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  1. #1
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    Default Divine Metamagic

    After reading through another "why is turning useless" post, I figured I'd throw this idea out there.

    One of the famous ways a cleric could use turn attempts in a non-core-only campaign was by taking the Divine Metamagic feat. The most popular way to use it is coupling it with the Persistent Spell metamagic feat, which makes the spell last 24 hours.

    My suggestion is to give Divine Metamagic (Persist) to all clerics for free. Allow a cleric to expend Spell Level + 6 turns to persist a chosen spell until the next rest. I would expect the majority of players to use it for things like Prayer, which wouldn't really be imbalancing. Bards already grant much better bonuses essentially "all day" since the songs cannot be dispelled. These persisted spells would be subject to dispels as normal, however.

    What do you guys think? I can't think of any buffs in DDO that would imbalance things if this were possible.

    At least it'd give clerics another option for turn attempts besides DV's and Divine Might.

  2. #2
    Community Member Visty's Avatar
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    prayer wouldnt work cause persistant spell only works with self only spells like divine favor and divine might etc
    and those 2 will be most likeley the most used for it

    would like it though
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visty View Post
    prayer wouldnt work cause persistant spell only works with self only spells like divine favor and divine might etc
    and those 2 will be most likeley the most used for it

    would like it though
    Persistent Spell also works on fixed range spells. Prayer has a fixed range of 40 ft. So Prayer will work with Persistent Spell.

    I don't play DDO anymore, but Persistent Spell would be kinda cool. I don't think it'll be the amazing option it is in PnP though.

  4. #4
    Community Member FauxSho's Avatar
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    This is an interesting idea, but I forsee several gameplay breaking applications.

    Persistent Divine Power + Persistent Blade Barrier FT(Persistent)W

    Edit: Okay, probably would be made impossible explicitly or by requiring a high enough number of turns for the associated spell level, but it could be dangerously powerful. But then again, there are DP clicky junkies already.
    Last edited by FauxSho; 01-20-2010 at 06:38 PM.
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  5. #5
    Community Member Junts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    After reading through another "why is turning useless" post, I figured I'd throw this idea out there.

    One of the famous ways a cleric could use turn attempts in a non-core-only campaign was by taking the Divine Metamagic feat. The most popular way to use it is coupling it with the Persistent Spell metamagic feat, which makes the spell last 24 hours.

    My suggestion is to give Divine Metamagic (Persist) to all clerics for free. Allow a cleric to expend Spell Level + 6 turns to persist a chosen spell until the next rest. I would expect the majority of players to use it for things like Prayer, which wouldn't really be imbalancing. Bards already grant much better bonuses essentially "all day" since the songs cannot be dispelled. These persisted spells would be subject to dispels as normal, however.

    What do you guys think? I can't think of any buffs in DDO that would imbalance things if this were possible.

    At least it'd give clerics another option for turn attempts besides DV's and Divine Might.
    Only problem with this is that most clerics literally have no hope of having 15 turns per shrine to do level 9 spells with this if they even wanted to; my paladins at 28 charisma have 14 and 13 (one prc gives an extra turn). Without spending AP on them and/or a huge cha investment, there's just not much hope a cleric would ever have of being able to do more than perma-prayer or perma-recitation once by swapping equipment and/or using the +turn undead per rest items. that seems kind of silly, since limiting it to level 4 or down spells in effect would mean it'd only be used for 1-2 effects.

  6. #6
    Community Member bobbryan2's Avatar
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    I want a persistent blade barrier for VoD.


  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Junts View Post
    Only problem with this is that most clerics literally have no hope of having 15 turns per shrine to do level 9 spells with this if they even wanted to; my paladins at 28 charisma have 14 and 13 (one prc gives an extra turn). Without spending AP on them and/or a huge cha investment, there's just not much hope a cleric would ever have of being able to do more than perma-prayer or perma-recitation once by swapping equipment and/or using the +turn undead per rest items. that seems kind of silly, since limiting it to level 4 or down spells in effect would mean it'd only be used for 1-2 effects.
    You don't persist level 9 spells in PnP, either (unless your DM is a moron and lets you walk around with a Heward's Handy Haversack full of Nightsticks). Generally a cleric will persist divine power and righteous might on themself.

    Basically it's supposed to throw the clerics a small bone for their turn attempts that don't really ever get used, anyway. I don't mean for it to become some kind of massively powerful effect.

    It also gives clerics more of a reason to invest in charisma, at least a little bit.
    Last edited by Aspenor; 01-20-2010 at 06:41 PM.

  8. #8
    Community Member Visty's Avatar
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    hmmm persistant implosion.............

    *insert one of those hmmm-donuts homer pictures*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visty View Post
    hmmm persistant implosion.............

    *insert one of those hmmm-donuts homer pictures*
    For obvious reasons, Implosion would be exempt from being Persisted, as it is in PnP.

  10. #10
    Community Member bobbryan2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    For obvious reasons, Implosion would be exempt from being Persisted.
    Whatever!

    Persistent Implosion and Blade Barrier or no deal.

  11. #11
    Community Member Visty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    For obvious reasons, Implosion would be exempt from being Persisted, as it is in PnP.
    bah you suck :/

    would make turn at least useful again

    and the pnp version isnt a personal only buff, the ddo version is, so it should work
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  12. #12
    Community Member Falco_Easts's Avatar
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    Can it only be used for buffs or any spell? I am thinking of a line of Persisted Blade Barries for example and mobs just continously kited through them from various parts of the dungeon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falco_Easts View Post
    Can it only be used for buffs or any spell? I am thinking of a line of Persisted Blade Barries for example and mobs just continously kited through them from various parts of the dungeon.
    It doesn't work with Blade Barrier in PnP. Persistent Spell only works for personal (self only) or fixed range spells. Blade Barrier meets neither criteria in PnP. In DDO, it does seem to have a fixed range as far as I remember it, so it's a gray area.

  14. #14
    Community Member Mindspat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspenor View Post
    At least it'd give clerics another option for turn attempts besides DV's and Divine Might.
    Why do those who complain about a Cleric's Turn Attempts consistently overlook Divine Healing!?!

    Divine Healing III is a 30 second buff which heals 3d3 every 2 seconds. Healing Amplification applies to this although nothing else possesed by the Cleric will make this more effective.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindspat View Post
    Why do those who complain about a Cleric's Turn Attempts consistently overlook Divine Healing!?!

    Divine Healing III is a 30 second buff which heals 3d3 every 2 seconds. Healing Amplification applies to this although nothing else possesed by the Cleric will make this more effective.
    Probobly because that translates to a Max of 135 Hit points over 30 seconds.(More realisticly 70-80) Its simply not useful to anyone that is actually useful to a party end game.
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  16. #16
    Community Member bobbryan2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindspat View Post
    Why do those who complain about a Cleric's Turn Attempts consistently overlook Divine Healing!?!

    Divine Healing III is a 30 second buff which heals 3d3 every 2 seconds. Healing Amplification applies to this although nothing else possesed by the Cleric will make this more effective.

    Cuz it sucks?

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