Repeater Kensai?

[Dylvish]

Just out of pure curiosity and fun factor I was looking for a build similar to this on the forums but didnt find one. Got the idea from a level 8 I saw the other day. Please let me know your opinions on it and ways I could tweak it. Im not worried about raiding on him, and I figured I would go for repeater-heavy, over bow, since ranger would be better for a bow class.
I liked the idea of the pass through type barrage of arrows coming out of the xbow. Yes I'm aware its no TWF-kensai III-Kopesh wielding-common template here dps monster, but It LOOKS like it would be at least viable and fun.

Let me know your ideas / tweaks, and if any of you have played similar to any decent levels, some feedback would be appreciated as well. =)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Funnelfire repeater hvy kensai
Level 20 True Neutral Human Male
(18 Fighter \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 354
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 16
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             13                    16
Dexterity            16                    24
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         13                    14
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             12                    12

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               7                    25
Bluff                 1                     4
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             1                     1
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                5                     6
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  3                     7
Intimidate            5                     6
Jump                  5                    18
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently         3                     7
Open Lock             7                    12
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                     7
Spot                  4                     5
Swim                  5                     8
Tumble                7                    12
Use Magic Device      5                    24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Rogue)


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Repeating Heavy Crossbow
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Precise Shot


Level 5 (Fighter)


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Rapid Shot
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons


Level 7 (Fighter)


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Ranged Weapons


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons


Level 11 (Fighter)


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Precise Shot


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Ranged Weapons


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Mobility


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shot on the Run


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: DEX
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Kensei Repeating Heavy Crossbow Mastery I
Enhancement: Kensei Repeating Heavy Crossbow Mastery II
Enhancement: Kensei Repeating Heavy Crossbow Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Fighter Repeating Heavy Crossbow Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Repeating Heavy Crossbow Specialization II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

Thanks in advance

[Angelus_dead]

Let me know your ideas / tweaks

Do you really think Rogue2 provides enough benefits to compensate for missing out the 10% attack speed from Fighter20?

Note that Evasion is a little less valuable to a ranged combat character, as you have more freedom to stay away from where the explosions are.

[EKKM]

Do you really think Rogue2 provides enough benefits to compensate for missing out the 10% attack speed from Fighter20?

Note that Evasion is a little less valuable to a ranged combat character, as you have more freedom to stay away from where the explosions are.

A repeater build is likely a support build so the addition to UMD from rogue will be quite significant.


OP - You should be able to fit in the TWF line. Would make melee DPS viable when repeater is not usable/viable.

[Grimgore]

Also, if you are going to be a primarily ranged build and focusing on that aspect, I think your strength is a bit high. The points spent in STR should be swapped with CON or CHA (to keep yourself up and/or add to UMD to keep others up)

[Glockduck]

mmmmm as a fighter, you want to make sure you are upfront with your build, before joining any pug groups.

If I am putting one together I always remember to ask a ranger if they are ranged or melee dps, before accepting them.

I believe if you made this build, you would regret it, as well as the time and harassment before you hit lv 10.

(can you say wasted dps slot?)

[Arkat]

mmmmm as a fighter, you want to make sure you are upfront with your build, before joining any pug groups.

If I am putting one together I always remember to ask a ranger if they are ranged or melee dps, before accepting them.

I believe if you made this build, you would regret it, as well as the time and harassment before you hit lv 10.

(can you say wasted dps slot?)

Sorry there Glockduck, properly equipped and played correctly, a WF Repeater Kensai build can "Tank" certain Bosses without losing agro while using a repeater. I ought to know as my toon, Gilgamesh, has "tanked" Sally from VoD twice! (Yes, we completed without incident and in a normal period of time.)

Just because a Fighter uses repeating crossbows does not mean he/she cannot have meaningful DPS.

OP, go ahead and do what you want to do. Having fun and playing your toon well are key.

[hydra_ex]

OP, go ahead and do what you want to do. Having fun and playing your toon the way I want you to play it are key.

Fixed it for you

[Glockduck]

Sorry there Glockduck, properly equipped and played correctly, a WF Repeater Kensai build can "Tank" certain Bosses without losing agro while using a repeater. I ought to know as my toon, Gilgamesh, has "tanked" Sally from VoD twice! (Yes, we completed without incident and in a normal period of time.)

Just because a Fighter uses repeating crossbows does not mean he/she cannot have meaningful DPS.

OP, go ahead and do what you want to do. Having fun and playing your toon well are key.

A couple keys here my friend.

Properly equiped. That one is huge.

The second would be as I am sure you will agree. There is a difference between a tanking build and a dps build. Your kensi fighter that is geared for repeaters, may actually tank just fine. Holding agro with use of talents and a dps build are night and day.

The point I was trying to get across is, there are not many instance runs in this game, where a 'Tank" is needed. When I think of "Tank" I think of it, in the sense of World of Warcraft. Where, you need one in every run/raid in the game. Your success is measured by the skill/gear and talent of the tank you welcomed into your group.

I am a firm believer in "Play what you want" but with that, comes some downfalls. If as a fighter class, you are a repeating crossbow user as your main source of dps, you just need to make sure you let your build known. If taking a repeating crossbow user in a spot, where I expect a fighter duel wielding or carrying a big stick, you are not going to be meet with a lot of applause. (we dont need to get into a debate, we know a fighter TWF or THF will out dps a repeating crossbow user.)

This game is not complicated as far as tanking is concerned. Heck, my twf KoC pally can effectively 'Tank" with spending 1 AP and carrying a shield, if needed. Doesnt make it the best choice, but will work in a pinch.

