Epic SoS makes THF king, but it's not barbs who get the throne!

[Aaxeyu]

Or is it that your DPS calculator has an error, that any Str added by BS (and other effects) is not multiplied by 1.5 for using a THW? Would explain why you have 88 and not 89.

Indeed. And I cba to fix it as bladesworn is implemented in a less than perfect way, gonna redo the whole bladesworn when I get some time over.

1 damage however, does not make any significant difference. It's 5 DPS.
It doesn't change anything.

Why are you still here?

[TechNoFear]

Indeed. And I cba to fix it as bladesworn is implemented in a less than perfect way, gonna redo the whole bladesworn when I get some time over.

1 damage however, does not make any significant difference. It's 5 DPS.
It doesn't change anything.

Not easy to get you to check your calculations is it?
I have to interpret your values, eliminate all other possibilities one by one (with little to no help from you) before I can actually spot the error and get you to fix it.

The difference between the fighter and paladin is ~6 DPS.
You forgot each DS and ES, which will add more than enough so the paladin has a higher 1 min DPS than the fighter.

Also if the Str's had been different then the 'rounding error' would have occured (The error I mentioned was not that you rounded, but that you rounded each number individually, where the game adds all then rounds. Sorry I failed to make that clear enough for you to understand.)

floor(((40-10)/2)*1.5)) + floor(((2/2)*1.5)) != floor(((40+2-10)/2)*1.5)

[The floor() function rounds down to the nearest integer.]

[Aaxeyu]

The difference between the fighter and paladin is ~6 DPS.
You forgot each DS and ES, which will add more than enough so the paladin has a higher 1 min DPS than the fighter.

It's 5 DPS, and it's not enough to bring the paladin over the fighters DPS, even at the extremely biased 1 mintue calc. I'm sorry, but you lose.

Also if the Str's had been different then the 'rounding error' would have occured (The error I mentioned was not that you rounded, but that you rounded each number individually, where the game adds all then rounds. Sorry I failed to make that clear enough for you to understand.)

[TechNoFear]

You never asked for help.

But I thought you did in the OP.

Let me know I i screwed up somewhere or if you want me to calc another class/multiclass.

I wanted some questions answered and got abuse in response.

You do not treat people with any respect and then wonder why no one treats you with respect.

It's 5 DPS, and it's not enough to bring the paladin over the fighters DPS,

Each error brings us closer to the truth and the truth will set you free....

Now there is less than 1 DPS difference between a paladin and fighter over 1 min. If we run the changes for DS and ES there will be none.

even at the extremely biased 1 mintue calc

Why was your attitude different when I said 5 min was biased?

Which was my point; the time period we use is biased to one class or other.

Short periods favor the paladin where >1min to 5 mins is the fighters optimum.

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Why was your attitude different when I said 5 min was biased?

It's biased because a 1 min fights isn't resonable, as said by a LOT of posters when we first started doing calcs, whilst 5 minutes is more than resonable.

You can make a case for both, but 1 min calcs are more biased to paladins than 5 mins are to fighters. It's as if comparing a 20 sec fight with a fighter to a 20 sec fight with a barbarian. Ie, incredibly biased.

[TechNoFear]

It's biased because a 1 min fights isn't resonable, as said by a LOT of posters when we first started doing calcs, whilst 5 minutes is more than resonable.

Unless you are a paladin with an epic Silvered SOS you will not be using a SOS against a boss (because of the DR).

I can't think of any non boss fight that lasts more than a few seconds let alone a whole minute (in which a fighter would use the SOS).

Got a few examples?

[Absolute-Omniscience]

Unless you are a paladin with an epic Silvered SOS you will not be using a SOS against a boss (because of the DR).

I can't think of any non boss fight that lasts more than a few seconds let alone a whole minute (in which a fighter would use the SOS).

Got a few examples?

Even against 10-20 dr the sos deals more damage than a mineral. Anyhoo, there is no such fight, but there are certinally quests where you go 1+ mins between the shrines. Counting it "there's only X fights between them" would benefit the fighter even more, as in a real quest you go at maybe 80% haste boost efficiency in the fights, as they rarely last longer than 20 seconds, and they're often less than 10 fights between the shrines if you're an able rusher.

[TechNoFear]

Even against 10-20 dr the sos deals more damage than a mineral.

I was wrong about using a SOS against a boss like Harry.

I ran some numbers based on Shroud normal (15 DR + 50% fort) and got the following results.

All assuming;

50% fort,
same character and buffs (inc ImpCrit),
GS Min2 Falcion: [2D6 15%/x2 Holy, Acid burst, Good Blast, Slicing, beats DR]
GS Min2 Grt Sword: [3D6 10%/x2 Holy, Acid burst, Good Blast, Slicing, beats DR]
SOS [+10 4D6 15%/x4]
Using 'twitch' style so 50% attacks get glances.
Effects proc on glances 15% of the time.

The rows are the 'extra' damage the character gets from abilities and buffs (song, kensai, spells, etc) that is added to Str damage when calc a crit.
The columns are the different DRs.
The results are the Str required to make the Epic SOS a better choice than a Min2.

