A strenght question?

[Disavowed]

I'd like to see what non barbarian classes can get their str up to with just tomes (+3 max), self spells, pots/scrolls, and gear (crafted or non crafted). No festival cookies. Just what you could aquire all year long. If you have a cross class like wizzy/sorc that allows you to cast rage on yourself let's count that. If you have the time I'd like to see it broke down. Not theory or what you can hit. But an actual toon that you play and what the str is at 90% of the time you're questing.

I'd also like to hear from the barbarian players & what they can get up to on their own (raged etc). And a break down of how they get their as well. This could open some eyes to newer people on different ways to roll a new toon.

I'm betting we're going to see some very odd builds with some very high str and it would be fun to see how they got there

Also if it's not too much what you think might be your toons weakness or what you feel you gave up to acquire that str.

[Strakeln]

For a baseline, theoretical barbarian max self-buffed str:

18 base
09 ring with +3 exc. str
08 mighty rage
08 scourge choker
06 titan's grip
05 level ups
04 power rage
04 tome
04 death frenzy
04 hezrou cookie
03 deneith potion
02 frenzy
02 madstone clickie
02 madstone proc
02 FB set
02 capstone
02 rage potion
02 ugoloth potion
02 store-bought potion
01 human versitility
90

I think that's it. Someone correct any mistakes and I'll adjust.

[abull74]

My WF fighter lvl 16 has no uber gear yet, not even a tome, and he can self buff to a 43 STR.

18 base
06 item
04 lvls
03 enhancments
04 double madstone
08 Power surge
----
43 total


Not bad for no REAL gear.......YET


I AM THE FPOON!!!

[gillilandjoshua]

lemme see 12pally/6rngr/2 monk spetznaz gets

18 starting
+3 tome
+5 lvl ups
+2 rams might
+2 rage pot
+4 madstone boots
+6 scourge choker" i know its suppossed to be +8 but some bug with madstone and choker"
+6 item
+3 exeptional on ToD ring
+6 titans grip
---------------------
55 str

[Goldeneye]

Using Strakeln's baseline:

Level 20 Human Fighter
18 base
06 Item
03 +3 exc. str
08 scourge choker
06 titan's grip
05 level ups
04 tome
04 hezrou cookie
03 deneith potion
02 madstone clickie
02 madstone proc
08 kensei
03 fighht ap
02 rage potion
02 ugoloth potion
02 store-bought potion
01 litany
01 Human
=80

[InfidelofHaLL]

and so the epeen contest has begun.... lets see who has the bigger one now

[Disavowed]

and so the epeen contest has begun.... lets see who has the bigger one now

Gilli just opened my eyes to a way to hit 55 w/o any levels of fighter that I wouldn't have thought of. Not a bragging contest nor was it meant to. Just wanted to see the different variations of str builds.

[Emili]

If you just went pure class ... excluding barbarian the average high strength would most likely be a human fighter (unbuffed they stand at +4 over most other classes wearing the same gear because of enhancement) then adding kensai for +8 a rage pot + madstone, etc... they sore up the charts into barb like ranges and fall behind berzerkers by 10. Goldeneye outlined the class when the stars align ... typically thought hover at about 50-56 during an average fight, and hope to align the moon and sun on the raid boss.

In a multiclass a human fighter(kensai II)/ranger 6 beats it and a human kensai II/tempest I/barb 2 beats that.

One thing you should note however... strength is not the only factor in DPS, feats, racial attributes, class enhancements, weaponry and items all contribute.

[Disavowed]

If you just went pure class ... excluding barbarian the average high strength would most likely be a human fighter (unbuffed they stand at +4 over most other classes wearing the same gear because of enhancement) then adding kensai for +8 a rage pot + madstone, etc... they sore up the charts into barb like ranges and fall behind berzerkers by 10. Goldeneye outlined the class when the stars align ... typically thought hover at about 50-56 during an average fight, and hope to align the moon and sun on the raid boss.

In a multiclass a human fighter(kensai II)/ranger 6 beats it and a human kensai II/tempest I/barb 2 beats that.

