A Moral Grey Gone Black?

[MyfSeran]

I consider myself to still be a new player to DDO, having only been on since the latter half of September. So there are many quests I've yet to do. There's still much about the cultures and politics of In Character Eberron that I'm learning.

I have a low level Paladin that I'm working on leveling to get ready to play with the larger members of my Guild and came across the quest that Silver Flame Inquisitor Gnomon gives out in House Phairlan, Purge the Heretics. There are a lot of moral implications to that quest that have no real consequences for your character. Your alignment doesn't change for being willing to massacre innocents. If anything, you're rewarded for it, as you get more XP for killing everything you come across, even halflings and elves without weapons in their hands.

This presents me with something of a conundrum. There are no other options other than Do the quest or Don't. There's no reward whatsoever for taking the moral high ground and telling the Zealot Gnomon where to stick his 'if they don't serve the Flame they all need to die' attitude.

So I either go from being a Role Player, someone who's developing personality, morals, flaws and strengths for my characters to being a Roll Player, only interested in MadFatLootz and Teh XPz, or I just don't do the quest and have that glaring slash of white in my Adventure Compendium.

There's plenty of other things for me to do, it's true. I don't require this quest to advance to any other content on the game, or in the level of my character. It's not the XP or loot that I'll be missing out on, that I'm even concerned about. It's the moral implications of the quest itself. On at least Sarlona we're not allowed to have Evil characters of any flavour, so why are we asked to do evil things and then not rewarded for making the good choice? Why aren't there consequences for choosing to do the quest if you aren't also of the Silver Flame? And what if you are Silver Flame, what does this quest mean for you beyond loot and XP?

So, finally I'll get to my over all point, since I've beaten ya'll over the heads with this already. My suggestion here is, if you're going to have us choose alignments at character generation, give us some choices that mean something to that alignment, to that religion. A Paladin of the Sovereign Host isn't going to go around slaughtering people of his own faith just because they irritate some Cleric of the Silver Flame with a stick up his bum. Lawful Good doesn't have to mean Lawful Stupid, and just because this is a game with graphics doesn't mean that it has to be devoid of far reaching choices, with social and moral implications. I'm challenging the developers to make this a game with deeper meaning, not just loot and XP and quests to grind through and milestones and favour to gather.

So far I'm liking the game, that's why I've gone from Free Player to VIP. But I want more. I want Substance.

[adamkatt]

Solution.. Save the rollplaying for the bedroom!

[Devonian]

MyfSeran, I agree completely. Purge the heretics as a quest kills my suspension of disbelief completely every time, as it pulls me out of my days as a hero for hire and puts me back into a reward chasing gamer.

It is the worst quest in the game and frankly after running it, I don't even much like talking to the flamites.

[Magnyr_Delorn]

But I want more. I want Substance.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. This *IS* substance. You are asked to perform a Lawful Neutral/Evil task. This isn't slaughtering some evil hobgoblins, you are being asked to make a judgment call that challenges your ethos. While I would agree it would be nice to be able to complete the quest in an alternative fashion, I really like the moral battle.

[Hokiewa]

While I get your "meaning", make a role-playing choice.....Don't do the quest if your holding to your LG beliefs....Seriously, if your a die-hard RP'r you would never enter it....

Most MMOs are never going to give you a plethora of choices regarding morality, that's typically a feature of single player RPGs....

Though, again, it's your choice to run it as an rp'r.....

MyfSeran, I agree completely. Purge the heretics as a quest kills my suspension of disbelief completely every time, as it pulls me out of my days as a hero for hire and puts me back into a reward chasing gamer.

It is the worst quest in the game and frankly after running it, I don't even much like talking to the flamites.

Ridiculous on so many levels. Suspension of disbelief......That you could carry 2200 lbs of equipment.....that you could carry 500 pots....That you could commint genocide in several "level areas"...ie...kobolds, hobbies, giants, etc.....hired hero indeed......come on.....Though I'd love to be able to pick pockets of all the "pious" players wandering around......

