Pale Master latest change

[ddoer]

i just have a chance to try pale master on the test server and I notice that it is not the same as what I have read in the Pale Master review thread. The following are quoted from the latest version of the game:

• Lich form
  

  You shroud yourself with negative energy and assume many traits of a lich. For three minutes, you gain +4 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma, +1 to the DC's of your necromantic spells, inflict wounds with your unarmed attacks, and occasionally gain temporary hit points when damaged. You have +100% critical hit resistance, are healed by negative energy, and are unaffected by positive energy or repair effects. You are considered undead rather than your original type of the purposes of most effects. This ability costs 30 spell points to activate.

• Wraith Form
  

  You shroud yourself with negative energy and assume many traits of a wraith. For three minutes, you gain 25% incorporeality (and ignore incorporeal miss chance), float as if affected by featherfall, have bonuses to move silently, and deal constitution damage on unarmed critical hits. You have +100% critical hit resistance, are healed by negative energy, and are unaffected by positive energy or repair effects. You are considered undead rather than your original type for the purposes of most effects. This ability costs 30 spell points to activate.

• Necrotic Touch
  

  You sheath your hand in crackling black flames, dealing 1d6 hit points of negative energy damage per caster level to a living creature. A successful Fortitude save reduces the damage by half. This ability costs 1 hit point and 1 spell point to use.

From my test:

1. Necrotic Touch has a 3s timer
2. In Lich and Wraith form, I could heal myself with Inflict Serious Wound scrolls. Inflict Serious Wound scrolls deal negative damage at 3d8 + 5 (caster level), as same as any scroll, it has a 6s timer. I did a random test to cast inflict on my wiz with wands and scroll mastery III (+45%) for 10 times, in 60s, it healed me for 165 HP. I can't find any harm scroll in the House J vendor.
3. +100% critical hit resistance means +100% fortification, i.e. my fortification will be 200% when I'm using a heavy fortification item and turn on the form, and when I drink a +Int Yugo pot (Essence of Cunning), the fortification will drop to 150%. And when the 3 mins Lich/Wraith form is over, the fortification will be dropped to 50%
4. In Lich form, I could target Inflict Moderate Wound, Mass on myself and cast, but it doesn't do anything. It is probably a bug.
5. In Wrath form, it adds +20 to move silently skill
6. The skeleton summoned from the free Pale Master I enhancement is CR3
7. Necrotic touch doesn't deal any damage against mobs with DW
8. If you have DW, you'll be immune to inflict wound spells, i.e. you cannot be healed. (tested with scroll only) You could receive DW before or after transformed to a Lich/Wrath

Edited: Other changes:

• Necrotic touch is no longer affected by any metamagic. See #17 and #27

Edited Suggestion threads related to the changes:

• Please fix Pale Master! Here are my suggestions
• Possible solution to make Necrotic Touch balanced

[hydra_ex]

Well that self healing is good news.

Too bad we loose 1 INT modifier and 1 Necromany DC in lich form (when compared to before), although that +1 UMD could be pretty helpful as well, and is some small recompense.

[Aesop]

I don't like the change to Necrotic Touch

I would rather have less damage than a cost... though I'm guessing that the cost is so they can have Metamagic Feats add to said cost.

[Talamare2k4]

Wraith seems kinda of weak by comparison

For Wizard Casters (not some hybrid melee monk build)
Lich gets
+40 hp (@20) - 5/5
+2 DC Necro spells 5/5
+1 DC to all spells 5/5
+1 UMD, +1 will saves 2/5
Inflict wound melee 1/5
Auto HP when dmg 3/5 (might be lower or higher depending on the chance

Wraith gets a
blur effect that probably wont stack with blur 1/5 (5/5 if it does stack)
ghost touch, feather fall, +20 move silent 2/5
crit con damage 1/5

[wiglin]

hmm so much potential and we have this? Can you self heal with necrotic touch?

[ddoer]

hmm so much potential and we have this? Can you self heal with necrotic touch?

no. and not with chill touch as well. it is by design. if harm scrolls is available, I won't use necrotic touch to heal myself as it is so weak.

[Khellendros13]

Awesome job, nerf the Necro DC and Necrotic touch in Lich form...but add self healing from scrolls, the best of which is not available to buy yet.

"living target" does that mean you cannot heal your summons now?

[ddoer]

Awesome job, nerf the Necro DC and Necrotic touch in Lich form...but add self healing from scrolls, the best of which is not available to buy yet.

