Just need to vent Part II

[Ministry]

Well, a number of great points, even one that went contrary to my post, but that's cool... haha

1. This run I was on had a few people from DARPA, so I knew Alter would try to put enough people on the team that we could get through it, even if the rest of the team was sub par and didn't carry pots and barely knew what they were doing. This is why I joined the run and yes, end up having to look in the WHO tab normally to see if I recognize the guild name of the person leading before I join anything nowadays. Mostly I just rely on my friends list and other secret channels.

2. Passing out the buffs to avoid arguments / 10 minute discussions is good and bad, so I see that side of the argument to avoid *****, but at the same time, if we keep doing this and no one stands up, these lazy f's just keep getting off easy. So, a few of us get branded as the "bad" guys because we won't put up with their lethargy and cheap ass behaviour. Ya know what... Brand me the bad guy, but maybe the next run that tard I tore into will look before pouring water before the puzzle is solved or will have some pots on them. No guarantees, but who knows.

3. Not carrying the basic potions at any level is silly, but at the upper levels, it's just rude. When you are a newer player to the game or server, I COMPLETELY understand, it's not easy to amasse the plat required to have ALL the pots, ALL the time, so this message is NOT at all directed at these players. This message is directed at the players who have higher alts or are on a character at the level of a Shroud run. How in the freak do Rogues and other Melees not have TONNES of plat in the upper levels? It's virtually impossible. Sell a large, buy your pots, be respectful... Seriously.

4. But, the worst is when people argue about this. Yes, I get so tired of the sub par players in the upper levels who don't admit they don't know what they are doing in a quest or come ill prepared. If you don't know what you are doing or what gear you need, send a tell to the team leader before you get accepted, or join and tell everyone IMMEDIATELY that you are new to the quest and need to quickly know what you need and you will get it. Being at part 5 of the shroud and not knowing what weapons to use on Harry or what pots to have is just flat out IGNORANT in so many ways.

5. Jiipster... Yup, Americans and us Canadians prolly do some ***** that does look innane to ya all, especially after running with a number of the EU players in my time. It's funny, but I have yet to be disappointed by a EU player or guild and as a matter of fact, have been extremely impressed overall. I don't know what it is about y'all, but I've been on only 3 TOD runs (was gone for 7 months, so been catching up), but the Erebus run was so simple... Leader states... "You do this and you guys do that and so on..." Part 1 instructions and buffs done in a minute and completed. Part 2 instructions and buffs done in a minute and done in a minute and completed. Part 3 the same. Clockwork, simple. Everyone knew their role, no deaths, easy. Maybe you guys have some certain levels of expectation, training schools, or something else... and if you do... sign me up.

In conclusion... We are all different, all have different levels of skills and understanding, but honestly I believe it comes down to a certain level of regard and respect for your fellow players to be honest with your knowledge of the game and each quest. If you don't know, ask.... If you don't have, borrow or at least let people know. And in the end... when you chose not to have the requisite gear and knowledge and don't tell people till it's too late... expect that I and many others will either tear into you or make fun of you and that's that. If you think I was hard on ya, you should see me on a bad day. Heaven help those tards if Ren or Wizzly was on that run. You would have ended up dropping group because the tears would have been welling up so large in your eyes that you couldn't play again.

[smatt]

How about this..... If the frigan "I'm so awesome Vets" would spend 1/2 the time they do *****ing about all the noobs in their private channels and on the forums, actually trying to teach the noobs, instead of spamming them with blatant disinformation, and berating them,, perhaps they would get better faster... Ya, I know we'll get the comments from the great ones who forget how bad they sucked way back when, and the claims that they were completely self taught. And of course there are always the new/green players that won't listen to anybody. But I'm finding a lot that ARE willing to listen to advice and are really trying hard. The problem is there's s o few Vets that are really willing to step up and help out many of these poeple who in the end are SAVING DDO.

It's tough with the huge crop of new/unexperianced players coming i. But remember we as Vets had huge amounts of time between new content releases, it was harder to level back then as well, so we had much longer to learn things. Think back to when each of you had only been playing this game for 4 or so months, when it was smaller game in scope.......

[Captain_Wizbang]

Heaven help those tards if Ren or Wizzly was on that run. You would have ended up dropping group because the tears would have been welling up so large in your eyes that you couldn't play again.

