Revise Dungeon Alert System

[bobbryan2]

Tolero, how do you explain the consistent problem with Bastion of Power, without summoned creatures. my last elite run, had at least 4 instances of going from no DA to Red DA in less than 15 seconds... yet another quest that has be a huge DA problem since day one...

They put grates in the floors... so everything above you can see you as you run across.

[DagazUlf]

Is this STILL happening on Lamannia? I'm particularly interested in East 3 behavior, as Coyle was one of those "NPC's the monsters think is a player" so just setting foot in the entrance of the quest automatically caused the waiting monsters to spaz into DA mode.

No offense T, but a lot of us have simply given-up on Lammy. We go through the available routes for bug-reporting, giving feedback, posting on these forums... and yet the things we report still make it to live or aren't even acknowledged.

I think you're going to have to hope that a lot of the new blood jumps on the Lammy wagon, because my experience is showing that the vets have had enough of that dog-and-pony show.

[bruha118]

Choice #1 FTW...get rid of it! the lag is still there... it didnt help

[NXPlasmid]

They put grates in the floors... so everything above you can see you as you run across.

you know, I dont think that was the case we had 2 instances on the first floor.

[DagazUlf]

you know, I dont think that was the case we had 2 instances on the first floor.

The floor of the 2nd floor is the ceiling of the 1st.

It's most decidedly the issue. I've seen it repeated numerous times.

[Redcoil]

I say get rid of it because I hate it and it's unnecessary.

In most quests in which people would zerg, it was because they were high enough lv and strong enough to pull it off.

I solo a lot. And so I normally do take it slow and kill everything. yet in Coal Chamber - anywhere in the vale actually - why is it I can have everything dead behind me - I didn't hang out for respawns - and I only have 3 mobs in the area, yet its DA Red? ***?

It's a bad idea that was unnecessarily implemented taking away resources and time from other possible ideas. Its not a 'solution' to a problem - there was no problem. Some quests should have multiple ways to be done. When Running with the Devils had a shortcut to the lever, because we didn't kill EVERY DANG MOB - they removed the mushrooms. Even though it took some people time and thought to find another way to do it.

I'm against the 'Do it our way or we MAKE you do it our way!'

[The_Phenx]

You can, but it requires a Bard, and also caster(s) with good Spell Pene + Quicken to do it easily. Without these it is very hard to impossible depending on the group. DA definitely needs major adjustments and improvements.

What quickened ottos? and just leave them?

They still contribute to DA even dancing. No they don't respawn at least. Seems the only way to do it is to roll thru and kill everything you can.

Have a few fantastic casters avail, thats not the issue.

[NXPlasmid]

The floor of the 2nd floor is the ceiling of the 1st.

It's most decidedly the issue. I've seen it repeated numerous times.

Well, that is very bad news if true, because it means that nothing is going to change on Bastion or Coal. According to Tolero the fix for DA has to do with NPC aggo, since that isn't the problem in these quests. great.

[Auran82]

Dear Players,

Please pay us a monthly subscription (or buy stuff from the store) and also do our testing.

Thanks,

Turbine.

[Galacticus]

regardless Of It's Intended Purpose Or Whether Or Not It Can Be Salvaged Into Something Useful; Dungeon Alert Is By Far The Worst Part Of This Game.

/signed

[Galacticus]

Again, we're not zergers, in fact, quite the opposite, more like flowersniffers, we just had decided not to go for ransack/conquest.

You just invented the title for the class of people who "DO NOT RUN THROUGH DUNGEONS"... Flowersniffers


Good job. Well done.

[Galacticus]

Is this STILL happening on Lamannia? I'm particularly interested in East 3 behavior, as Coyle was one of those "NPC's the monsters think is a player" so just setting foot in the entrance of the quest automatically caused the waiting monsters to spaz into DA mode.

Tarrant it's everywhere. The D.A.S. trigger is either too sensitive or the amount of monster spawn count that are aggroed is too low....

check Shadow King you can't go halfway down the hall way and you get skulled. The respawns do it you just standing around healing and buffing and all of a sudden SKULL.

