Possible solution to make Necrotic Touch balanced

[Sarezar]

I think this would work, but only a dev could confirm it.

Add a pop up box like Fire Shield and Delayed Blast Fireball have, with two icons: one for a ray version that does damage, and one for a "cure" like cast (close range, like the clerics cure spells). That way the two versions could have different "damage dealt", as they would basically be two different spells. You could have decent damage for the ray version that would also allow metamagics to be applied to it, and lower the "damage" for the "heal undead friend/self" version to keep it balanced without the metamagics.

[Favis]

/agree

this suggestion is better then a similar solustioin I suggested (that the same spell should do higher damage then it should "give hp back").

[ddoer]

as mentioned in another thread, I think the bottom line is, there should be some scenarios that we could consider to use Necrotic Touch, there are a number of options:

1. make a new/change to a ray version, keep the current damage level
   As a ray, we could always include in any nuking cycle. It's preferable to have better damage but as it is almost free, there is no big deal to include it as the 3rd or 4th damage spell in a cycle.
2. keep it as is, allow self healing, and allow quicken to apply to it
   Harm scrolls could heal more than the current NT and will be the first choice in most cases, but in extreme scenarios, a quicken NT for healing is useful. Unlimited slow healing is good enough and I don't care about deal damage as I have other damage spells
3. keep the current damage and range, and make it works like Eternal Wand with a slowly rechargeable limit (given a normal Shavarath may take 20 hit to kill, it's reasonable to have 50 charges), shorten the timer to 1s, it works like a close range machine gun and will be very funny to use. Even though it is usually not practical as if we want to deal damage, we will use a high damage spell rather than keep shooting for 20s.
4. make it a high damage touch. the damage should be high enough to one-shoot a normal shavarath mob on crit. Necromancer are good at instant kill and we'll still use fod/wail for the most of case.
5. remove the damage version and make different touches to deal stats damage or effects like instant death/paralyzing like the original dnd. See #4 of Please fix Pale Master! Here are my suggestions

[Kriogen]

I think this would work, but only a dev could confirm it.

Add a pop up box like Fire Shield and Delayed Blast Fireball have, with two icons: one for a ray version that does damage, and one for a "cure" like cast (close range, like the clerics cure spells). That way the two versions could have different "damage dealt", as they would basically be two different spells. You could have decent damage for the ray version that would also allow metamagics to be applied to it, and lower the "damage" for the "heal undead friend/self" version to keep it balanced without the metamagics.

Neh, thats too simple and would work. Things like that do NOT belong into DDO.

It has to be pre-nerfed, complex and full of bugs so it takes 3-4 extra modules to finally fix it.

[Samadhi]

While it needs to be balanced, we also need to consider how absurd the motivation is to play a WF if you are making a wizard in the current system. ANY system that makes playing casters of any race at least closer to equal to the abilities of a WF wizard is a huge step in the right direction.

[ddoer]

While it needs to be balanced, we also need to consider how absurd the motivation is to play a WF if you are making a wizard in the current system. ANY system that makes playing casters of any race at least closer to equal to the abilities of a WF wizard is a huge step in the right direction.

it means we have to be able to self-harm with quicken spell in undead form. I'd like to see it but the devs seem to be moving away from this direction.

from what I have read, no one has strongly asked for unlimited self-heal in undead form. (which is not unreasonable as FvS capstone does allow unlimited healing) All we want is a reasonable way to self-heal, and all they give is Inflict Serious Wound scroll healing.

[Samadhi]

it means we have to be able to self-harm with quicken spell in undead form. I'd like to see it but the devs seem to be moving away from this direction.

...

This is kind of the point. It already exists for a certain race - but we will dumb down to the point of uselessness a chance to correct this imbalance - and maybe give wizards some reason to exist in the face of sorcerers or WF.

[Aesop]

Given the absurdly limited Negative Energy spell effects that are available to wizards in the game they need a whole lot more to make the PrE viable... as it stands it really isn't a GOOD choice.

Vampiric Touch needs to be added to the game before this PrE even has a decent spell that it'll work with.


In that vain.



I resubmitt


Necrotic Touch

DC= 10+1/2 Wizard level +Int Mod (Necro Focus etc all apply as well) vs Fortitude for half damage

Damage = 1d4 per caster level

Range= Touch

Cost= None ******

Target= Other Enemy

vs Undead= applies a Fear affect (no damage)

Metamagics= WORK or else the effect is useless... its akin to taking away a Barbarians Strength Bonus from weapon damage


Lich Form: (dismissable)
Cost: 30sp (Extendable)
Duration: 1 min +3 sec per Wizard level

+2 Int
+2 Con
+2 Wis
+2 Cha

+3 Natural Armor

+100% Fortification

Necrotic Aura: Every 2 sec Enemy Living and Allied Undead (including the PM) within range have a minor Negative Energy Effect (1d3 plus applicable Negative Energy Enhancements but not Metamagics)

Energy Drain: On a failed save Necrotic Touch additionally applies 1 negative level while the caster is in Lich Form

Immune to Positive Energy: No healing for you (but Negative Energy spells that heal undead also heal you)



Wraith Form: (dismissable)
Cost: 30 SP (Extendable)
Duration: 1 min +3 sec per Wizard level

Glide: Wraithes don't walk they float dang it... this confers a +20 on Move Silently Checks additionally for 20sp a Wraith Form can produce a effect similar to the Monk Abundant Step Ability

Lingering Touch: On a failed Save Necrotic Touch stops a creature from regenerating hp, negative levels and ability damage. This effect persists for 1 minute. Additionally any creature slain while this effect is active raises as a dread zombie under the control of the PM for the duration of 1 min at the end of which the Zombie explodes... like dread zombies sometimes do.

Wounding Touch: the PMs unarmed strikes cause 1 point of constitution damage per hit.

Intangable: being semi incorporeal has some additional benefits... 25% miss chance (that applies separately from Blur/Displacement)

Immunity to Positive Energy: see above


Summons: First thing first. No ANNOYING AS HELL spell effects. No Sleet Storm, no Grease, no anything that is detrimental to the party.

Second. Can we get these things to progress as we do? I mean a CR 3 skeleton is almost ... scratch that... completely useless. Even if they are effectively 2 CR less than our level or something. So yeah at level 6 Wizard the skeleton is CR 4 but when we are level 19 its CR 17... still not going to be overpowered because its a bleedin skeleton.


extra schlock:

Tier 2 and three of the PrE should apply a +1 to the DC and Spell Penetration of Necromantic Spells and Effects...

Aesop

[Sarezar]

Even if all the things I listed cannot be applied to a dual version spell (due to mechanics/code/etc), just create two ability-spells with different effects. This spell is an ability that you receive from the PrE, it's not an actual spell you prepare, so this would work as well.

PS. Naming is of no matter to me, it's the effect that counts.