Would NOT want to be on the receiving of that tongue lashing!
Agreed on lfms from people we know (alter)
I could understand if you're grinding lowbies, and after 6 straight delaras or shadow crypt runs you run out of certain pots, thats ok. but...
Pm me the potless character, and we'll take up a collection for him/her (I have some twigs & coal left over)

[gorloch]

I remember when DWAT used to require every member to remain stocked up on certain items/pots or face the backlash from the rest of the guild for not having it. To this day I do believe all of the original players and (I hope) all new members generally have items such as UA, poison pots, curse removel, disease immunity, and even haste for when the pug caster still hasn't caught up yet.


PIXA

[Purgatory]

How about this..... If the frigan "I'm so awesome Vets" would spend 1/2 the time they do *****ing about all the noobs in their private channels and on the forums, actually trying to teach the noobs, instead of spamming them with blatant disinformation, and berating them,, perhaps they would get better faster... Ya, I know we'll get the comments from the great ones who forget how bad they sucked way back when, and the claims that they were completely self taught. And of course there are always the new/green players that won't listen to anybody. But I'm finding a lot that ARE willing to listen to advice and are really trying hard. The problem is there's s o few Vets that are really willing to step up and help out many of these poeple who in the end are SAVING DDO.

It's tough with the huge crop of new/unexperianced players coming i. But remember we as Vets had huge amounts of time between new content releases, it was harder to level back then as well, so we had much longer to learn things. Think back to when each of you had only been playing this game for 4 or so months, when it was smaller game in scope.......

Coming prapard to do a quest has nothing to do with knowing the quest well. But for the love of god bring some self healing and remove xxxxx pots. this has nothing to do with vets vs noobs. I mean how can u be so lazy in a game? not like you are actualy running to the vendor yourself to stock up, push a few buttons get what u need. Even the hirelings manage to chug a few pots now and then.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Min...this has always been around and it occurs for several reasons.

1) People not knowing the basics required for certain quests/builds/etc.
2) People who don't know not having the balls to say they don't know or ask (remember last run we did where I explicitly asked the whole group several times if anyone needed any info on the Shroud?)
3) People who do know better but would rather just ride others' coattails.
4) People that enable the above 3.
5) People who accidentally forget that they did not have the proper gear (looking at you Mr. poisoned in part 5 )

...and though this has always been around, it is a bit more prevalent since F2P.

Also, many of us veteran players would rather solo/not play than deal with numbers 1-4 as we're just plain tired of them.

PS... you gonna be on tonight?

[Ministry]

How about this..... If the frigan "I'm so awesome Vets" would spend 1/2 the time they do *****ing about all the noobs in their private channels and on the forums, actually trying to teach the noobs, instead of spamming them with blatant disinformation, and berating them,, perhaps they would get better faster... Ya, I know we'll get the comments from the great ones who forget how bad they sucked way back when, and the claims that they were completely self taught. And of course there are always the new/green players that won't listen to anybody. But I'm finding a lot that ARE willing to listen to advice and are really trying hard. The problem is there's s o few Vets that are really willing to step up and help out many of these poeple who in the end are SAVING DDO.

It's tough with the huge crop of new/unexperianced players coming i. But remember we as Vets had huge amounts of time between new content releases, it was harder to level back then as well, so we had much longer to learn things. Think back to when each of you had only been playing this game for 4 or so months, when it was smaller game in scope.......

Honestly, I know a LOT of vets that did teach themselves the hard way and DO offer tonnes of advice to newer players. Some of us participate in adopt a noob programs and are happy to spend time with people and offer advice.

I'm guessing your comment is directed at those who don't, but know this... there are a lot that do help... A LOT.

And, we do post out here about our experiences like me falling to my death 4 times in STK on day 2 of the game.

Here's the difference in the players who get good at the game and those who never do and whine about not getting onto teams or into decent guilds... WE ASK QUESTIONS and READ. After my 7 month sabatical (Missed the Inspired Quarter and TOD release) I went online and read, got in game and asked questions, phoned Wizzly, etc...

I jumped into a TOD after getting a toon flagged and immediately told people it was my first and then 2nd run and just tell me what to do and it will get done and what I need and I will provide it.

If you are polite and upfront, even with the bad ass mofo vets out there, you will have a **** good chance of either getting a great answer or at minimum... just relax and don't do anything stupid and you will learn and get xp and a completion. I did that and still do.

There are waaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy better and more knowledgable players than me and I ask their advice and I get it. Honestly, it's easier for newer players to ask advice and get it.