One thing you should note however... strength is not the only factor in DPS, feats, racial attributes, class enhancements, weaponry and items all contribute.

I was thinking about the ranger part catching up to the fighter enhancements w/ rams might or enough fighter to get fighter str 3 and enough rgr to add rams might as well totalling 5. But I forgot about Kensai.

I also agree about the gear and feats thing and is why I asked what if anything people felt they gave up to get that high of a str.

[Emili]

I was thinking about the ranger part catching up to the fighter enhancements w/ rams might or enough fighter to get fighter str 3 and enough rgr to add rams might as well totalling 5. But I forgot about Kensai.

Straight twf kensai III with capstone is a little barb on crack... you're at about +65 to hit and +54/+43 damage (with PA on) on main/off hands when raid boosted going into the fight then have 10% acilarity and 35% haste boost for 20 secs a piece.

I love rangers(have three in fact) my Einin who is a human 18 ranger/2 fighter ... She was a 14/2 before mod 9 and the two splash fighter was not only for the two extra feats, it added another 10% haste attack boost and another strength point. The other option I considered back then was 12 ranger 2 fighter 2 barb.

If you look at the multi-class human kensai II/tempest I/barb 2 I outlined in the prior post there are break points there on str and acilarity... You plan it out and adjust it for melee str you find outside barbarian pures these things muscular. 12 fighter is kensai II (+8), 6 ranger is Rams, and 2 Barb is +4 from rage.

12 fighter is at least +2 str and also kensai II (a +8 str boost) and a decent attack haste boost if you want it and another +6 damage from the feats/enhancements required to be a kensai.

6 ranger is tempest I plus rams might (this subs for fighter capstone adds in rams, die hard, manyshot, bow str and has twf and itwf and a better reflex save and 4 exta skill points and two favored enemies on ranger levels compared to 3 feats and 12 hp is really more like exchanging 1 for 4 since you plan on taking gtwf/itwf anyway.) So now you're already stronger then a pure fighter.

2 barb splash adds fast movement a few more hp and a barb rage is +4 str ... this last for 3 minutes easily when your con is decent... well more then enough for should the raid boss fight take a little longer in the group you're in.

result +2 str from fighter enhancemets +8 from kensai, + 4 from a barb rage (stacks with all other rages) and rams as a 6th level caster. Plan it tweak it and build it ...

I also agree about the gear and feats thing and is why I asked what if anything people felt they gave up to get that high of a str.

Things given up? Evasion is always the biggy... and of course situational damage, favored, Sneak attack, Kotc, etc...

[Disavowed]

Straight twf kensai III with capstone is a little barb on crack... you're at about +65 to hit and +54/+43 damage (with PA on) on main/off hands when raid boosted going into the fight then have 10% acilarity and 35% haste boost for 20 secs a piece.

I love rangers(have three in fact) my Einin who is a human 18 ranger/2 fighter ... She was a 14/2 before mod 9 and the two splash fighter was not only for the two extra feats, it added another 10% haste attack boost and another strength point. The other option I considered back then was 12 ranger 2 fighter 2 barb.

If you look at the multi-class human kensai II/tempest I/barb 2 I outlined in the prior post there are break points there on str and acilarity... You plan it out and adjust it for melee str you find outside barbarian pures these things muscular. 12 fighter is kensai II (+8), 6 ranger is Rams, and 2 Barb is +4 from rage.

12 fighter is at least +2 str and also kensai II (a +8 str boost) and a decent attack haste boost if you want it and another +6 damage from the feats/enhancements required to be a kensai.

6 ranger is tempest I plus rams might (this subs for fighter capstone adds in rams, die hard, manyshot, bow str and has twf and itwf and a better reflex save and 4 exta skill points and two favored enemies on ranger levels compared to 3 feats and 12 hp is really more like exchanging 1 for 4 since you plan on taking gtwf/itwf anyway.) So now you're already stronger then a pure fighter.

