Noobie Question: Rogue Build.

[KingDrakmar]

Hello fellow DDO and Khyber players alike. I am very new to this game since just starting yesturday, and I was wondering if their are any experienced players that have played the Rogue class, that could possibly give me a good build to go off of as a lvl my character. Since this is my first character and I become quite attached to my characters over hours of playing I am coming to you becuase I do not wish to mess up my first charcater to badly in my first go around on this game.

Any help will be greartly appreciated and valued.

Thankyou for your time.

[gwlech]

I really hate to say this, but trying to be as respectful as I possibly can, I will tell you that a rogue is not a very good first character for most people, as it is very hard to build, equip, and play effectively.

I would recommend that you find another class (preferably pure with good self-healing) to use as your first character, so that you can get to know the game mechanics a little bit and then you will be more prepared to build that rogue you always dreamed of.

If you are deadset on having rogue abilities, then the easiest match from 1-20 would be a high str wiz/rogue build imo.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218205

Keep in mind it can do 95% or more of the traps in the game as well as locks. You will also need access to the Warforged race.

[Impaqt]

the only reason most folks dont enjoy their rogue from the start is because they make the mistake of thinking melee doesnt matter. They do fine in Korthos, maybe eventhe harbor, but after that, find that they are seriously gimped because everyone is runnign through traps and they cant hit anything to save thier life.

Its good that you came to the forums first.. However, there are literally dozens of rogue builds in the rogue forums. Do a little research. You'll find plenty of builds with good STR, UMD, and very good trap skills to boot.

[KingDrakmar]

Gwelch what kind of class would you sugest would be a good place to start then?

I can go read the forums on the classes that are good for begginers if anyone is willing to enlighten me on what those classes are.

Though I prefer to play a ranged character most of the time I just thought the sealth of the rogue would be fun =D.

Thanks again for any other advice you guys can give me.

[Disavowed]

As stated above. Kudos for coming on here and asking questions prior to rolling your toon. The advice given above is solid. A person can roll a rogue as a first toon but it's hard to do successfully. Rangers and rogues that can dish out & take damage take some insight to the game. It's different than P&P and harder to perfect because of game mechanics.

I would also add that you avoid a ranged toon right now as well. There is a place on here for ranged toons but right now there is a large surplus causing the game to get unbalanced, thus group leaders are avoiding rangers altogether. You will find it difficult to get into groups and even more difficult to stay in groups when you show up with a bow in hand. The way the game mechanics are set up it is impossible for a ranged toon to keep up with the damage of melee toons. As you get experience in the game you will see how a well built ranged toon playes and how he manages to keep agro away from himself allowing himself to be a better contributer to the party.

I know this isn't what you really wanted to hear as I was the same way when I started playing. The best way to learn this game is to do as mentioned above (gwelch I belive). Go melee with a toon that can self heal.

I would suggest a baseline fighter with a couple levels of rogue, ranger, or both. 2 ranger gets you 2 wep fighting for free regardless of dex and 2 rogue gets you evasion and UMD to use wands as rangers use wands automatically. You could go 2 ranger 2 rogue 16 fighter. What ever you do don't skimp on con as you WILL need your hp and find fortification items as you level until you get a heavy fort item.

Good luck feel free to ask more questions if you need to. I'd also suggest if your're stuck on being a rogue. Speak with Quicktoes. He has a great rogue build, but he's been playing a while and has access to gear that it may take you a year to acquire, but he could steer you in the right direction.

Good luck and enjoy the game. You're already ahead of most newbies just by being on here and asking questions.

[Inkblack]

If you are set on a rogue, a finesse rogue is fairly straightforward to play and you will get most of your damage from sneak attack anyway over strength. Below is a basic TWF/Finesse build:

Race:
Elf/Drow - bonuses to search/spot trap skills, extra damage with Rapiers
Halfling - best damage dealing race with cunning/guile enhancements
those are the two races I have recent experience in, but play what you like

Str - 12+
Dex - 16+
Con - 12+
Int - 12+
Wis - 8-12
Cha - 8-12
(I've left a few build points to make it your own, I think)
Put your level-up points into Dexterity

Skills:
The big 5: Disable Device, Open Lock, Search, Spot, Use Magic Device (UMD)
Others: Tumble, Jump, Balance, Diplomacy, Hide, Move Silently, Haggle

Feats:
Weapon Finesse -- helps put that high dexterity to use
Improved Critical: Piercing
Two Weapon Fighting Chain
Toughness
Power Attack (take at high level)
(I don't recommend Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting, you won't have a problem hitting at high levels anyway)

Enhancements:
Subtlety enhancements when you can get them (very important, and don't forget to turn it on)
Extra Dexterity enhancements
Backstab Damage enhancements
Backstab Accuracy enhancements
No more than the second level in trap skill enhancements (the big 5)
(You can respec these easily, so don't be afraid of making a mistake)