Think about it. I've been playing this game on and off for 3 years. I'm EXPECTED to know a lot. Well, I know some stuff, but I don't know it all and it's tough to ask your peers for advice and not come off like you are some tard who doesn't know all you should after 3 years.

It would be so much easier to change my name and pretend I'm new and ask more questions and for advice.

Perhaps a newer player runs into someone on a bad day who doesn't want to help or gets bad advice or no advice and gets frustrated. I can understand this, but I don't buy it. I've had / witnessed more bad advice than good in game and in RL, but I don't let that stop me. I don't sit and complain about not getting help. I find another way or another person and get what I need.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Heaven help those tards if Ren or Wizzly was on that run. You would have ended up dropping group because the tears would have been welling up so large in your eyes that you couldn't play again.

/bows

Re: Smatt...what about us veteran players who specifically ask every group if they are new to x quest so that we can inform them? What about those of us who carry extra weapons into raids so those who don't have them can borrow them (and then of course they don't because their +2 frost handaxe is DAH UBERZ!)? Take your anti-elitist preaching back to Korthos where it belongs.

[Ministry]

Min...this has always been around and it occurs for several reasons.

1) People not knowing the basics required for certain quests/builds/etc.
2) People who don't know not having the balls to say they don't know or ask (remember last run we did where I explicitly asked the whole group several times if anyone needed any info on the Shroud?)
3) People who do know better but would rather just ride others' coattails.
4) People that enable the above 3.
5) People who accidentally forget that they did not have the proper gear (looking at you Mr. poisoned in part 5 )

...and though this has always been around, it is a bit more prevalent since F2P.

Also, many of us veteran players would rather solo/not play than deal with numbers 1-4 as we're just plain tired of them.

PS... you gonna be on tonight?

Last guy on the planet I need to read my posts and comments... haha

Ya Ya... played my Barbarian for the first time since being back, in a shroud and forgot to get poision pro item on or chug a neutralize poision pot before raging in part 5. Hey, at least you didn't mention getting feared in part one because I forgot GH and / or my Reavers Ring.



And yup... this is why the vets solo or short man everything nowadays and have for a long time now.

The only problem with that is, the newer players don't get the benefit of our knowledge and every once in a while you find someone who actually appreciates it and learns and grows from it. I've seen this happen... once or twice.



Wasn't planning on being on tonight because I was on a fair bit this weekend and I have a lot going on with work. Were you planning on logging in to do something specific or just axin?

If you are going to be on, I will prolly login.

[Wizzly_Bear]

Hey, at least you didn't mention getting feared in part one because I forgot GH and / or my Reavers Ring.

lol, forgot about that one. Get a will save ftard

Wasn't planning on being on tonight because I was on a fair bit this weekend and I have a lot going on with work. Were you planning on logging in to do something specific or just axin?

If you are going to be on, I will prolly login.

I was thinking the same thing - if you were going to be on I'd show up. I think I was just about to hit level 37, I mean 17 so I was thinking I'd get that done tonight since I don't have anything going on tonight. Haven't been on in a few days so all my raid timers are clear. Was sort of planning on once I got 17 to show up every 3 days to timer up until I hit 20 and then TR again.

[Ministry]

Would NOT want to be on the receiving of that tongue lashing!
Agreed on lfms from people we know (alter)
I could understand if you're grinding lowbies, and after 6 straight delaras or shadow crypt runs you run out of certain pots, thats ok. but...
Pm me the potless character, and we'll take up a collection for him/her (I have some twigs & coal left over)

I offered the person plat in party chat after Alter laced into him and the ****** went after me.

I was just having fun, but after that I got ****ed.

Seriously... you f up, take the joking... it's so much easier. Defend your stOOpid decision and argue... just gets worse. Luckilly I have respect for Alter and it was his team and he told us to calm down I did... but if it wasn't for him... I wouldn't have stopped... Ever.

Alter sent the guy a pot in the mail after, so I'm sure he got the point.

Just riddle me this... how does a melee get to level 17+ and not have plat or the brains / common sense.

Again... I feel so sorry for the clerics that tard ran with all along and the reason why I deleted my 2nd cleric... I could only cleric so much and now reserve it only for friends or soloing.

[Ministry]

lol, forgot about that one. Get a will save ftard


I was thinking the same thing - if you were going to be on I'd show up. I think I was just about to hit level 37, I mean 17 so I was thinking I'd get that done tonight since I don't have anything going on tonight. Haven't been on in a few days so all my raid timers are clear. Was sort of planning on once I got 17 to show up every 3 days to timer up until I hit 20 and then TR again.

kk.... see ya on tonight.

