Just need to vent Part II

[KingOfCheese]

Everyone needs to solo a bit more. That is where the best survival and self-sufficiency skills come from.

A goal every 17+ character should have is to be able to solo the Sub-T all the way to the VOD entrance (with a cleared entrance). While it is easier to do on some classes than others--it can be done on all classes. It's a great goal because it emphasizes a number of key tactical skills--self-healing or avoidance of damage, using the right weapons on the right mobs, knowing when to fight and when to avoid a fight, managing mana, using the right spells on the right mobs. An inability to make this run is great training for where to improve builds and tactics--if one can't do it, figure out why, make some changes and go at it again.

[Delt]

Okay, wahh wahh waaaah... wa waah, wa waah...



W.A.H.? waa waaaahhh wah wa waaaah wah wa waaaaahhh wa wah waah.

Wah wa a waaaah waaah waa wa waaaaa 17-20.

Wa wa waaaaa wah waaah wa wah waaaah wah wa wah wa wahhhh waaaaaa and waaah waaaah, but waaaaah...

Waaaahhh.

Waah 17 - 20 Wahh waaah waaah waa wahhhh, but wa waaaah waaaaah... waaah wah waaaah.

Wah wah wah... wah wah waaaa aaaaah wahh waaaah wah wah... Waah, Waaah Waaah, Waaah wahhh etc...

Wah wah waaaah wah 12 - 20 wa wahhh.

WAHHH!!!

Wah wah wahhh.

Waaah, Wah waaah wah wahhh (wahh wa wah) wah wah waaah.

Waaah wah... Wah wah waaa wahhh Alter and I waaah wah waaaah waah wahhh waaaa. Wah, wah wah, wah waaaa wahhh wahh, waaa wah wahh.

Waah wah waaaaa?

Waaah waaah wah wah waaaaah waa wahh WAAAA wa waah, wah wa?

Waaah?

Wah wah.

Wah, waah waaah wa waaaaah waaaah.. wah wahhhh. Wa waaa wahhhh waaaa... wa wahhh wa? Waaaa waaaah waaaa wahhh, waaa wah waaah waaah. Wah?

Wa, waaah waaaa wah. Waaah waaah waaa waaaaah wah... wa, waaa waaaah wah waaaa... wa, waah waaaa waaah wah, wa waaah wah wah waaaah waaah wah. W.A.H.. .waaa wah wahhh wahhh waaaa.

Wah, waah wah waaa waaah wah wahhhh... wah waaaa waaah wahhhh.

Waaah waaa wahhh.



Wah, wah waaa wah waaaah Alter waaah waaa wahhh waaa wah, waaa waaah wah waaaah, waaa wahhh wah wahhhh... wah waaah waaa.

Wa wah "waaah wa waaa" waah wahhh waaah waaaa wa?

Wa wah, Wa waaa wah wahhhhh waaaahhh wah wahhh.

Wah waaaa? WAH wa wah, wah wahhh... wah waaa wah wahhh wah waaaa wahhh waaaaaaahhh waaa wa wahhhh... wah / wa?

Wa wahh wah wah, Wa waaah wah Erebus wa waaah wah TOD wa wah Waaaaah. WAAAAAH!!! Wah waaa wah.

Waaah...

Despite sounding to me like Charlie Brown's teacher, I gathered this is a story about some guy that didn't have or couldn't pop pots...and some other guy that maybe-possibly-sorta was gonna water an unfinished puzzle...but didn't.

Next time, please add some ninjas with lazers and two-headed kittens with rifles.

[Ministry]

... We finish off the last oh...40% of Harry with me, a rogue, and the barb. It was pretty epic. I used about 9 major mana pots, but it was worth it. After it was all over the barb thanks me and sends me a stack of 20 (!) major mana pots in the mail. I wish more players were like that rogue and that barb. Raids would go so smoothly if they were

You and me both. Sounds like 3 good builds / solid and classy players.

And ya, when did thanking the cleric (with pots if they used) go out of style.

I used 9 or 10 my saved run as well, and only one person offered to send me pots afterwards... the raid leader. I said ty, but no ty, but 1 offer?

What about all the poor builds that got a free ride?

Oh ya... how could they think of having any mana pots when they didn't even have the basic pots they needed for themselves.

Oh hang on... Tank builds with no inventory space. Bet ya they have 1/2 their inventory filled with gem and arrow piles.



*hint hint... gem bags and quivers*

[Ministry]

Despite sounding to me like Charlie Brown's teacher, I gathered this is a story about some guy that didn't have or couldn't pop pots...and some other guy that maybe-possibly-sorta was gonna water an unfinished puzzle...but didn't.

Next time, please add some ninjas with lazers and two-headed kittens with rifles.

OMG.. it's KING TROLL!

And as usual, you provide so much intelligence and useful commentary.

*Back... Back... * Get back in the basement little freak troll boy.

Yup, bet you recognize the information, because it was most likely you on the run on one of your ohhh... so uber alts.

Do you actually play the game or just troll?

and you spelled DOLT wrong.

Figures.