Gameplay:
- you don't need to sneak to backstab, unless you go with assassin (insta-death) enhancements. If you think you will go assassin, put some points into intelligence when you build your character.
- try to only hit things once the biggest baddest fighter has hit it. You are a glass cannon, so let them get aggro first. If something attacks you directly, try to lose aggro.
- when you join a group, tell them if you don't know the quest so they can help you with the trap locations
- try to keep up with spot/search/disable device/open lock equipment, the best you can use at your level. Open lock isn't quite as important.
- you only need to wear spot gear when you don't know where the traps are
- you can switch from spot equipment to search equipment after you get the trap warning icon
- once you find the trap box, you can change your search equipment out for disable device equipment
- bottom line, you don't have to wear your full trap gear all the time
- being a mechanic is ok, but you will want to change that when you get to high level
- soloing with a rogue is tough, until you get a radiance II weapon

Rogue 1st Characters:
- I did this 3 years ago. The game is different now, but hopefully I can provide some insight.
- If you just do traps, you will be labeled a bad rogue. Rogues spend far more time in combat. You better be able to do that too. Fortunately you can be trap capable without sinking all your build options into trap-smithing.
- Players expect you to know where traps are. If you don't know the quest, let the party know in advance. If there is someone in the quest that knows it, then they will likely help you with it. The non-verbal cue for "Trap box here!" is facing a wall and jumping up and down.
- Players will rely on your spot skill. If you see the little trap icon, tell everyone ASAP. Do your best Admiral Ackbar impression.
- Traps are important to (some) rogues. They aren't important to the other classes. A common complaint from rogues is that the group won't wait for them to disable the traps. If you disable them, they get experience. If they just run by them and don't wait, it's ok to forego the experience. If anyone complains, "I don't know the quest, so I had to keep up or get lost!" should shut them up.

Hope that helps,
Ink

[jkm]

if you have access to drow, the easiest character to learn the game with is a drow pally with dual rapiers. it is cheap, does great dps, and teaches you how the combat system works. understanding how to get smites to land is a very valuable skill for new players.

once you get the hang of this and 32 point characters, sweeping back and rolling a rogue is much easier. although you still have to learn to control aggro (whereas as a pally you just don't care).

[KingDrakmar]

I will have acess to the DROW race when I start the game later today.

Would anyone mind going a bit deeper into this Duel Wielding pally?

I tried to find the build on the paladin forums but it was a bit confusing trying to navigate the class threads seeing as I dont know all the lingo yet.

Thanks again for the help!

[gwlech]

I will have acess to the DROW race when I start the game later today.

Would anyone mind going a bit deeper into this Duel Wielding pally?

I tried to find the build on the paladin forums but it was a bit confusing trying to navigate the class threads seeing as I dont know all the lingo yet.

Thanks again for the help!

Building a two-weapon fighting character can be tricky for a new player.

The cookie-cutter stats for such a build on a drow is typically:

STR 16
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 10
WIS 8
CHA 16

your feats are usually:

1 Toughness
3 Two Weapon Fighting
6 Improved Two Weapon Fighting *
9 Improved Critical: Pierce
12 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
15 Power Attack
18 Extend

*17 base Dex (not including enhancements or items) MUST be at least 17!

Now since you are new, you are probably not going to have access to tomes, and I am assuming that you may not want to spend Turbine Points on a tome. You will need to either buy a +1 dex tome and eat it at level 3-5, or you will have to put your first level up point at level 4 into dex to make this build work. The rest of your level up points should go into strength.

Preferably, you should get a tome for dex, and put 4 level up points into strength, and your last one into charisma (so that with a +3 shroud tome, you can get the top rank of Divine Might)

Another very important thing to note, is that you need at least 11 wisdom to cast level 1 paladin spells, and a total of 14 to cast all of your paladin spells. By the time that you can cast level 4 spells, you should easily be able to get yourself a +6 wisdom item to wear to make this possible.

I am very doubtful that you are going to be able to get a hold of a +3 wisdom item at level 4 (when you can cast level 1 paladin spells) but they show up as soon at level 5 or 7 (depends...level 5 can be bound to character via a quest chain reward...i.e. threnal ruins, level 7 is the standard usually)

Without a tome for your wisdom, you spellcasting abilities will be crippled for the first few levels. It is a worthwhile tradeoff though, as it allows for you to pick up anything that is worthwhile for an optimized two-weapon fighting drow paladin. If you do your starting stats, or level up stats any other way, you will probably end up regretting if you plan on reaching cap.