As far as the worst quest in the game......Beyond absurd........

[Lorien_the_First_One]

The original Palis, the "Crusaders" slaughtered innocents because they didn't think they followed their god. Modern muslim terrorists also believe they are LG and serving god by killing innocents. This quest echos that type of thinking that is nothing new to religious extremism.

[EyeHunter]

My main character fought in the last war as a Barbarian for Cyre. When Cyre was destroyed, the Sovereign Host (a NG group) took him in, and he started to learn the ways of a cleric. The Silver Flame (being LG) turns away Barbarians. So when I learned of this quest, I activated my rage, and swung at him for an hour.

However, I needed the favor, so I did the quest, and said to myself, "this doesn't count."

I'm very much opposed to this quest.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

My main character fought in the last war as a Barbarian for Cyre. When Cyre was destroyed, the Sovereign Host (a NG group) took him in, and he started to learn the ways of a cleric. The Silver Flame (being LG) turns away Barbarians. So when I learned of this quest, I activated my rage, and swung at him for an hour.

However, I needed the favor, so I did the quest, and said to myself, "this doesn't count."

I'm very much opposed to this quest.

So don't run it. There is plenty of xp and favor in the game. You don't even need it to get house P 150.

There are only 3 quests in the game where you kill something with a good alignment, deal with it or skip them.

[Tobril]

More importantly, I think it's fun to see if I can get them all to chase me and play "bowling" with them via cometfall...STRIKE!!!

[EyeHunter]

So don't run it. There is plenty of xp and favor in the game. You don't even need it to get house P 150.

There are only 3 quests in the game where you kill something with a good alignment, deal with it or skip them.

It was the easiest way. I just turned off the RP "switch" in my head. So, Yes, I dealt with it, but I thought it was quite awful.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Hey! I just went in there to try to talk some sense into those guys...

They attacked me!

From then on it was all self defense and just trying to find a way out of there!

[PurdueDave]

Solution.. Save the rollplaying for the bedroom!

I try and leave the dice out of that sack.

"what are you doing?!"

"rolling my endurance check."

[Alyiakal]

I'd have to agree with you MyfSeran. I simply cannot bring myself to run this quest on my Paladin (which, if I did, any logical DM would quickly make a fallen Paladin). The quest feels problematic to me for a few reasons.

1) You're killing good aligned creatures. Heck, the quest log actually says you are "slaughtering commoners" and "killing preachers" for the simple reason that a certain Silver Flame Inquisitor feels like you should. This is a blatantly evil act in a game where you cannot play an evil-aligned character.

2) The enemies you are killing are members of a player available faith. Not to mention that it is one of the more popular faiths due to it's clicky ability. I mean, it makes sense that you're going after evil worshipers of Vol, or fighting against cults to the Dark Six. But this is the Sovereign Host, which is the major good-aligned pantheon in Eberron.

They should at least give a dialogue option for us to tell the Inquisitor to shove it, or tell him off, or at least express our displeasure (since they obviously can't let us smite him).

[Dragonhyde]

That quest would make more sense if they would tie it into the cult quest with the original vampire boss in it(can't think of the correct quest name atm) but I agree I just never ran it on my palidans now my TN mages on the other hand.....

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It was the easiest way. I just turned off the RP "switch" in my head. So, Yes, I dealt with it, but I thought it was quite awful.

I could also point out that killing them was an OPTIONAL. If you had used some skill and care you don't have to kill a single one of the LG commoners. That means it is your fault that innocents died.

[EyeHunter]

I could also point out that killing them was an OPTIONAL. If you had used some skill and care you don't have to kill a single one of the LG commoners. That means it is your fault that innocents died.

You did have to kill the Cleric and Paladin.

[SolarDawning]

So don't run it. There is plenty of xp and favor in the game. You don't even need it to get house P 150.

