Deepwood... lost in the forest?

[Kaeldur]

Well, since Update 3 release is set for Feb 3rd, I doubt the DwS will be getting anything new, but I still would like to get any news about it... AA is getting his love, and along with this nerfing any non-bow-using AA "splashed" builds by restricting abilities to bows only. Luckily (to me) I got this info before I compromised my character...

The DwS abilities apparently will work for any ranged attacks. So I come to plead: don't keep the DwS lost in the forest! Bring him out and give him some love! For the sake of us non-bow-using ranged characters!

[Visty]

first: restricting AA to bows only wasnt a nerf, it was a fix
second: sadly turbine is unable to work on more then 1-2 PrEs at a time, otherwise we would have way more ingame already

[Lorien_the_First_One]

first: restricting AA to bows only wasnt a nerf, it was a fix
second: sadly turbine is unable to work on more then 1-2 PrEs at a time, otherwise we would have way more ingame already

And before multiple ones get fully implimented for ranger... how about L2/3 for bard, how about any PrE for cleric, wiz, sorc, etc...

[Ganak]

second: sadly turbine is unable to work on more then 1-2 PrEs at a time, otherwise we would have way more ingame already

Unable due to to the depth of work needed or unwilling to commit the resources?



Over a year ago we were presented with the Holiday Prestige Class List, with a timeline of all planned PrC's being done in a year. So, at some point the developers thought they could put in 25-30+ PrC's over 12 months. It was a crazy year, so totally understand not being within the year timeframe, but we are past the launch, revenue is up, resulting in more development resources.

It appears the PrC's are being stretched out perhaps? However, expanding beyond the three PrC's per class has been in the clouds in the past as a direction development will go. There are so many possible PrC's, possible content is not a problem.

Why cannot we get three PrC's per class within a year?

To tie this back to DwS, I reflect on my own poor DwS. I choose to play as a DwS because I love the concept of what a DwS and I want my fella to play as such. With tempest flushed out and now AA (good for AA btw), I feel left alone

I feel not having equal numbers of PrC's across all classes is a game imbalance. Why? Look at the popularity of tempest upon its release some time ago. It affects the character building paradigm and in-game it affects how the game is played through party makeup, quests popular to run, and even how we play. For example, imagine if we had KotC first upon the shroud's release and not tempest? Do you think it would be uncommon to have seen parties with 6 KotC's in the shroud or the sub? Did you ever see shroud groups early after its release that even shunned paladins? Do you think the game design affects what classes people play?


Do PrC's take that much development and testing resources? If so, I'll throw a slight rub: We're seeing development time in house D improvements and ice games. Why are these resources not in PrC development?

Through the first two years or so, we had excellent communication from the developers, both in specifics as well as design philosophy. In my view, this was scaled back for a number of reasons, and being sparse of specifics (dates, timelines, etc) is understandable as it is important to manage expectations. Talking about higher level development philosophies would not appear to be as committal and could solicit good feedback.

What are the current overall design thoughts on the unrolling of the rest of the PrC's?

My DwS will ride high one day! The wait is a bummer...

[omastar444]

Unable due to to the depth of work needed or unwilling to commit the resources?



Over a year ago we were presented with the Holiday Prestige Class List, with a timeline of all planned PrC's being done in a year. So, at some point the developers thought they could put in 25-30+ PrC's over 12 months. It was a crazy year, so totally understand not being within the year timeframe, but we are past the launch, revenue is up, resulting in more development resources.

It appears the PrC's are being stretched out perhaps? However, expanding beyond the three PrC's per class has been in the clouds in the past as a direction development will go. There are so many possible PrC's, possible content is not a problem.

Why cannot we get three PrC's per class within a year?

To tie this back to DwS, I reflect on my own poor DwS. I choose to play as a DwS because I love the concept of what a DwS and I want my fella to play as such. With tempest flushed out and now AA (good for AA btw), I feel left alone

I feel not having equal numbers of PrC's across all classes is a game imbalance. Why? Look at the popularity of tempest upon its release some time ago. It affects the character building paradigm and in-game it affects how the game is played through party makeup, quests popular to run, and even how we play. For example, imagine if we had KotC first upon the shroud's release and not tempest? Do you think it would be uncommon to have seen parties with 6 KotC's in the shroud or the sub? Did you ever see shroud groups early after its release that even shunned paladins? Do you think the game design affects what classes people play?


Do PrC's take that much development and testing resources? If so, I'll throw a slight rub: We're seeing development time in house D improvements and ice games. Why are these resources not in PrC development?

Through the first two years or so, we had excellent communication from the developers, both in specifics as well as design philosophy. In my view, this was scaled back for a number of reasons, and being sparse of specifics (dates, timelines, etc) is understandable as it is important to manage expectations. Talking about higher level development philosophies would not appear to be as committal and could solicit good feedback.

What are the current overall design thoughts on the unrolling of the rest of the PrC's?

My DwS will ride high one day! The wait is a bummer...