For weapons:

Rapiers, along with Khopeshes, can be some of the most expensive weapons to get a hold of from other players. Since you are new, don't expect to be able to get that uber flaming of pure good and holy burst ownage weapon that you see, you are probably going to have to use longswords or other 1-handers from time to time(for the mods). You can "reliably" get a hold of vanilla rapiers +1 through +5 for a decent price, but anything elemental or holy may be expensive. (check the brokers in house D) Get regular unmodded rapiers for low levels and dont worry about stuff like flaming or holy unless the quest you are doing requires it. (save your money)

At level 14, your weapon problem practically dissapears. You can summon +5 holy burst weapons basically for free. These will work well for MOST situations.

Oh and, if you play a paladin, for the love of Khyber and everyone you group with, especially healers, make sure that you BUY CURE WANDS! You can buy cure light wounds wands for low levels fairly cheap (about 50 plat a piece - 50 charges) in the center area of the market. You should easily be able to afford these before you even get out of Korthos. They are alot cheaper than potions and will keep you alive a whole lot better than just a few charges of lay on hands.

[Disavowed]

+1 to both

King I can't promise but I think I have a +1 dex tome in the bank I will give you to get started on Gelch's pally build if I have one. Let me know who to send it to & look in your unconfirmed mail. I will be online around 7 P.M. tonight. If I can't find one I'll send you a P.M. on here letting you know.

[KingDrakmar]

I noticed while brousing the forums, that Kopesh is a rare weapon. And thus low lvls cannot use them. So is the rule of thumb to use rapiers until I can get a kopesh or avoid them all together? Or do drows come with the ability to use kopeshes right off the bat?

[gwlech]

I noticed while brousing the forums, that Kopesh is a rare weapon. And thus low lvls cannot use them. So is the rule of thumb to use rapiers until I can get a kopesh or avoid them all together? Or do drows come with the ability to use kopeshes right off the bat?

No, a Drow paladin will probably NOT use Khopeshes...that just an example of the most popular 1 handed weapon for damage...you will never want to use khopeshes with this build.

Rapiers are your weapon of choice, and you should aim to have those if possible, but they are a pretty good weapon, and as such are in higher demand.

Now if you were playing a human paladin, you would typically pick up khopesh as your bonus feat at level 1...but lets stick to drow for now imo

[KingDrakmar]

Ahh ok just wanted to clarify.

My name in game is Drakemar by the way, now that I have the path to create a good first character its time to start playing I think =D. So hit me up if anyone wants to chat =D.

[jkm]

here is a thread for you to read about your pally.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=218542

any rapiers will do for the first couple of levels. at 6, i suggest bodyfeeder rapiers, so that you can divine sacrafice your life away. the biggest problem levels are 11-13 where you need more dps from your weapon. at level 14 you get holy sword and you only really need a different weapon for neutral bad guys.

[Raegoul]

If you can get Monk as a class might i suggest a Drow Monk2/Pally the rest.

The Stats i suggest are 16 16 12 10 8 16

Feat wise might be something like:
1: Two Weapon Fighting
1M: Toughness
3: Oversized TwoWeapon Fighting
6: Toughness or Khopesh(Exotic) or Force of Personality
8M: Power Attack
9: Improved Crit. Piercing or Slashing(depends if you take Khopesh)
12: ITWF
15: GTWF
18: Toughness maybe or Force of Personality

[KingDrakmar]

Would just like to thank everyone for all the help today as I start this game. I will likely see you in game some time and would just like to say thankyou once again.

[Mts]

Not much I can say that the others haven't already. I second the recommendation to start with a Paly. Rogue's take a lot of gear and experience to be played as effectively as possible.

Look for me in game on one of my toons below and I'll set you up with some plat and gear. Just let me know you're from the forums.

[gwlech]

Would just like to thank everyone for all the help today as I start this game. I will likely see you in game some time and would just like to say thankyou once again.

You're Welcome. If you have any questions about the build feel free to send me a forum PM. Most of my active characters are on Thelanis, so I won't be active there for questions.

[jkm]

i sent him a holy of lesser reptilian bane i had in the bank. i think i have a couple of bodyfeeders lying around somewhere and some low level MFP.

one other thing i'd suggest is take the sovereign host enhancement line. unyielding sovereignty is only useful once per quest but it is really handy.

[gwlech]

i sent him a holy of lesser reptilian bane i had in the bank. i think i have a couple of bodyfeeders lying around somewhere and some low level MFP.

one other thing i'd suggest is take the sovereign host enhancement line. unyielding sovereignty is only useful once per quest but it is really handy.

Yeah bodyfeeder rapiers are really nice to have, especially after you get Improved Critical. I didn't mention them to him though, because assuming that he is a new player, he probably won't have the means to aquire them, and I also wanted to keep the information as simple as I possibly could.

I am glad he has someone on his server to help him out