Just need to vent Part II

[Ministry]

Okay, since we are venting... my turn, my turn...



W T FREAK has happened to the average level of competency in the game.

Was on a shroud earlier today with levels 17-20.

I won't go into some of the really inane moves I had to bear witness to and things I heard, but I'm going to keep this vent to one subject...

Potions.

Level 17 - 20 Melees that don't have a poision proof item is strange, but if you don't have it, no worries... potions are cheap.

I don't get it... how do these people get to these levels w/o carrying the basic potions... Cure, Neutralize Poision, Remove Blindness, Remove Curse, Remove Disease, etc...

I've seen this now from level 12 - 20 since being back.

A LOT!!!

It wasn't like this before.

Honestly, I feel so bad for the clerics these players (using term loosely) used and abused.

You have to hear this one... So a guy tries to argue with Alter and I about how he has a protection from disease item on instead of a neutralize poision. Okay, that's fine, but if you are going to do that, have neutralize poison pots.

Is it just me that finds this sad and disturbing?

Why would you waste valuable caster spell points and times when you can have a WHACK of pots, very cheap?

Why don't people want to play clerics?

People like this.

Fine, call me the bad guy for tearing into you in the middle of a raid.. but seriously. In the end all I could think was... what am I doing? If these people haven't learned this by now, what's the point of me reacting. Right?

Oh, and I'm about to make this better. After we dealt with all that someone tells me to stop being an ass... ya, the same guy that I stopped 1 foot from putting water into an unsolved puzzle... ya, he said he wasn't going to do it, but he was literally a step or two away from doing it before I screamed for him to stop. OMG.. .how many times have I seen people do this since being back.

Okay, so now we are beating on Harry and guess what... Someone else asks for poison protection.

I almost fell off my chair.



Well, the good news is that Alter sent the guy a neutralize poison pot in the mail, so the next Shroud he's in, the cleric will get a little break... that is if he remembers he has the potion.

Is there a "know your role" section on the forums and a basic tutorial stating what you need to have with you at all times?

If so, I need to copy and paste that in my bio so I can send it quickly to people.

Am I perfect? FAR from it, but seriously... there has to be a basic level of understanding and game playing at that level and a certain expectation from your party members... yes / no?

On the other hand, I got to run with the Erebus peeps on a TOD run on Saturday. SMOOTHE!!! Props to that bunch.

Later...

[Xyfiel]

well since we are venting:

been watching foosball all day and posting in the heroic surge thread. Finally hit a lfm for rainbow on my 14 ranger Deepwood.

No rogue, group of 13-15, doing ok to the crest. I have more kills then the rest of the party with a combo of repeater and melee just on earthies. Casters oom, heading to put in crest, buffs timed out, only got the essentials on(no fire). Even after specifically reminding about the fire trap room on the way, boom, fire eles and 4 trapped people. A added bonus of 2 scorps. I manyshot 2 eles down, and the other 2 close, but get petrified. Use a res cake, in my kiting run back into a trap, being hard, evasion doesn't help due to save dc. Hey, I couldnt out run the constant damage from 2 scorps with a haste and sprint boost, and it was dark. All this time the cleric who is alive, has no heal scrolls, no res scrolls, and had maybe one csw wand entering. He joins me in the trap to heal me, but I am dead?

So I bailed in town, I barely ever bail, just not my nature. If the Archer ranger has more kills then the party combined, the party is doomed.

Moral of the story, I could solo it easier with dungeon scaling, and probably will.

[Rasczak]

Definitely a common problem pitching up.

It seems the game has gone from party play to all for themself.
Healers getting accused of being rubbish because they don't heal someone who ran off by themselves is still my favourite.

All of my melees carries at any time, nuetralise poison, remove curse, remove disease, remove blindness, restoration, cure serious or repair serious & major pots (for casters who use up their own).

And anyone who says that it's not cost effective for new players, I'm a new player. I may be a vet from Europe but that means diddly on a US server. I started from scratch to and it's easy to have those items, even easier is if you have rogue, bard (with UMD) or ranger in you because then you get to use a wand which is even cheaper than pots.

Maybe I'm a bit sensitive recently from wiping on bread & butter quests because people expect certain classes to do everything for them.
A buffed party is a party that doesn't need as much healing. That poison spell from a cleric could have been a cure spell that saved you dying but no we going the incompetent approach generally now in PUGs :/

It seems if you aren't self sufficient enough to survive the party wipe then you doomed to repeat quests more than the once you intended to. And yes, poor play and underequipped characters cause party wipes, don't ever doubt it.
You pull 3 mobs that you can't kill and they will snuff you out

[Nouda_EU]

Definitely a common problem pitching up.