The problem is that they cant just focus on PrC development. They need to focus on new quests, new items, new events, new classes (Druid), new races (Half-orc), and PrC. So it takes time. Also they will give DwS their day, sadly that day is not for a while. Give them time.
Also just be glad your class even has a PrC. Monks, sorcs, clerics, and Favored souls don't have ANY!

[GeneralDiomedes]

I'm guessing some of it is due to balancing issues .. especially in the case of Warchanter.

[Visty]

I'm guessing some of it is due to balancing issues .. especially in the case of Warchanter.

bringing them out all at once would require much less balancing then spreading them out over several years

[Auran82]

I'm guessing some of it is due to balancing issues .. especially in the case of Warchanter.

But does anyone really have any idea what directions the PREs are going to be going in?

Especially the ones where the first/second tier has been released, I would have thought the would have had the rough ideas planned out, but going by recent info (like the ToD set bonuses) I'm not so sure.

[hu-flung-pu]

Through the first two years or so, we had excellent communication from the developers, both in specifics as well as design philosophy. In my view, this was scaled back for a number of reasons, and being sparse of specifics (dates, timelines, etc) is understandable as it is important to manage expectations. Talking about higher level development philosophies would not appear to be as committal and could solicit good feedback.

What are the current overall design thoughts on the unrolling of the rest of the PrC's?

My DwS will ride high one day! The wait is a bummer...

You're kidding with this part right?

We've never had good involvement with Turbine over anything. They've pretty much done what they wanted.

Now, they never said the PrE list was what's coming in a year, that's your interpretation of that post and it's wrong. Warforged Juggernaut's are lieing in wait by the way.

That's what they'll be working on, in between adding content, and fun things like the winter games tribute. Part of what makes other MMO's so succesful, is the fact that they create a sense of community. Something this winter games thing does. I welcome this more then the rush for more PrE's just because it's something they can bring around again and again. Hell, maybe incorporate it in to a quest.

[Greydeath]

first: restricting AA to bows only wasnt a nerf, it was a fix

It was indeed a nerf. You really need to look up what the word means.

Whether it was a NECESSARY nerf or not is another question - but do not try to play it off as something other than what it is.

[Greydeath]

Unable due to to the depth of work needed or unwilling to commit the resources?



Over a year ago we were presented with the Holiday Prestige Class List, with a timeline of all planned PrC's being done in a year. So, at some point the developers thought they could put in 25-30+ PrC's over 12 months. It was a crazy year, so totally understand not being within the year timeframe, but we are past the launch, revenue is up, resulting in more development resources.

It appears the PrC's are being stretched out perhaps? However, expanding beyond the three PrC's per class has been in the clouds in the past as a direction development will go. There are so many possible PrC's, possible content is not a problem.

Why cannot we get three PrC's per class within a year?

To tie this back to DwS, I reflect on my own poor DwS. I choose to play as a DwS because I love the concept of what a DwS and I want my fella to play as such. With tempest flushed out and now AA (good for AA btw), I feel left alone

I feel not having equal numbers of PrC's across all classes is a game imbalance. Why? Look at the popularity of tempest upon its release some time ago. It affects the character building paradigm and in-game it affects how the game is played through party makeup, quests popular to run, and even how we play. For example, imagine if we had KotC first upon the shroud's release and not tempest? Do you think it would be uncommon to have seen parties with 6 KotC's in the shroud or the sub? Did you ever see shroud groups early after its release that even shunned paladins? Do you think the game design affects what classes people play?


Do PrC's take that much development and testing resources? If so, I'll throw a slight rub: We're seeing development time in house D improvements and ice games. Why are these resources not in PrC development?

Through the first two years or so, we had excellent communication from the developers, both in specifics as well as design philosophy. In my view, this was scaled back for a number of reasons, and being sparse of specifics (dates, timelines, etc) is understandable as it is important to manage expectations. Talking about higher level development philosophies would not appear to be as committal and could solicit good feedback.

What are the current overall design thoughts on the unrolling of the rest of the PrC's?

My DwS will ride high one day! The wait is a bummer...

+1
QFT - phenominal post that highlights the current problems.

I would disagrree and suggest that good communication only lasted for the first year... but otherwise you are spot on.

[Greydeath]

You're kidding with this part right?

We've never had good involvement with Turbine over anything. They've pretty much done what they wanted.

Now, they never said the PrE list was what's coming in a year, that's your interpretation of that post and it's wrong. Warforged Juggernaut's are lieing in wait by the way.

That's what they'll be working on, in between adding content, and fun things like the winter games tribute. Part of what makes other MMO's so succesful, is the fact that they create a sense of community. Something this winter games thing does. I welcome this more then the rush for more PrE's just because it's something they can bring around again and again. Hell, maybe incorporate it in to a quest.

Actually the only thing wrong here is you. We DID HAVE good communication - back in the day... before Kate and before Tarrant.

Does the PrE list post give specific dates? No, but the other posts and state of the game at the same time did.

