Pale Master latest change

[Pyromaniac]

Its good to get the nerfs in before launch. That way we know not to create a lvl 20 palemaster with certain expectations, then get our characters nerfed substantially after we've invested time in them.

Good to know - Pale Master isn't on my list of characters to make now.

[Gum]

Bye Bye Palemaster

This PrE looks awful now. Come on devs, learn from your mistakes.

[Visty]

got another question for those who can test it:
wraith form says: and deal constitution damage on unarmed critical h

is that basicly wounding? could anyone test that? or has it a save?

[ddoer]

got another question for those who can test it:
wraith form says: and deal constitution damage on unarmed critical h

is that basicly wounding? could anyone test that? or has it a save?

does it matter? who will use unarmed attack? and attack until we get a crit hit? are you serious?

[asphodeli]

This might have been a good PrE to save some weird and/or gimped builds, but now its just not really worth it.

PS: And my character is still stuck in "The Heart of Wind". Maybe I should start calling the airship "Purgatory"?

[ZeroTakenaka]

I was thinking about taking the Pale Master PrE so I could have some fun with it... however the problem now is the Necrotic Touch IMHO... It needs to have no cost. The save? That's fine. However, not being able to use metamagics with it and a 3s cooldown makes it a 20-120 damage range at lvl 20. Low damage!
1.45 * 20-120 = 29-174 damage at with T3 PrE
with ToD stuff that's 29-174*2 = 58 - 348 dmg per cast...

Hmm... maybe its not. OH WELL

Possible Solutions
1. Ability to have 3 skellies summoned... what? You're undead. You control the dead... Margeurite can control like... 100 undead... or is that Archbishop?
2. Remove cost. Keep no metamagics. Keep lower timer.
3. Keep cost. Keep metamagics but have it cost 1/5 of normal so like Quicken at 10 SP would add 2 SP and HP cost. Keep lower timer.

[Visty]

does it matter? who will use unarmed attack? and attack until we get a crit hit? are you serious?

oh, its on a crit? bah, then it sucks, thought its on each hit :/

and yes, i was serious, but as it looks lich is the way to go still

[Raiderone]

Necrotic touch is no longer effected by any metamagic, as a test I ran into the searing heights, tried casting necrotic touch, noticed it wasn't quickened, toggled quicken, no difference in speed, turned off max/emp, and no difference in damage.

EDIT: There is a difference in damage when I take off my pale master set and potency items however, just thought that was worth mentioning. But this is a huge nerf to necrotic touch, it lost 300%(2.0X1.5, max and emp) of its offensive power, and gained a cost. Plus it no longer heals undead allies, I'm reconsidering the entire PrE now.

The PrE wasn't great before. Now it's just pitiful. Why nerf Necrotic Touch is beyond me? I guess they listened to the whiners that said "Oh! It's too Powerful"

Thanks! My decision is made. NO PRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rimble]

Edited: Other changes:

• Necrotic touch is no longer effected by any metamagic. See #17 and #27

Was interested in this PrE, figured I'd just avoid the undead forms, even with my 2 Monk splash (which I plan on getting into melee range some already) they seemed of dubious value, but this pretty much killed it for me.

[Paragon]

First off, if necrotic touch is being nerfed and given a cost, then it should work for healing via negative energy. Right now it cannot target any undead, including your minion and yourself.

Second, if the wraith and lich forms cost 30 sp to activate, why not drop the cooldown? What is the harm of people reactivating/switching form more often if it costs something to do? Many will probably allow the forms to expire in order to get healing anyway (unless they can self-heal with necrotic touch). In any case, you shouldn't need the silly cooldown if there is a cost to reactivate undead forms.

Finally, a more trivial point. The glowing eyes of the undead forms are not visible on my male human wizard unless he is moving. When he does, wraith eyes leave a nice trail but the lich eyes still only pop through his avatar to be visible very rarely. If there are cool fx, can't we make them work?

[rimble]

Are you willing to reduce your max mana by a good amount to be able to play with level 1-3 spells?

I think at this point I'd prefer endless free magic missiles, affected by enhancements/items/metamagics, than Necrotic Touch in this form.

[Dylos_Moon]

got another question for those who can test it:
wraith form says: and deal constitution damage on unarmed critical h

is that basicly wounding? could anyone test that? or has it a save?