It seems the game has gone from party play to all for themself.
Healers getting accused of being rubbish because they don't heal someone who ran off by themselves is still my favourite.

All of my melees carries at any time, nuetralise poison, remove curse, remove disease, remove blindness, restoration, cure serious or repair serious & major pots (for casters who use up their own).

And anyone who says that it's not cost effective for new players, I'm a new player. I may be a vet from Europe but that means diddly on a US server. I started from scratch to and it's easy to have those items, even easier is if you have rogue, bard (with UMD) or ranger in you because then you get to use a wand which is even cheaper than pots.

Maybe I'm a bit sensitive recently from wiping on bread & butter quests because people expect certain classes to do everything for them.
A buffed party is a party that doesn't need as much healing. That poison spell from a cleric could have been a cure spell that saved you dying but no we going the incompetent approach generally now in PUGs :/

It seems if you aren't self sufficient enough to survive the party wipe then you doomed to repeat quests more than the once you intended to. And yes, poor play and underequipped characters cause party wipes, don't ever doubt it.
You pull 3 mobs that you can't kill and they will snuff you out

personally i just ask the bard/ranger/paladin to buff poisons when I'm healing on my FvS... I'm guilty of not carry pots mainly i buy them ones then forget to buy them again its much easier to remind people to get poison pots while forming and remind them about curse pots before VoD then they have no excuse! unfortunatly i never remeber to do this so i just ask people to buff people with out posion the buff on a pot is much smaller than the buff from a level 20 so you can sort of understand people relucktance to use up that valuable invent slot on them when there are sp recharge pool and all a ranger needs to buff with there about 500 sp is rams might

[DoctorWhofan]

WElcome Mini, to F2P. Get alot of new players, but alot of rubbish. Whole new ballgame.

PS: don't run on my TS runs...your brain will explode!

[Rasczak]

personally i just ask the bard/ranger/paladin to buff poisons when I'm healing on my FvS... I'm guilty of not carry pots mainly i buy them ones then forget to buy them again its much easier to remind people to get poison pots while forming and remind them about curse pots before VoD then they have no excuse! unfortunatly i never remeber to do this so i just ask people to buff people with out posion the buff on a pot is much smaller than the buff from a level 20 so you can sort of understand people relucktance to use up that valuable invent slot on them when there are sp recharge pool and all a ranger needs to buff with there about 500 sp is rams might

I'm not saying the healer build should never do it as in certain cases it's more viable to have an extended version than a pot. Shroud part 5 I don't see why there is a problem for the healer to buff it and then get their spell points back.
In VoD it's better for the healer to cast extended death ward instead of expecting players to self buff it.

Maybe it came across badly on my part but I do feel that players should have a decent stock of these items in case.
You get killed in shroud then at least be prepared to quickly self buff them, same for any other raid.
Having rangers buff resistance, FoM & poison is a great tactic to have especially if you have 2 rangers since they can buff bark as well without running out of sp.

My thought is just that players should be prepared to it. Considering now the FvS explosion, I know that my FvS uses most of those off wands due to limited spell selection so it wouldn't make much difference if I did it or the player did. I've always rebelled against the idea that casters foot the bill for a quest. Using up their own purchased resources when players could share the cost.

Sure a healer in some situations could buff those but then when they run out of sp it's their own heal scrolls and sp pots they use. And while a few of us do give back, there are a whack of new players who don't realise the cost and don't bother replacing it.

[Krag]

I'm not saying the healer build should never do it as in certain cases it's more viable to have an extended version than a pot. Shroud part 5 I don't see why there is a problem for the healer to buff it and then get their spell points back.

Part 5 should have enough halfway casters (rangers, paladins, bards) to take care of buffs. You do not want to make clerics spend extra time regenerating mana because pools will not give mana forever.

[BoBoDaClown]

It wasn't like this before.

To be honest, I'm not absolutely sure of this - it may have got worse, but it has always puzzled me why players don't stock up on pots. I know plenty of experienced players who still run without the essentials.

Laziness?

I don't know.

[IgorUnchained]

To be honest, I'm not absolutely sure of this - it may have got worse, but it has always puzzled me why players don't stock up on pots. I know plenty of experienced players who still run without the essentials.

Laziness?

I don't know.

I notice it in low levels especially. I dont care how many high level alts they have, I dont see many people who are smart enough to stock up on pots (even just healing pots)....and those who are smart enough are usually pompous and mouthy about it. This has always been the way as far as Ive seen in my time here. Maybe the phenomenon is new to the higher levels like those discussed earlier.