2 barb splash adds fast movement a few more hp and a barb rage is +4 str ... this last for 3 minutes easily when your con is decent... well more then enough for should the raid boss fight take a little longer in the group you're in.

result +2 str from fighter enhancemets +8 from kensai, + 4 from a barb rage (stacks with all other rages) and rams as a 6th level caster. Plan it tweak it and build it ...



Things given up? Evasion is always the biggy... and of course situational damage, favored, Sneak attack, Kotc, etc...

TY again. I'm leaning toward your ranger build as I think it could be a little more self sufficient and bring a little more to the table. It looks as if it might have slightly less STR end game but the extra bennies would make up for it for it to appeal to the way I like to play. I have a pure WF barb that is maxed for STR an HP but I hate the fact that it brings little to the table to help the party in other ways and isn't very self sufficient other than pots.

If you get the time could you P.M. you favorite ranger build along w/ what it maxes out in hp and str?

[Rabbi_Hordo]

TY again. I'm leaning toward your ranger build as I think it could be a little more self sufficient and bring a little more to the table. It looks as if it might have slightly less STR end game but the extra bennies would make up for it for it to appeal to the way I like to play. I have a pure WF barb that is maxed for STR an HP but I hate the fact that it brings little to the table to help the party in other ways and isn't very self sufficient other than pots.

If you get the time could you P.M. you favorite ranger build along w/ what it maxes out in hp and str?

Ditto. Now I'm intrigued enough to, dare I say it, roll another Hordotoon™.

[Disavowed]

Ditto. Now I'm intrigued enough to, dare I say it, roll another Hordotoon™.

OH Sh!t! Another Hordo!!! What's the world coming to. Blast that Gornn for making you one of his prophets.

I do not like green eggs and Gornn.

[gillilandjoshua]

Straight twf kensai III with capstone is a little barb on crack... you're at about +65 to hit and +54/+43 damage (with PA on) on main/off hands when raid boosted going into the fight then have 10% acilarity and 35% haste boost for 20 secs a piece.

I love rangers(have three in fact) my Einin who is a human 18 ranger/2 fighter ... She was a 14/2 before mod 9 and the two splash fighter was not only for the two extra feats, it added another 10% haste attack boost and another strength point. The other option I considered back then was 12 ranger 2 fighter 2 barb.

If you look at the multi-class human kensai II/tempest I/barb 2 I outlined in the prior post there are break points there on str and acilarity... You plan it out and adjust it for melee str you find outside barbarian pures these things muscular. 12 fighter is kensai II (+8), 6 ranger is Rams, and 2 Barb is +4 from rage.

12 fighter is at least +2 str and also kensai II (a +8 str boost) and a decent attack haste boost if you want it and another +6 damage from the feats/enhancements required to be a kensai.

6 ranger is tempest I plus rams might (this subs for fighter capstone adds in rams, die hard, manyshot, bow str and has twf and itwf and a better reflex save and 4 exta skill points and two favored enemies on ranger levels compared to 3 feats and 12 hp is really more like exchanging 1 for 4 since you plan on taking gtwf/itwf anyway.) So now you're already stronger then a pure fighter.

2 barb splash adds fast movement a few more hp and a barb rage is +4 str ... this last for 3 minutes easily when your con is decent... well more then enough for should the raid boss fight take a little longer in the group you're in.

result +2 str from fighter enhancemets +8 from kensai, + 4 from a barb rage (stacks with all other rages) and rams as a 6th level caster. Plan it tweak it and build it ...



Things given up? Evasion is always the biggy... and of course situational damage, favored, Sneak attack, Kotc, etc...

Well thought out post and articulated well. these are qualities i lack glad to see a post that didn't get flamed horribly for once.

[Rabbi_Hordo]

OH Sh!t! Another Hordo!!! What's the world coming to. Blast that Gornn for making you one of his prophets.

I do not like green eggs and Gornn.

One of these days I'm gonna use my Genealogy software and invent a Hordo's Family Tree just to post it and make you thow up in your mouth a little!

Actually, were I able to include builds, both former and current, I myself might throw up a lot!