"living target" does that mean you cannot heal your summons now?

mass inflict moderate scrolls may deal more neg damage (3d8+5 vs 2d8+11), but the mass version doesn't work yet. I've updated the info in the OP.

yes, I can't heal my CR3 skeleton with Necrotic touch. I personally don't care about this as I won't use the pet anyway. The mass version of inflict scroll does work on a summoned skel.

[Catholicon]

CR3? So only useful around Korthos, then?

[orakio]

Are the spellpoint costs to Lich form and Wraith form new? The ability to self use inflict scrolls is nice, but with cost to necrotic touch and (new?) cost of the forms the PrE is slowly getting less and less appealing.

[Talamare2k4]

I pretty much expected for necro touch to have this kinda of minor payment

[Dylos_Moon]

I like being able to go undead in a public instance.
I like being able to target myself with inflict light scrolls, and receive hit points from it.
I don't like the change to necrotic touch.
I don't like the change to lich form - why was this necessary to nerf if we can't stay in it for more then 3 minutes at a time?

[LunaCee]

Wait... do meta magic costs now apply to the touch?

I'm going to seriously be irked if they do. Absolutely *not* worth getting into melee range if so. And for forms also costing SP. *sighs* Alright so everything we have from this PrE costs spell points (and maybe hitpoints too!). Every last piece of it. Oh and from the sounds of it one cannot necro touch an ally wizard who is also in form. Or even the skeleton pet. Guess they expect you to just blow through your SP summoning replacements at breakneck speed.

In short this now fails to deliver. No point spending that many AP on this PrE.

[Dylos_Moon]

Wait... do meta magic costs now apply to the touch?

I'm going to seriously be irked if they do. Absolutely *not* worth getting into melee range if so. And for forms also costing SP. *sighs* Alright so everything we have from this PrE costs spell points (and maybe hitpoints too!). Every last piece of it. Oh and from the sounds of it one cannot necro touch an ally wizard who is also in form. Or even the skeleton pet. Guess they expect you to just blow through your SP summoning replacements at breakneck speed.

In short this now fails to deliver. No point spending that many AP on this PrE.

The forms costed SP before, as did the pets.

[Talamare2k4]

1 hp/sp for 1d6/level damage is a fair cost imo

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I don't like the change to Necrotic Touch

I would rather have less damage than a cost... though I'm guessing that the cost is so they can have Metamagic Feats add to said cost.

I think its there to stop unlimited self healing and healing of friendly undead

[Dylos_Moon]

Necrotic touch is no longer effected by any metamagic, as a test I ran into the searing heights, tried casting necrotic touch, noticed it wasn't quickened, toggled quicken, no difference in speed, turned off max/emp, and no difference in damage.

EDIT: There is a difference in damage when I take off my pale master set and potency items however, just thought that was worth mentioning. But this is a huge nerf to necrotic touch, it lost 300%(2.0X1.5, max and emp) of its offensive power, and gained a cost. Plus it no longer heals undead allies, I'm reconsidering the entire PrE now.

[Talamare2k4]

300%(2.0X1.5, max and emp) of its offensive power, and gained a cost. Plus it no longer heals undead allies, I'm reconsidering the entire PrE now.

Pretty sure it doesnt stack that way and max = 200%, emp = 150% so it either lost 350% or 250%

It will do 1d6 * 20 = 20-120 damage for 1 hp/sp - good for max dps? no... good for sustained dps? yes

[Dylos_Moon]

Pretty sure it doesnt stack that way and max = 200%, emp = 150% so it either lost 350% or 250%

It will do 1d6 * 20 = 20-120 damage for 1 hp/sp - good for max dps? no... good for sustained dps? yes

metas, like everything else for spells, multiply afaik, and 1.5*2.0=3.0
Regardless however its still a loss.

and I couldn't hit over 120 without my pale master ring on, just saying (and when i did, it was a bigger number, making me think it was a crit, I mean font size bigger, however it was also the killing blow in every case, during my testing I never got a message in my log saying I crit though.)

[bobbryan2]

metas, like everything else for spells, multiply afaik, and 1.5*2.0=3.0
Regardless however its still a loss.

and I couldn't hit over 120 without my pale master ring on, just saying (and when i did, it was a bigger number, making me think it was a crit, I mean font size bigger, however it was also the killing blow in every case, during my testing I never got a message in my log saying I crit though.)

Metas are additive.

1 + 15 + 25 = 41

But they don't work..

EDIT: Sorry, you were talking about damage, not cost. But regardless, they're still additive. 1 + 1 + .5 = 2.5x