There are only 3 quests in the game where you kill something with a good alignment, deal with it or skip them.

Which ones are you thinking of? I come up with four.
Purge the Heritics
Ghosts of Perdition (The endboss, Ctholthuzz, is Lawful Good)
Litany of the Dead (same as above, plus Mentau, who is Chaotic Good)
Running with Devils

The undead beholder, Ctholthuzz, is forced into working for the Black Abbot by an agreement he made- he's honor bound to keep to it.
Mentau is chaotic good, but the Black Abbot's cultists kidnapped his daughter to coerce him into making a golem army for them.

[MysteryNotes]

I consider myself to still be a new player to DDO, having only been on since the latter half of September. So there are many quests I've yet to do. There's still much about the cultures and politics of In Character Eberron that I'm learning.

I have a low level Paladin that I'm working on leveling to get ready to play with the larger members of my Guild and came across the quest that Silver Flame Inquisitor Gnomon gives out in House Phairlan, Purge the Heretics. There are a lot of moral implications to that quest that have no real consequences for your character. Your alignment doesn't change for being willing to massacre innocents. If anything, you're rewarded for it, as you get more XP for killing everything you come across, even halflings and elves without weapons in their hands.

This presents me with something of a conundrum. There are no other options other than Do the quest or Don't. There's no reward whatsoever for taking the moral high ground and telling the Zealot Gnomon where to stick his 'if they don't serve the Flame they all need to die' attitude.

So I either go from being a Role Player, someone who's developing personality, morals, flaws and strengths for my characters to being a Roll Player, only interested in MadFatLootz and Teh XPz, or I just don't do the quest and have that glaring slash of white in my Adventure Compendium.

There's plenty of other things for me to do, it's true. I don't require this quest to advance to any other content on the game, or in the level of my character. It's not the XP or loot that I'll be missing out on, that I'm even concerned about. It's the moral implications of the quest itself. On at least Sarlona we're not allowed to have Evil characters of any flavour, so why are we asked to do evil things and then not rewarded for making the good choice? Why aren't there consequences for choosing to do the quest if you aren't also of the Silver Flame? And what if you are Silver Flame, what does this quest mean for you beyond loot and XP?

So, finally I'll get to my over all point, since I've beaten ya'll over the heads with this already. My suggestion here is, if you're going to have us choose alignments at character generation, give us some choices that mean something to that alignment, to that religion. A Paladin of the Sovereign Host isn't going to go around slaughtering people of his own faith just because they irritate some Cleric of the Silver Flame with a stick up his bum. Lawful Good doesn't have to mean Lawful Stupid, and just because this is a game with graphics doesn't mean that it has to be devoid of far reaching choices, with social and moral implications. I'm challenging the developers to make this a game with deeper meaning, not just loot and XP and quests to grind through and milestones and favour to gather.

So far I'm liking the game, that's why I've gone from Free Player to VIP. But I want more. I want Substance.

I felt bad after doing that quest..even though this is a game..
It gets me thinking. Why should i kill other people just because they believe in a different god?

[Letrii]

Just realize you're not really a paladin, but a grey guard.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

You did have to kill the Cleric and Paladin.

But you have reason to believe these two are leading people into darkness, that makes them a force for evil, even if they believe they are doing the right thing.

Which ones are you thinking of? I come up with four.
Purge the Heritics
Ghosts of Perdition (The endboss, Ctholthuzz, is Lawful Good)
Litany of the Dead (same as above, plus Mentau, who is Chaotic Good)
Running with Devils

The undead beholder, Ctholthuzz, is forced into working for the Black Abbot by an agreement he made- he's honor bound to keep to it.
Mentau is chaotic good, but the Black Abbot's cultists kidnapped his daughter to coerce him into making a golem army for them.

I didn't count ghosts because you don't kill him there, nor was that your intention. You are going to gain his help, then he attacks you, you defend yourself, and then he says he will join you.