I had some real doozies at one time...and many would say still!

[Stamp3de]

58 was my highest on my paladin before I reincarnated


Raised str by 1
Don't have littany yet another +1
+4 str tome for +1
and +3 from a collectables potion

So I guess my max would be 64 for maybe 2 seconds while all of scourge is active.

[stz]

58 str on a rogue with 1 scourge proc

// 1 second before Keradi kills me //

16 start
5 levelups
2 tome
6 str item
3 exc str item
2 rage potion
2 essence of fury
2 elixir lasting bull's might
2 barbarian rage
6 titan's grip
4 hezrou
2 madstone I
2 madstone II
2 bloodrage I

58


--------------

3 deneith potion
1 litany
2 bloodrage II
2 bloodrage III
2 bloodrage IV
2 (+4) tome
2 non halfling starting
1 human enhancement
2 ram's might ( tempest rogue )

75 max for a human tempest rogue

anything I gave up for this str ? nothing :-) ( int is a dump stat for a rogue )

[Disavowed]

58 str on a rogue with 1 scourge proc

// 1 second before Keradi kills me //

16 start
5 levelups
2 tome
6 str item
3 exc str item
2 rage potion
2 essence of fury
2 elixir lasting bull's might
2 barbarian rage
6 titan's grip
4 hezrou
2 madstone I
2 madstone II
2 bloodrage I
2 bloodrage II

58


--------------

3 deneith potion
2 bloodrage III
2 bloodrage IV
2 (+4) tome
2 non halfling starting
2 ram's might ( tempest rogue )

73 max for a non halfling tempest rogue

I didn't even know quicktoe was a STR rogue. That's bad ass bro. How often do you run araound like that? Is it just for fianl boss fights or are you like that all quest. If not what are you sitting at for regular dungeon melee?

Also do you rely on any of the assassination enhancements or just stick w/ backstab damage and str dps. I'm wondering because you said you dump statted int which is part of the saves for assassination. If you do use the assassinate enhancement how often do you not confirm on a crit?

Thanks,

Eric

[stz]

I didn't even know quicktoe was a STR rogue. That's bad ass bro. How often do you run araound like that? Is it just for fianl boss fights or are you like that all quest. If not what are you sitting at for regular dungeon melee?

Thanks, haha I wish I run around like that.. I really only use scourge for fights like arraetrikos pt4/5 and mariliths ( because they hit non ac builds constantly it'll keep on 'bloodrage I' state which is good ! in any case, for non acrobat rogues vs mariliths, its better to have slower attack speed than knocked down on the floor not being able to stand up and swing )

3*titan's grip and 2*barb rage are used for big fights between shrines / end boss. Normal quest str is 42 ( assuming single madstoned, no barb rage, titan, hezrou and scourge ).

I took assasin III solely just for the vorpal + extra backstab / crit damage. I haven't seen any high INT rogues doing well assasinating in end game quests, even caster mobs. I still think it's not fast enough compared to high DPS coupled with rad II ( welcome to epic ! )

[Disavowed]

Thanks, haha I wish I run around like that.. I really only use scourge for fights like arraetrikos pt4/5 and mariliths ( because they hit non ac builds constantly it'll keep on 'bloodrage I' state which is good ! in any case, for non acrobat rogues vs mariliths, its better to have slower attack speed than knocked down on the floor not being able to stand up and swing )

3*titan's grip and 2*barb rage are used for big fights between shrines / end boss. Normal quest str is 42 ( assuming single madstoned, no barb rage, titan, hezrou and scourge ).

I took assasin III solely just for the vorpal + extra backstab / crit damage. I haven't seen any high INT rogues doing well assasinating in end game quests, even caster mobs. I still think it's not fast enough compared to high DPS coupled with rad II ( welcome to epic ! )

Do you think assassin 3 is worth it or would you stop at 2?

I'm thinking if I'm str based I'm gonna use slashing weps. Meaning I can find a vorp on any slashing wep anyway. Thus no need for assassin 3.