Happiness is finding someone who stocks up on curse pots and still uses them on the noob that doesnt have any.

[BoBoDaClown]

I don't play with low level players too much - so don't have that much of a guage on how that population is, but I would have sympthy with new players not carrying these potions - they probably lack the 'know-how' and the money.

However, I have always noticed higher level players being lacking in this department - it has always been someting that has bemused me. It could certainly be getting owse, with all the 'newbie' high level toons.

[Lleren]

I don't play with low level players too much - so don't have that much of a guage on how that population is, but I would have sympthy with new players not carrying these potions - they probably lack the 'know-how' and the money.

However, I have always noticed higher level players being lacking in this department - it has always been someting that has bemused me. It could certainly be getting owse, with all the 'newbie' high level toons.

Happens in EQ2 at high level as well.
And there they don't really have the excuse of lacking inventory slots.
6 36 slot bags for, well, almost nothing in cost.

[Purgatory]

This has always been a problem, nothing new here.

why is it still a ongoing problem? Easy to many coddlers, not enuf people with the balls to say it how it is cuz you might hurt someone feelings and they might not like you. So they continue to run around with out the proper supplies they should have and continue to be worthless addition to any party they join.

Only thing that is different is name has changed, guild tags have changed and there a lot more of them. and now they cost me xp!

lot more of the ones that take care of themselfs are hiding and soloing to avoid these people so there lot less of the wow this group is nice and lot more screw this im gona go solo.

[Jiipster]

On the other hand, I got to run with the Erebus peeps on a TOD run on Saturday. SMOOTHE!!! Props to that bunch.

Wait, what? Who authorized that? We're not allowed to have smooth runs, we're only allowed to gripe that americans do stuff in such weird ways!

[cupajoe]

My main character is a lvl 19 Rogue. I carry many pots and wands. I am a UMD junkie and I spend an insane amount of money on pots, scrolls, and wands. But, I do not normally carry neutralize poison pots. I have my disease, poison, and wisdom items as necklaces mapped to hot bars. I often get poisoned when wearing my wis item and I just switch to my poison item. I usually make my save but if I don't I hit the restore wand. I know that this takes some extra steps but is it really that bad? I do consider myself self sufficient in most quests. I can run around in the vale for hours and hours before I need to restock. So should I invest in some neutralize poison pots? I don't understand why its bad to switch items.

P.S. Serious question. I ran around for 2 years before learning not to jump up to attack beholders and such (hey I'm a halfling) and about 2 1/2 years before someone finally told me to stop jumping up and down while crossing lava!

[Feylina]

honestly i look at this from the other side. i toss ts on everyone in part 1 and if buffs rolls weren't handed out in part 5 i FoM, FR and NP everyone.

I play a fvs, i'd rather just toss the buffs, use the unlimited spell point pools and get on with my life rather than **** and moan about something like this. I see this all too often coming from vets. someone asks for a pot buff and they get ripped into and it turns into a 10 minute conversation. just toss the **** buff and move on with your life so i don't have to listen to this **** again and get my loot and get out.


you want to rip into someone. pick on that d-bag swinging terror at harry :P

[Purgatory]

honestly i look at this from the other side. i toss ts on everyone in part 1 and if buffs rolls weren't handed out in part 5 i FoM, FR and NP everyone.

I play a fvs, i'd rather just toss the buffs, use the unlimited spell point pools and get on with my life rather than **** and moan about something like this. I see this all too often coming from vets. someone asks for a pot buff and they get ripped into and it turns into a 10 minute conversation. just toss the **** buff and move on with your life so i don't have to listen to this **** again and get my loot and get out.


you want to rip into someone. pick on that d-bag swinging terror at harry :P

this is why we have people refusing to take care of themselfs. There always someone enabaling them, to scared to make waves and it easier to hold there hand threw that one quest then to set a example and hope they get it and are prepared next time.

[Feylina]

this is why we have people refusing to take care of themselfs. There always someone enabaling them, to scared to make waves and it easier to hold there hand threw that one quest then to set a example and hope they get it and are prepared next time.

maybe you should read better. no i don't do it because i'm "scared" to make waves or "hand holding" i do it because it takes less f n time to just cast the **** buff and move on to getting my sp back.

It's not like you guys are talking about during a quest when they get poisoned and could pot or cursed and could pot. You're talking about when you are standing around with unlimited spell points already have the person targeted for another buff and it's so hard to click neutralize poison that you have to turn it into an issue and waste more time than just tossing the buffs.