Falcion
			15 DR	20 DR	25 DR
20 extra 		43	61	78
30 extra 		37	54	72
40 extra 		30	47	65
			
Grt Sword			
			15 DR	20 DR	25 DR
20 extra 		33	46	59
30 extra 		27	39	52
40 extra 		20	33	45

20 extra is very low for a DPS, possibly only after a death or 2.
30 extra is just a median.
40 is approx I would expect from a character with both an Epic SOS and MIn2 GS Falcion/Grt Sword in a raid party.

[Hydro]

I was wrong about using a SOS against a boss like Harry.

I ran some numbers based on Shroud normal (15 DR + 50% fort) and got the following results.

All assuming;

50% fort,
same character and buffs (inc ImpCrit),
GS Min2 Falcion: [2D6 15%/x2 Holy, Acid burst, Good Blast, Slicing, beats DR]
GS Min2 Grt Sword: [3D6 10%/x2 Holy, Acid burst, Good Blast, Slicing, beats DR]
SOS [+10 4D6 15%/x4]
Using 'twitch' style so 50% attacks get glances.
Effects proc on glances 15% of the time.

The rows are the 'extra' damage the character gets from abilities and buffs (song, kensai, spells, etc) that is added to Str damage when calc a crit.
The columns are the different DRs.
The results are the Str required to make the Epic SOS a better choice than a Min2.

Falcion
			15 DR	20 DR	25 DR
20 extra 		43	61	78
30 extra 		37	54	72
40 extra 		30	47	65
			
Grt Sword			
			15 DR	20 DR	25 DR
20 extra 		33	46	59
30 extra 		27	39	52
40 extra 		20	33	45

20 extra is very low for a DPS, possibly only after a death or 2.
30 extra is just a median.
40 is approx I would expect from a character with both an Epic SOS and MIn2 GS Falcion/Grt Sword in a raid party.

I am sorry but I dont get your chart for a barb with lets say 60 STR what DR does the SoS start to fall behind a Min2?

[A_Sheep]

I was wrong about using a SOS against a boss like Harry.

I ran some numbers based on Shroud normal (15 DR + 50% fort) and got the following results.

All assuming;

50% fort,
same character and buffs (inc ImpCrit),
GS Min2 Falcion: [2D6 15%/x2 Holy, Acid burst, Good Blast, Slicing, beats DR]
GS Min2 Grt Sword: [3D6 10%/x2 Holy, Acid burst, Good Blast, Slicing, beats DR]
SOS [+10 4D6 15%/x4]
Using 'twitch' style so 50% attacks get glances.
Effects proc on glances 15% of the time.

The rows are the 'extra' damage the character gets from abilities and buffs (song, kensai, spells, etc) that is added to Str damage when calc a crit.
The columns are the different DRs.
The results are the Str required to make the Epic SOS a better choice than a Min2.

Falcion
			15 DR	20 DR	25 DR
20 extra 		43	61	78
30 extra 		37	54	72
40 extra 		30	47	65
			
Grt Sword			
			15 DR	20 DR	25 DR
20 extra 		33	46	59
30 extra 		27	39	52
40 extra 		20	33	45

20 extra is very low for a DPS, possibly only after a death or 2.
30 extra is just a median.
40 is approx I would expect from a character with both an Epic SOS and MIn2 GS Falcion/Grt Sword in a raid party.

But my bard uses a greatclub, not a falchion. Can you add that to the calc for me?
/troll

Kudos to axeyu and A_O for some really good maths and answering the litany of questions about your dps calculators. I'll be honest, I have some trouble understanding the output myself, but it's the most detailed output from any calc so far. I'll have to download it and take it apart to see how it works.

[Hydro]

From the Fighter Calculations:

Critical Hits
8 Seeker from item
7 Critical threat range (How does a fighter have a 7 Critical Threat Range, 14-20 is 6...)4 Critical multiplier
388 Base critical damage
1 Effects
0 <Element> Burst
0 <Element> Blast
0 Alignment Burst
0 Alignment Blast
0 Natural 20
64 Total seeker damage (How does a fighter have 64 seeker damage, seeker enhancements do not add damage..)
0 Critical Effects
453 Critical Total

Questions in Bold...

[Arctigis]

From the Fighter Calculations:

Critical Hits
8 Seeker from item
7 Critical threat range (How does a fighter have a 7 Critical Threat Range, 14-20 is 6...)4 Critical multiplier
388 Base critical damage
1 Effects
0 <Element> Burst
0 <Element> Blast
0 Alignment Burst
0 Alignment Blast
0 Natural 20
64 Total seeker damage (How does a fighter have 64 seeker damage, seeker enhancements do not add damage..)
0 Critical Effects
453 Critical Total

Questions in Bold...

14 - 20 is 7 ( 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20) - Fighter gets +1 from Kensei III

Kensei Weapon Specialisation I && II add +4 seeker (including damage) each when THF. With
an epic bloodstone, that's +16 x 4 = 64. -16 damage from seeker alone now with
the nerfed multiplier

[Hydro]

14 - 20 is 7 ( 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20) - Fighter gets +1 from Kensei III

Kensei Weapon Specialisation I && II add +4 seeker (including damage) each when THF. With
an epic bloodstone, that's +16 x 4 = 64. -16 damage from seeker alone now with
the nerfed multiplier

Gotcha thanks for the help, did not realese the bonus added to damage.