COAL CHAMBER...the bat spawn rate is huge...the effect red skull...

Bastion...you get red skulled cause the mobs in the above level spotted you through the grating

There are more I will add as I remember...

I know what you folks are trying to do but the zerging continues on and the D.A.S. is turning the game into something else than I think you folks intended it to be...I want to fight the mobs not the dungeon.

[Galacticus]

I love it when you enter a quest and yuo're already at yellow alert, (Threnal E3). Great job on the implementation of DA Turbine, it really helped with the lag, I mean I just recently ran a shroud and the lag was really improved, NOT! One of the laggiest runs I've ever been on, how about instead of implementing crappy fixes to address lag that do nothing to reduce lag but do enrage the player base you actually look to the root cause of the lag problem or do nothing at all.

I would rather have lag and no dungeon alert than lag and dungeon alert.

/signed

[sirgog]

There are places where DA + Respawn just do not work.

My favorite example is Blood of the Vulkoorim Epic.

With the amount of HP those guys have coupled with the respawn rate it makes its **** near impossible to do without "cheating" (kiting and hopping on a few safe spots and firewalling).

Its scummy that that is one of the few tactics that make it possible, or your hindered and die.

This quest was designed for zerging fast attack rush rush rush... and now you cant.

Perhaps adjusting the respawn rate for epic would mitigate things.

This is one of the quests in the game that's made easier by having very high melee DPS - casters are better off Irresistable Dancing and/or Mass Suggesting (and nuking only on bosses, and even then only with persistant AOE spells like Firewall/Acid Fog/Incindiary Cloud). Melees pretty much need to be able to kill things fast.

I think Epic OOB is working as intended to be honest - if your group couldn't take down Arraetrikos in 1-1.75 passes on Normal (with just the 6 of you, not a full 12), you probably aren't up to beating that quest on epic.

The weaker groups I've been in have either wiped early (if far too weak) or have waited five minutes at the underwater shrine for DA to reset - the stronger groups have powered through it, killing (nearly) everything as we go.



Back on quests where DA isn't working - Bastion comes to mind (I hate that quest because of DA), and also Coalescence Chamber, they are the worst two. (I never run Coyle's chain so haven't seen that). Really, DA should be shut off in those three quests.

[ddoer]

Tarrant it's everywhere. The D.A.S. trigger is either too sensitive or the amount of monster spawn count that are aggroed is too low....

check Shadow King you can't go halfway down the hall way and you get skulled. The respawns do it you just standing around healing and buffing and all of a sudden SKULL.

COAL CHAMBER...the bat spawn rate is huge...the effect red skull...

Bastion...you get red skulled cause the mobs in the above level spotted you through the grating

There are more I will add as I remember...

I know what you folks are trying to do but the zerging continues on and the D.A.S. is turning the game into something else than I think you folks intended it to be...I want to fight the mobs not the dungeon.

I agree the DA is too sensitive. And coal and bastion come to my mind too.

For Bastion, even if we do it in the official way, i.e. to kill every mob and every portal, we'll still get alert! it is simply unreasonable. For quest with large map like coal chamber, if we run pass a mob without killing it, it should be reset in a shorter duration.

requiring us to play in a style to kill everything give melees an advantage. for casters, it is much harder to fight everything given the mana constraint.

While it is good to have the DA to avoid people abuse the lack of mobility/AI of mobs and pull a very large number of mobs, the alert system should tolerate some degrees of zerging, and should not affect any successful stealth run. for now in the live server, i believe, even if we are invisible and a mob doesn't know where i am (but it may sense there is something around), it is count in the DA. It's ok but for this case, the count should be reset shortly when the mob has no hope to find the inv guy.

[quickgrif]

I just don't understand why they don't just clean up the AI script? Why keep a mob sitting there and shooting a wall the whole quest?

[honkuimushi]

I don't have Lammania installed right now, but these are things I noticed on live. Several quests will go to green with a single spawn. Not, a huge problem, but if you've left anything alive or have the party split for some reason, (new entry, someone gets lost, splitting for tactical reasons, etc.) you often end up at yellow or higher.