I've been there for a lot of these types of arguements with new players and honestly it makes you look like a "expletive deleted". Rarely, from my experienced, is the person buffed and then informed that maybe he should pick up the pots in the future. Usually it's just a vet jumping down their throat cause that person is a "fricken n00b".

[adamkatt]

P.S. Serious question. I ran around for 2 years before learning not to jump up to attack beholders and such (hey I'm a halfling) and about 2 1/2 years before someone finally told me to stop jumping up and down while crossing lava!

I dont get either of these 2 points...

[Ministry]

Well, a number of great points, even one that went contrary to my post, but that's cool... haha

1. This run I was on had a few people from DARPA, so I knew Alter would try to put enough people on the team that we could get through it, even if the rest of the team was sub par and didn't carry pots and barely knew what they were doing. This is why I joined the run and yes, end up having to look in the WHO tab normally to see if I recognize the guild name of the person leading before I join anything nowadays. Mostly I just rely on my friends list and other secret channels.

2. Passing out the buffs to avoid arguments / 10 minute discussions is good and bad, so I see that side of the argument to avoid *****, but at the same time, if we keep doing this and no one stands up, these lazy f's just keep getting off easy. So, a few of us get branded as the "bad" guys because we won't put up with their lethargy and cheap ass behaviour. Ya know what... Brand me the bad guy, but maybe the next run that tard I tore into will look before pouring water before the puzzle is solved or will have some pots on them. No guarantees, but who knows.

3. Not carrying the basic potions at any level is silly, but at the upper levels, it's just rude. When you are a newer player to the game or server, I COMPLETELY understand, it's not easy to amasse the plat required to have ALL the pots, ALL the time, so this message is NOT at all directed at these players. This message is directed at the players who have higher alts or are on a character at the level of a Shroud run. How in the freak do Rogues and other Melees not have TONNES of plat in the upper levels? It's virtually impossible. Sell a large, buy your pots, be respectful... Seriously.

4. But, the worst is when people argue about this. Yes, I get so tired of the sub par players in the upper levels who don't admit they don't know what they are doing in a quest or come ill prepared. If you don't know what you are doing or what gear you need, send a tell to the team leader before you get accepted, or join and tell everyone IMMEDIATELY that you are new to the quest and need to quickly know what you need and you will get it. Being at part 5 of the shroud and not knowing what weapons to use on Harry or what pots to have is just flat out IGNORANT in so many ways.

5. Jiipster... Yup, Americans and us Canadians prolly do some ***** that does look innane to ya all, especially after running with a number of the EU players in my time. It's funny, but I have yet to be disappointed by a EU player or guild and as a matter of fact, have been extremely impressed overall. I don't know what it is about y'all, but I've been on only 3 TOD runs (was gone for 7 months, so been catching up), but the Erebus run was so simple... Leader states... "You do this and you guys do that and so on..." Part 1 instructions and buffs done in a minute and completed. Part 2 instructions and buffs done in a minute and done in a minute and completed. Part 3 the same. Clockwork, simple. Everyone knew their role, no deaths, easy. Maybe you guys have some certain levels of expectation, training schools, or something else... and if you do... sign me up.

In conclusion... We are all different, all have different levels of skills and understanding, but honestly I believe it comes down to a certain level of regard and respect for your fellow players to be honest with your knowledge of the game and each quest. If you don't know, ask.... If you don't have, borrow or at least let people know. And in the end... when you chose not to have the requisite gear and knowledge and don't tell people till it's too late... expect that I and many others will either tear into you or make fun of you and that's that. If you think I was hard on ya, you should see me on a bad day. Heaven help those tards if Ren or Wizzly was on that run. You would have ended up dropping group because the tears would have been welling up so large in your eyes that you couldn't play again.

[smatt]

How about this..... If the frigan "I'm so awesome Vets" would spend 1/2 the time they do *****ing about all the noobs in their private channels and on the forums, actually trying to teach the noobs, instead of spamming them with blatant disinformation, and berating them,, perhaps they would get better faster... Ya, I know we'll get the comments from the great ones who forget how bad they sucked way back when, and the claims that they were completely self taught. And of course there are always the new/green players that won't listen to anybody. But I'm finding a lot that ARE willing to listen to advice and are really trying hard. The problem is there's s o few Vets that are really willing to step up and help out many of these poeple who in the end are SAVING DDO.

It's tough with the huge crop of new/unexperianced players coming i. But remember we as Vets had huge amounts of time between new content releases, it was harder to level back then as well, so we had much longer to learn things. Think back to when each of you had only been playing this game for 4 or so months, when it was smaller game in scope.......