Dont get my comment confused with, your repeating crossbow user can tank, vs the point I was trying to make, as far as 'Gimped dps' for a fighter, and what is expected.

Sure the build sounds like fun. At the same time. When people are leveling and putting up LFG for groups, they are not standing around going.

"We have one spot left, any good dps character will make this a smooth run, what should we take? Sorc? Barbarian? Tempest ranger? Nope! I want to hold out for a kensi repeating crossbow user!"

Play what you want. Just dont be frustrated when 'people' dont want to play with the build, you want to play with.

[Dylvish]

Also, if you are going to be a primarily ranged build and focusing on that aspect, I think your strength is a bit high. The points spent in STR should be swapped with CON or CHA (to keep yourself up and/or add to UMD to keep others up)

Very good point on the STR, Ill move it a couple points down and spread it over, probably to CHA for more UMD, but more health wouldnt hurt either.

As to the DPS viability on the class, there is always arguments on ranged, I'm well aware of them. I also give more credit to some of the AA archers out there than some others do because of their other, harder to quantify in numbers advantages. My nephew has a 16 AA ranger. While he does not do the single target dps that a tempest can do, I do notice that 90% of his arrows are like small lightning bolts, hitting multiple targets. He can not stand and take any hits however, so kites around a lot. My idea here is that I can stand and take hits if / when needed, as I try to stand near the melee whenever possible (having played melee myself, I hate having to follow mobs around trying to hit them). I am also hitting multiple targets most of the time, unless maybe its just on a boss mob.

It is a different style, I understand that. It also seems viable and a lot of fun, which is what I am after. I have an Evoker/healer FVS, a Tempest Ranger, and a Wizard, all who are in 'cookie cutter' builds. At low levels I never see people ask for specific builds, as truthfully it does not affect the run overly much until you start getting around 12'ish or so. I have seen all kinds of unusual builds / class mixes that people are experimenting with. This guy may never see a raid (not planning for or against it, just not very worried about it), he is designed purely for fun while still being viable. Didn't realize I would start a small skirmish over it

As to fitting in TWF, looking at the build, I think I would have to lose a few ranged feats that I would rather avoid.

Any other advice you can throw in?

(thx for the sound advice so far).

I'll be playing this as an alt so the leveling wont be so fast, but Ill try to post updates and feedback as I go up.

[Greeka]

Not sure if this applies but at one point rapid shot only worked on bows. Has that been changed and now does it properly affect crossbows and all ranged weapons including thrown?

[Dylvish]

Not sure if this applies but at one point rapid shot only worked on bows. Has that been changed and now does it properly affect crossbows and all ranged weapons including thrown?

I believe your thinking of Many shot, which only works on bows. To my knowledge Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload work on Xbows. I could, however be wrong. Anyone else out there know for sure?

[Arkat]

I believe your thinking of Many shot, which only works on bows. To my knowledge Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload work on Xbows. I could, however be wrong. Anyone else out there know for sure?

You are correct. Rapid Shot and Rapid Reload BOTH work on Repeaters.

See cforce's thread (specifically the table in the first post) here where he discusses the number of attacks a minute various fighting styles get:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=172819

This thread is invaluable! Bookmark it!

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

From a purely numbers standpoint, 20 ranger would give you significantly more DPS. But I'm sure you'll have fun with whatever you decide to play. Good luck, and have fun out there.

[Arkat]

A couple keys here my friend.

Properly equiped. That one is huge.

The second would be as I am sure you will agree. There is a difference between a tanking build and a dps build. Your kensi fighter that is geared for repeaters, may actually tank just fine. Holding agro with use of talents and a dps build are night and day.

The point I was trying to get across is, there are not many instance runs in this game, where a 'Tank" is needed. When I think of "Tank" I think of it, in the sense of World of Warcraft. Where, you need one in every run/raid in the game. Your success is measured by the skill/gear and talent of the tank you welcomed into your group.

I am a firm believer in "Play what you want" but with that, comes some downfalls. If as a fighter class, you are a repeating crossbow user as your main source of dps, you just need to make sure you let your build known. If taking a repeating crossbow user in a spot, where I expect a fighter duel wielding or carrying a big stick, you are not going to be meet with a lot of applause. (we dont need to get into a debate, we know a fighter TWF or THF will out dps a repeating crossbow user.)

This game is not complicated as far as tanking is concerned. Heck, my twf KoC pally can effectively 'Tank" with spending 1 AP and carrying a shield, if needed. Doesnt make it the best choice, but will work in a pinch.

Dont get my comment confused with, your repeating crossbow user can tank, vs the point I was trying to make, as far as 'Gimped dps' for a fighter, and what is expected.

Sure the build sounds like fun. At the same time. When people are leveling and putting up LFG for groups, they are not standing around going.

"We have one spot left, any good dps character will make this a smooth run, what should we take? Sorc? Barbarian? Tempest ranger? Nope! I want to hold out for a kensi repeating crossbow user!"

Play what you want. Just dont be frustrated when 'people' dont want to play with the build, you want to play with.

I agree pretty much with most of your points Glockduck. I just think people (especially newbs) need to open their mind on various toons and builds.

Sure, they may not be what's "expected" but they might also be pleasantly surprised.

As the last couple of lines in Robert Frost's poem go...

I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

from "The Road Not Taken" by Robert Frost

[Dylvish]

From a purely numbers standpoint, 20 ranger would give you significantly more DPS. But I'm sure you'll have fun with whatever you decide to play. Good luck, and have fun out there.

Alas, I would sacrifice small animals for the ability to take the racial AA abilities for bolts instead of arrows. =P