As far as I can tell (from using ghoul touch first) its 2d4 con damage on crit. No save.

[dv8maker123]

Yay, it's now just another waste of Dev time and pretty much garbage. What exactly are the dev's thinking when they roll this stuff out. This PrE is weaker than a halfing's knees in a dragon's treasure pile.

[Myrdinn]

Wow, we needed to decrease our fire power to take up pale master prestige enh. This was kind of ok, lose some, get some, but now it is just not even worth it, lose a lot to gain little...

I had to remove all my acid/electric dmg/crit enhancement just to take up the pale master prestige WITHOUT ANY SKELETON even lose some crit enh. on my fire/ice spell.

So now, we lose all that to take up a spell that cannot do more than 120 dmg (fully buff...) in MELEE range WITHOUT being able to HEAL???? (Im sure you see the painting...)

If you call that balance, then I think all this work on the pale master will be for nothing, only a few will take it to be different from the others, but as effectiveness goes, there will be NO point in taking this enhancement...

I had doubt about going necro BEFORE the nerf, now it just seem a stupid idea...
Nerfing my dmg spell for this is not worth it.

[Angelus_dead]

It is clearly an implementation error that Necrotic Touch cannot heal undead. As already explained by the developers, the reason Necrotic Touch was nerfed in throughput and cost was to prevent it from being too powerful for self-healing. They would not have added a cost in hp and sp if it can't target allied undeads.

[noinfo]

A lot of the problem seems to be the lack of healing and a lot of talk about umd cleric scrolls, necro touch etc for self healing.

I am not particulary in favour of necro touch healing self anyway seems a bit cheap. To me the easiest solution is:

Make wizard equivalent to the cause wounds/harm spell types, call it heal/restore undead. Make it necromancy spells of same level, no healing living, no causing harm to living.

Easy, no more overpowered then wf and chews up a spell slot and spell points for healing. Very much doubt there would be a lot of coding needed.

[Visty]

As far as I can tell (from using ghoul touch first) its 2d4 con damage on crit. No save.

thx for checking it

[Raiderone]

Wow, we needed to decrease our fire power to take up pale master prestige enh. This was kind of ok, lose some, get some, but now it is just not even worth it, lose a lot to gain little...

I had to remove all my acid/electric dmg/crit enhancement just to take up the pale master prestige WITHOUT ANY SKELETON even lose some crit enh. on my fire/ice spell.

So now, we lose all that to take up a spell that cannot do more than 120 dmg (fully buff...) in MELEE range WITHOUT being able to HEAL???? (Im sure you see the painting...)

If you call that balance, then I think all this work on the pale master will be for nothing, only a few will take it to be different from the others, but as effectiveness goes, there will be NO point in taking this enhancement...

I had doubt about going necro BEFORE the nerf, now it just seem a stupid idea...
Nerfing my dmg spell for this is not worth it.

My thoughts exactly. It's like WOW! Garbage IN. Garbage OUT.
Totally Wasted PrE! So we get two PrE's this update and one was out already.
2nd one is now unuseable.

AP costs are way too high.
PrE I, II, III is 8AP for worthless 20 HP's, Neg Energy Damage boost but sorry no Real Spells to use and now a Nerf'd Necro Touch.
Summon Skel's I, II, III at a cost of 9AP (Should be FREE)
Undead Forms at 4AP (Should be FREE).

Oh Wait! We do get to Summon a Skelly for FREE! Harry here I come!

[Raiderone]

Just checked it out. Definitely nerf'd.

Went to Desert and this what Windlasher Packmaster had to Say!

(Say): Windlasher Packmaster says, "Arrrooo....Here comes Gimped PM by himself
cause no legit group will take him...Arrrooo Loossseerrr!

[Cyr]

It is clearly an implementation error that Necrotic Touch cannot heal undead. As already explained by the developers, the reason Necrotic Touch was nerfed in throughput and cost was to prevent it from being too powerful for self-healing. They would not have added a cost in hp and sp if it can't target allied undeads.

QFT. I don't even think the devs are that mentally defective that the current version on Lama is meant to be how it works. Touch got nerfed for the self healing ability as per Eladrin's post. I still think the PrE is mediocre with that assumption though.