Perhaps you think we have Druids, Half-Orcs, Half-Elfs and everything else Kate also promised us in 2007

We have no idea if Juggernaut is even off the to-do list. The last info about Racial PrEs was that Drow would be getting one as well. Before that it was that Dwarfs may NOT infact get Defender

As someone that thinks Monks are fine, you have a very strange veiw of the state of the game - but hey, perhaps some people are easily distracted by flash (ice rinks) rather than substance (PrEs)

[Visty]

It was indeed a nerf. You really need to look up what the word means.

Whether it was a NECESSARY nerf or not is another question - but do not try to play it off as something other than what it is.

it wasnt working as intented so its a fix, not a nerf

that evasion does only work in light armor wasnt a nerf either, it was a fix

maybe its you who has to check the meanings again

[hu-flung-pu]

Actually the only thing wrong here is you. We DID HAVE good communication - back in the day... before Kate and before Tarrant.

Does the PrE list post give specific dates? No, but the other posts and state of the game at the same time did.

Perhaps you think we have Druids, Half-Orcs, Half-Elfs and everything else Kate also promised us in 2007

We have no idea if Juggernaut is even off the to-do list. The last info about Racial PrEs was that Drow would be getting one as well. Before that it was that Dwarfs may NOT infact get Defender

As someone that thinks Monks are fine, you have a very strange veiw of the state of the game - but hey, perhaps some people are easily distracted by flash (ice rinks) rather than substance (PrEs)

All business all the time! Very serious person here Mr. Serious!

Ish happens. You either accept it, or you have a *****-fit. There's also no telling how much was delayed with the **** that happened with Turbine and Atari.

Who are you again to establish strawman arguments about statements I may or may not have said?

[Greydeath]

Who are you again to establish strawman arguments about statements I may or may not have said?

Here is what you said

You're kidding with this part right?

We've never had good involvement with Turbine over anything. They've pretty much done what they wanted.

Now, they never said the PrE list was what's coming in a year, that's your interpretation of that post and it's wrong. Warforged Juggernaut's are lieing in wait by the way.

That's what they'll be working on, in between adding content, and fun things like the winter games tribute. Part of what makes other MMO's so succesful, is the fact that they create a sense of community. Something this winter games thing does. I welcome this more then the rush for more PrE's just because it's something they can bring around again and again. Hell, maybe incorporate it in to a quest.

not surprisingly this is what I addressed. Nice how you avoided the issue of you being wrong (again). Looking to be schooled once more are you?

[Greydeath]

it wasnt working as intented so its a fix, not a nerf

Wrong

that evasion does only work in light armor wasnt a nerf either, it was a fix

It works that way now yes, but originally it was not the same as PnP. Therefore it was a nerf.

Again, whether they were necessary or not is a different arguement from them being nerfs.

[Visty]

Wrong

lol, Eladrin said it wasnt working as intented but it wasnt worth the hassle yet to fix it and you say that is wrong?
get some perspective

[barecm]

The problem is that they cant just focus on PrC development. They need to focus on new quests, new items, new events, new classes (Druid), new races (Half-orc), and PrC. So it takes time. Also they will give DwS their day, sadly that day is not for a while. Give them time.
Also just be glad your class even has a PrC. Monks, sorcs, clerics, and Favored souls don't have ANY!

You can't tell me that in December of last year they had no idea that F2P was on the table. No major corporation is that short-sighted. In fact, it was not long after that the "vast and mysetrious" talks started happening too. Then, factor in that they said mod 9 was ready go but the legal issues slowed its release; which did NOT include any PrEs. Even more indication they knew exactly where the game was going last year. So, I place the blame on them for putting out a underdeveloped product (the original small offering of PrE's) and then waiting over a year to produce a mere 2 more PrE's. Poor planning is to blame here, nothing less or more.

[hu-flung-pu]

Here is what you said

not surprisingly this is what I addressed. Nice how you avoided the issue of you being wrong (again). Looking to be schooled once more are you?

Who the hell are you? And what the hell are you talking about?

I feel like Martin Blank in the movie "Grosse Point Blank".

The former bully at the high school reunion keeps trying to punk Martin Blank, until there's this confrontation.

Martin Blank: Do you *really* believe that there's some stored up conflict that exists between us? There *is* no us. *We* don't exist. So who do you wanna hit, man? It's not me. Now whaddya wanna do here, man?

The only thing I've avoided is your lunacy, and obvious perceived slight.

[Cylinwolf]

Wrong

In terms of speaking, "nerf" in an MMO world (or, I could suppose, in the regular gaming industry) is not "making something less poweful than before", it's "making something less powerful than before for the intent of balancing."

If a new raid boss came out who fired a scorching ray that was intended to kill one player in the raid every minute, but it was killing seven people at a time, that's not working as intended and changing it down so that it actually kills one player every minute is a fix to a bug. The encounter is certainly less powerful and much easier to beat, but it has not been "nerfed."

If the new raid boss came out who fired a scorching ray that killed seven players in the raid every minute, as it was intended, but that was reduced down to one person at a time so that the raid would be more managable and beatable, that is a nerf. The encounter is certainly less powerful and much easier to beat, but the change was made because the raid boss was too powerful and the devs wanted you to beat it.