize and Empower increase both throughput and efficiency, so there is rarely a decision to make about if you want them on or off. After the change (and depending on what the cost-discount multiplier is) caster players would have more total damage in their mana bars, but couldn't speed it up without reducing the total they can output.

This would serve to fix a problem with sorc/wiz DPS, where it tends to fall into distinct outcomes depending on situation:
1. The caster easily blasts down bunches of enemies, and barely gives other party members time to hit anything.
2. The caster can only dent the enemy's health if he pours most of his mana bar into doing so.

The gameplay would be better if situations between those two extremes happened more often.

[Monkey_Archer]

Good epic caster gear will get here eventually... a wittle wAbbot told me

[Spisey]

Good epic caster gear will get here eventually... a wittle wAbbot told me

/drool

[oweieie]

Good epic caster gear will get here eventually... a wittle wAbbot told me

Too bad casters will never get it since the melee vacuum up all the scrolls. What an amazing mechanic that was. Worked so badly in Diablo 2, lets copy it!