Ranged Hatred and Myths.

[Ninetoes]

The funny thing is that I would rather them fix ranged combat for melee Barbarians without Rapid Shot, and fix it for the wizard who ran out of SP and pulls out his crossbow.

Than see them give any more power to Arcane Archers or Rangers.

I'm not following you here. Why fix it for people who won't be using it nearly as much as dedicated ranged-types? I actually sort of dig the idea of resolving it with a feat-fix, it would demonstrate that while many people can use these martial and simple weapons, only a select few can put them to effective use, as opposed to just using them as a standby.

Not intentionally thumbing my nose at you, I'm just curious as to the logic behind your desire.

[Angelus_dead]

I'm not following you here. Why fix it for people who won't be using it nearly as much as dedicated ranged-types?

Maybe you can figure it out yourself if you think about what would happen if characters without total melee-specialization lost the melee effectiveness they currently have. Or if everyone but Cleric and FVS lost all healing.

As a general matter, is it a good idea for characters without complete specialization in a field to be worthless at it?

[Ninetoes]

Maybe you can figure it out yourself if you think about what would happen if characters without total melee-specialization lost the melee effectiveness they currently have. Or if everyone but Cleric and FVS lost all healing.

As a general matter, is it a good idea for characters without complete specialization in a field to be worthless at it?

Right, but Can a Ranger using a wand heal as effectively as a FvS/Cleric? Not at all. It's not optimal in any way. Healing is a rather odd comparison, as healing is not currently broken on characters who want to specifically do this, while Ranged damage is FAR inferior to Melle.

So, lets take the healing example. Lets assume for a moment that healing IS broken, and people really only use it situationally or on gimped builds. Even clerics and FvS can't keep up with the damage that mobs put out, however, Repair heals are performing normally. By your comparison, classes that don't list healing as a class focus should get fixed before Clerics and FvS. What you're trying to tell me is that in my situation, Rangers and Paladins should have their healing mechanics boosted and workable BEFORE addressing the issue with Clerics and Fvs.

Even this is an awkward comparison. You can make an argument that a completely ranged character, with the right gear and build, can contribute in a small way. I've seen threads that demonstrate as such, but it's apparently very rare. But to request that something be fixed for classes that don't even specialize in said broken mechanic BEFORE fixing the classes that are supposed to make good use of it is a confusing concept to me.

[Angelus_dead]

But to request that something be fixed for classes that don't even specialize in said broken mechanic BEFORE fixing the classes that are supposed to make good use of it is a confusing concept to me.

It isn't complicated. Look at these two options, and figure out which one involves less total effort.

Option 1
Fix ranged combat for all characters, starting with baseline weapons (longbow, repeater, thrower).
Set the power of AA and DWS accordingly.

Option 2
Fix ranged combat for only those characters with specific ranged specialty enhancements (AA and DWS).
Fix ranged combat for all characters, starting with baseline weapons.
Now that ranged weapons became stronger in general, AA and DWS are overpowered
So throw away the AA and DWS work and start them over.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I'm not following you here. Why fix it for people who won't be using it nearly as much as dedicated ranged-types? I actually sort of dig the idea of resolving it with a feat-fix, it would demonstrate that while many people can use these martial and simple weapons, only a select few can put them to effective use, as opposed to just using them as a standby.

Not intentionally thumbing my nose at you, I'm just curious as to the logic behind your desire.

Because curently a char who has not invested heavily in ranged combat has a ranged attack that is so pitiful, it is practicaly useless.

Which IMO adds to the ranged hatred.

Since everyone does not have a valid ranged combat option, they do not use ranged when it would seem to make tactical sense to do so.

And with DDOs agro system working the way it does it tends to make melee combat and ranged combat incompatible. or at least anoying for many players.

It's hard to explain. But I just feel that if all characters had a valid ranged combat option it would increase its use and appreciation for all players.

it would allow more group tactics involving ranged combat.

Also Rangers are already a very powerful class. I like them, but they have so many good abilities that the need no more help IMO.

But ranged combat over all is broken.

I do want to see ranged combat sped up for rangers too.

But they need less help than other classes when it comes to ranged.

Rangers can already use ranged combat effectively. In fact, manyshot, a good bow, Improved Crit....and special arrows does some really good damage.

I do want to see non-manyshot sped up. but Manyshot needs no help at all. Any change to Manyshot would make it too powerful IMO.

The new Arcane archers should see some very impressive DPS with Manyshot IMO.


Infact, I was going to write a post about a problem I am starting to have.

I cannot use Manyshot in (some) raids right now. because it does too much DPS.
I am almost guranteed to pull agro if I turn on Manysot.

Not always...true. Some tanks really do tremendoes DPS and hold agro well.
But most do not do what I can do with Manyshot. And I'm not even an AA.
A few tweaks and I could do more DPS.
A different shroud bow and I could do more DPS.

But it is counterpreductive in raids. Because it pulls agro from where the group is depending on the agro being for the success of the raid.


we need a "subtle archery" enhancment IMO.

[Ninetoes]

It isn't complicated. Look at these two options, and figure out which one involves less total effort.

Option 1
Fix ranged combat for all characters, starting with baseline weapons (longbow, repeater, thrower).
Set the power of AA and DWS accordingly.

Sold. +1 for a solid explanation.