We should do some raiding and just accept whoever onto the runs to see what mess we can get ourselves into... well, just once, because I can only take so much.

Barbarians and will saves? umm... hmmm...

[juniorpfactors]

are you telling me there are potion vendors?

jrp

[binnsr]

are you telling me there are potion vendors?

jrp

potion whats?

[Ministry]

OMG... We've found the missing link...

There are no bright lights, maps and specfic directions for players to find out where they can buy potions.

They must assume that they drop only in chests and that is why they run out so quickly.

Wow... DDO has failed their player base by not making this OBVIOUS.

Time to simplify the game just a little more... it's waaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy to complicated and all these secrets confound the newer players and the vets are to big of ******s to stand around with maps and advice on how to get potions, into quests, about the vendors and auction houses.

**** Vet players!!!

[binnsr]

...

I've found that it's easiest to just blame the cleric .. especially when you had on the helm of Freewill instead of Minos because you were bloodstone chasing before the ToD run.



I carry all the basics on all my characters .. the problem that I run into is that I don't run everyone all that often, so when I'm on a character I've not run in a while, I have to figure out if it's a wand, a stack of potions, a clicky or am I actually wearing an item. Then it's figuring out where on my mess of hotbars I stuck said clicky/pot/wand

[Ministry]

I've found that it's easiest to just blame the cleric .. especially when you had on the helm of Freewill instead of Minos because you were bloodstone chasing before the ToD run.

See... See... it's guys like you that make me want to delete my cleric.

I try so hard to keep everyone alive and take it so personally when they die.... and I'm holding back the tears when out of no where I once again get blamed for deaths...

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

**** YOU ELDAMIR!!!!

[KingOfCheese]

Unfortunate rule of life: happiness correlates with expectations--the lower the expectations, the easier it is to be happy

I have a 20% rule for human behavior. In a group of random people, 20% will have extreme behavior or views--be it extreme forgetfulness, extreme laziness, rudeness, no radar for how others are perceiving them, inability to process information, conscious or subconscious self/group-destructive behavior, etc., etc. When people are polled on any topic or viewed on any activity, this 20% rules seems to always present itself.

With this in mind, I expect a 12 man pug run to have 1-2 bad participants--regardless of how much training, instruction, experience, etc. they have--there's just going to be some people that have a personality/biology/other deficit that results in bad performance under any circumstance.

With this mindset--when things go smoothly and those people aren't present (or aren't disruptive, if present)--I'm surprised and happy.

When 1-2 are present--I expected it so it feels right and normal. I'll typically just buff them and move on. Maybe drop some general advice to the group in case some people messed up due to lack of knowledge rather than lack of basic human competence. But I'll assume lack of competence and not expect better behavior in the future.

When 3 or more present--I understand that this is the other side of the statistical world that lets me have occasional runs with only solid people.

In each case--all is right with the world. With low expectations, the worst that happens is I stay even because that bad behavior is expected. Anything other than that brings surprise and joy.

[Gunga]

smooth Runs

Tmi

[Ministry]

Unfortunate rule of life: happiness correlates with expectations--the lower the expectations, the easier it is to be happy

I have a 20% rule for human behavior. In a group of random people, 20% will have extreme behavior or views--be it extreme forgetfulness, extreme laziness, rudeness, no radar for how others are perceiving them, inability to process information, conscious or subconscious self/group-destructive behavior, etc., etc. When people are polled on any topic or viewed on any activity, this 20% rules seems to always present itself.

With this in mind, I expect a 12 man pug run to have 1-2 bad participants--regardless of how much training, instruction, experience, etc. they have--there's just going to be some people that have a personality/biology/other deficit that results in bad performance under any circumstance.

With this mindset--when things go smoothly and those people aren't present (or aren't disruptive, if present)--I'm surprised and happy.

When 1-2 are present--I expected it so it feels right and normal. I'll typically just buff them and move on. Maybe drop some general advice to the group in case some people messed up due to lack of knowledge rather than lack of basic human competence. But I'll assume lack of competence and not expect better behavior in the future.

When 3 or more present--I understand that this is the other side of the statistical world that lets me have occasional runs with only solid people.

In each case--all is right with the world. With low expectations, the worst that happens is I stay even because that bad behavior is expected. Anything other than that brings surprise and joy.

Perfectly stated and /signed.

And it still won't let me give you more rep.

Can you post under another name so I can spread some rep around?

argh.