[dopey69]

funny Mini good reply to Delt rotfl . you still got it! WB . the last toon i rolled is 16 now and has yet to group with ne one.She is just coming out of giant hold and heading to the vale all solo all the time lol, I also havn't pugged ne of my clerics since the onslaught of stoopidness that has hit our server . i think it will get better but not ne time"soon"

[Ministry]

funny Mini good reply to Delt rotfl . you still got it! WB . the last toon i rolled is 16 now and has yet to group with ne one.She is just coming out of giant hold and heading to the vale all solo all the time lol, I also havn't pugged ne of my clerics since the onslaught of stoopidness that has hit our server . i think it will get better but not ne time"soon"

TY.

Not that ya need help, but if you get bored and want company flagging, let me know.

[Wizzly_Bear]

You mean you play the game sober?

****... that's not a bad idea.

Not a great one... but hey, who knows.

Hmmm...

Hey Wizzly... wanna try that?

What is this sober you speak of? New loot drop? I bet it gets nerfed...

[Tzarov]

It's really quite easy for new players with any previous MMO experience to get to shroud levels without using pots/wand/etc.

No other MMO relies on self-sufficiently as much as DDO, so this a new element for many players coming from other games.

Raiding in DDO is a joke, you can can get through any raid even if you're slacking, probably even naked, seen it done.

Some vets are to busy QQ'ing instead of actually helping new players.

As a result, you have a lot of new players zerging to 16+ without any idea of what they need pot wise.

I find sending new players a simple tell and explaining things works far better then being jerk about it, because some of the behaviour I've seen from vets in these situations (In a recent ToD where a newish player didn't have remove curse pots on Judge) has been down right appalling and embarrassing.

[Wizzly_Bear]

btw...just logged in and nothing tasty going on so I'm gonna hit some rock band and check back every few minutes or so.

Oh, and 7k from 17, woot!

[Kalari]

So now vets are to blame for people not knowing that poison pots cure poison, remove curse actually removes curse and so on?

seriously I was sick and tired of the vets versus newbies long ago but that is such a crock and only adds to it.

It didnt take vets to teach me how to be self sufficient going into a potion shop and seeing what they have to offer can teach anyone with a brain to buy this if you have said ailment.

The game has always had random potion drops in crates even more so now in places like korthos.

Collectibles is one thing I will credit players here before me teaching me about to turn them in when I didnt have gold to fund my own potions but even then its not that hard if you want your character to survive to pick up on the type of potions or even preventative items.

Im all for teaching when I can but many people complaining seem to want more of a hand holding approach. and unless im doing you or gave birth to ya im not holding your hand. Its not hard to learn whats needed in game and if you got to 16 without doing so only you are to blame for it.

[Ministry]

It's really quite easy for new players with any previous MMO experience to get to shroud levels without using pots/wand/etc.

No other MMO relies on self-sufficiently as much as DDO, so this a new element for many players coming from other games.

Raiding in DDO is a joke, you can can get through any raid even if you're slacking, probably even naked, seen it done.

Some vets are to busy QQ'ing instead of actually helping new players.

As a result, you have a lot of new players zerging to 16+ without any idea of what they need pot wise.

I find sending new players a simple tell and explaining things works far better then being jerk about it, because some of the behaviour I've seen from vets in these situations (In a recent ToD where a newish player didn't have remove curse pots on Judge) has been down right appalling and embarrassing.

Many good points.

Yes, getting to shroud levels without trying hard, doing naked raids is all correct.

But, how do you get to that level without learning anything about self preservation by that time.

Sure, you can sit back and coast through quests while vets and / or better equipped players take the lead, but seriously... they don't learn about healing, remove curse or disease potions by then?

Even by tagging along you would have to learn that much. So on that point, I completely disagree. Does my disagreeing mean that you are wrong? Nope. I just can't fathom in the deepest, darkest recesses of my mind what it would take to get to 16+ and not know that much.

My only fear at this point is the people we are drawing attention to may not be at a certain level of intelligence, at an average level of player that I may have run with. This is the only possibility I can think of. The reason why it scares me is what if somewhere along the way the vets end up grabbing a pugger that does know how to hit LFM's but does lack the cognitive capability to understand all, or many aspects of the game.

Getting to TOD with a marginal intellect and not knowing you should always have remove curse pots at that level is strange, but maybe possible.

Now, I've run out of pots and forgot to stock up before a raid and get handcuffed... so that can happen... but the minute I notice, I yell out... OMG.. I f'ed up... etc... I forgot to stock up and take my death like a man and hope that someone can lend me some pots.

You are also correct... there are a number of times I've seen people tear people apart for some simpler things and it is not right, but again... my perhaps not so well illustrated OP was that we poked a little fun at the guy and he and his "buddy" became beligerent, which in turn set me off.

[Ministry]

So now vets are to blame for people not knowing that poison pots cure poison, remove curse actually removes curse and so on?

seriously I was sick and tired of the vets versus newbies long ago but that is such a crock and only adds to it.