Kobold Assualt generally starts at yellow and often goes to red after a few spawns.

Stormcleave will generally trigger green alerts at most camps. Aggroing 2 camps will take you to yellow or higher. I had a Rogue join us late and run the wrong direction. We were fighting the minos just past the gate and when he hit the scorpions across the pillar it went to yellow. When he tried to run away through the ogres, it went to red. We finished the minos up can ran back, but he was already dead. A couple of minotaurs left and 2 nearby enemy spawns equals red alert?

Catacombs 4 and 7. Even going through and smashing all sarcaphogi as we went, we ended up with yellow and red alerts in the rooms. In part 7, the waves would often trigger a green alert, though it's not so bad since the next wave doesn't spawn until the previous wave is killed.

Butchers path. Many of the spawns will trigger green alerts by themselves. Also, where groups are close together it seems like they join the fight much more often than before. That will often trigger a yellow. The chest ambush will always trigger a green if you have already cleared out the kobolds. If someone pops the chest while some of them are still alive, you're looking at a yellow. If not everyone is inside, like if someone's clearing the oozes at the shrine. it's a red. I don't pug Butcher's anymore. It's easier to solo, especially on elite. If I can't be sure that no one will charge off alone or trigger ambushes, DA makes solo the optimal party size.

In Archers Point I've been harried doing each camp one at a time, leaving nothing behind me.

These are mostly lower level because I've been spending a lot of my playing time starting a few characters on Cannith. They also stood out because I've done them a number of times and keep running into these issues. But it's not limited to these quests. It's pretty normal to get a green alert from a single spawn. That leaves you absolutely no leway and makes pugging an even more dangerous proposition. 1 guy getting lost can wipe the party. The sensativity needs to be cranked way down at the very least. As for bug reports, if I filed a bug report everytime this happened, I wouldn't have the time to actually do the quests.

[Tolero]

Tolero, how do you explain the consistent problem with Bastion of Power, without summoned creatures. my last elite run, had at least 4 instances of going from no DA to Red DA in less than 15 seconds... yet another quest that has be a huge DA problem since day one...

My general personal understanding of the quest mechanics in Bastion is that it may have a few monsters in it that are technically treated as "friendly" in the back end tech - basically things that are in the quest, but aren't trying to hurt you directly. "Friendly" things were causing the system to bork (I mean it could only be worse if it thought boxes and crates were on your side too in that sense). Sometimes "friendlies" are really obvious to you - things like Coyle and Hirelings. Other times, they're not.

It's kind of like Keeper's post about how sometimes what seems like a "landscape" to you is actually a "dungeon" with sky on the back side of things. If we had a problem that impacted "dungeons" you might think "but this is a landscape!"... no, it only looks like a landscape.

[Gratch]

Hmm... maybe this friends dont tell enemies will help, but the two worst DA offenders I've seen are due to:

Bastion... you have portals and spawn groups and multi-level decks. Sometimes going into one room, the room above/below you also sees you. Instant red.

Coal Chamber. After you get the first key during the fall down of the largest chamber to the first locked door a number of non-turretted bats spawn and by the time your group has fallen to the correct door to unlock... red alert and unkillable boss gnoll in the room. You're either forced to try and fall in sneak mode (which often doesn't help) or you have to kill things going down the top 3/4's of the large large central chamber (LAME).

BTW... you can feel free to keep DA in coal chamber as is if you change it so the first door in coal chamber is pickable by a skilled/equipped (but not necessarily mechanic) rogue. (I find it funny that you made the search DC's in inspired quarter traps so high that my rogue can't get them but my rogue-splash wizard can).

[Murgatroyd]

I had DA redskull me in WW2 (oh no not Arlos!) while I was running favor yesterday. I went to kill the batch of kobolds by the green lever, but those on the other side of the gate aggroed, which caused the warden and his buddies up top to aggro as well.

With a red skull on hard, the warden had at least a 40ac. I feel bad to lowbie groups to whom this happens to