It didnt take vets to teach me how to be self sufficient going into a potion shop and seeing what they have to offer can teach anyone with a brain to buy this if you have said ailment.

The game has always had random potion drops in crates even more so now in places like korthos.

Collectibles is one thing I will credit players here before me teaching me about to turn them in when I didnt have gold to fund my own potions but even then its not that hard if you want your character to survive to pick up on the type of potions or even preventative items.

Im all for teaching when I can but many people complaining seem to want more of a hand holding approach. and unless im doing you or gave birth to ya im not holding your hand. Its not hard to learn whats needed in game and if you got to 16 without doing so only you are to blame for it.

****... couldn't have said what I was thinking any better.

TY.

+1

So agreed... I can guarantee you I have spent 100 times helping others more than anyone has helped me, and I know a LOT of vets just like me in that respect, and vets like Pyxie, Wizzly and so many more that still hold my hand through raids.

[Feylina]

this is why we have people refusing to take care of themselfs. There always someone enabaling them, to scared to make waves and it easier to hold there hand threw that one quest then to set a example and hope they get it and are prepared next time.

maybe you should read better. no i don't do it because i'm "scared" to make waves or "hand holding" i do it because it takes less f n time to just cast the **** buff and move on to getting my sp back.

It's not like you guys are talking about during a quest when they get poisoned and could pot or cursed and could pot. You're talking about when you are standing around with unlimited spell points already have the person targeted for another buff and it's so hard to click neutralize poison that you have to turn it into an issue and waste more time than just tossing the buffs.

I've been there for a lot of these types of arguements with new players and honestly it makes you look like a "expletive deleted". Rarely, from my experienced, is the person buffed and then informed that maybe he should pick up the pots in the future. Usually it's just a vet jumping down their throat cause that person is a "fricken n00b".

[Kalari]

Well Feylina Ive seen the flip side of this people who join shroud lfm's that stated quick pace which normally means people who can get their own buffs and do so the clerics can go right into keeping them up only to have the one guy go "I need this and that." it works both ways sure on a normal shroud run many clerics can and will buff the party and use the pools. But seriously many classes can and should cover their own buffs and many items in quests starting as low as water works offer things like poison and disease immunity.

Really by the time most groups are seriously running shrouds these days (lot of 17+ lfms up lately) they should know how to prevent poison and disease without a cleric buff. Many bards and rangers offer to use their points which they wouldnt be using for anything else anyway to help with resists, freedom and the like as well. It does not always have to be the cleric to get the buffs at all and many runs I am healing on my mana goes to keeping the party up in 4 and 5 and helping kill things in parts 1 and 2 and to rezzing those in part 3 that get ganked during our drinking game kill players with the runes runs (always a good time ))

[Wizzly_Bear]

...Wizzly and so many more that still hold my hand through raids.

I'm just glad you finally started washing 'em.

[Guildmaster_Kadish]

To be honest, the only place you really ever need neutralize poison is in Shroud, and spellpoints really aren't ever an issue there.

I can't really imagine much of an excuse for not carrying healing resources though.

[Ministry]

To be honest, the only place you really ever need neutralize poison is in Shroud, and spellpoints really aren't ever an issue there.

I can't really imagine much of an excuse for not carrying healing resources though.

Come on now... there are a lot more cases / situations where you get poisioned throughout the game.

Trogs alone are quite plentiful.

Allsi'msayin is... take some responsibility for yourself. If you know you are going into the shroud, take a few poison pots, cures, etc...

Now if you get to that point and you get poisoned and you didn't have any pots on your or forgot to re-stock, just state that. Sorry, I ran out of neutralize poision pots, may I borrow one or get a quick shot of the good stuff from a caster.

[Oreg]

My FVS carries Poison pots and hands them out one by one if people ask me for a poison. I don't say anything I just hand them a pot. I'd like to think 1 or 2 of them may actually say to themselves " hey I could have bought some of these myself. I will do that next time". The ones who don't are retards anyway and won't buy them even after you have told them to so why waste your breath....

[Ministry]

My FVS carries Poison pots and hands them out one by one if people ask me for a poison. I don't say anything I just hand them a pot. I'd like to think 1 or 2 of them may actually say to themselves " hey I could have bought some of these myself. I will do that next time". The ones who don't are retards anyway and won't buy them even after you have told them to so why waste your breath....

That's cool of you and probably the best way to go.

But, honestly... I just so tired of those people... they take advantage of others and save their gold because they know Fey will buff them or you will hand them pots.

In the end, it really doesn't matter that much and this whole thread is probably doing nothing to change what those people do because either they don't come out to read this ***** or will keep doing what they do because they are ignorant.

In the end... all that came of this is some people gave me some positive rep for entertaining them... or to shut me up.

[Gunga]

My FVS carries Poison pots and hands them out one by one if people ask me for a poison. I don't say anything I just hand them a pot. I'd like to think 1 or 2 of them may actually say to themselves " hey I could have bought some of these myself. I will do that next time". The ones who don't are retards anyway and won't buy them even after you have told them to so why waste your breath....

Awesome. You should hand out CSW pots in between fights too.