Is Frenzy really needed?

[Ggcpres]

I just got my Barbarian up to level 7 and i'm wondering if the extra damage that frenzy would generate is worth it at this level or any others. while i realize that as a dps class we should be all about bashen things hard but i'm not sure the extra damage is worth putting extra pressure on the healer or dying all the faster.

at level 7 i have 22 str and generally hit for around 30 dmg normally and around 100 when i crit.

[Freeman]

It is worth it. However, you just have to be a little more selective as to when you activate it.

[Shade]

The basic frenzy is situational, as the pro's and con are pretty balanced overall. I mean you would always use it for any tough bosses when you have a solid healer around, but for general questing vs trash, you'd not use it too much.

At lvl18 you get death frenzy, which is a different story. The pros if it FAR outweigh the cons, so imo you should use it 100% of the time.

[Asketes]

with frenzy and death frenzy your weapon gets an extra 2 to the critical multiplier when you roll a 19 or 20.

so if you use great axes, when you crit you'll have a x5 multiplier

plus the 4d6 extra damage per hit.


end game when you are hitting yourself for 2d3 extra damage AND getting hit for 150+ damage by mobs, the little bitty vicious damage won't even be noticed by any half decent healer. (the faster they die, the less healing you need)

[malicia]

I just got my Barbarian up to level 7 and i'm wondering if the extra damage that frenzy would generate is worth it at this level or any others. while i realize that as a dps class we should be all about bashen things hard but i'm not sure the extra damage is worth putting extra pressure on the healer or dying all the faster.

at level 7 i have 22 str and generally hit for around 30 dmg normally and around 100 when i crit.

When you are rockin 800+ hitpoints a little vicious damage gonna be the least of your problems =)

[captain1z]

my barb still has critical rage. o.o

[Shade]

with frenzy and death frenzy your weapon gets an extra 2 to the critical multiplier when you roll a 19 or 20.

so if you use great axes, when you crit you'll have a x5 multiplier

plus the 4d6 extra damage per hit.

Incorrect.
Frenzy = 2d6 dmg, +2 str, no multiplier increase. (Greataxe = x3)
Death Frenzy = 4d6 dmg, +4 str, +1 multiplier increase (Greataxe = x4 while active)
Berserker II = +1 multiplier while raged (Greataxe = x4 while active)
Berserker III = +1 additional multiplier while raged (Greataxe = x5 while active)
Combining rage and death frenzy results in an X6 mulitplier with a Greataxe.

[Asketes]

Incorrect.
Frenzy = 2d6 dmg, +2 str, no multiplier increase. (Greataxe = x3)
Death Frenzy = 4d6 dmg, +4 str, +1 multiplier increase (Greataxe = x4 while active)
Berserker II = +1 multiplier while raged (Greataxe = x4 while active)
Berserker III = +1 additional multiplier while raged (Greataxe = x5 while active)
Combining rage and death frenzy results in an X6 mulitplier with a Greataxe.

ohhhhh rightly said. I was tired and forgot about that.

thanks shade

[Visty]

my barb still has critical rage. o.o

and as such lower dps

[Fattiest]

lets just say at lev 18 i had a crit of 495(yellow) in VOD on sully last night, using a holy acid burst greensteel,,,,,not the full min II(just the first two tiers). Im sure it will get higher with better gear and more levs also.

Would i run around with it on at all times? NO,NO,NO. but when i know i need to hold aggro or there will be mass healing going on i will use it for sure.

I rarely used it b4 lev 10.

[DragonMageT]

At level 7, I would not worry about FB yet but you should have it at higher levels, it's so worth it.

I am going through this again on my Barb (second TR) and I will be selecting the feats like this:
1st Toughness, 3rd TWF, 6th ITWF, 9th GTWF, 12th PA, 15th Cleave at which point I can reset my points
and then start taking FB I, II, and then later FB3 most likely around 17 or 18 because of action points needed.

A pure Barb lvl 20 with minII GreatAxe FB3 you will see first number crits over 500, without FB3 around 300 assuming
minor buffs and mid-30 Str.

Power Attack at lower levels just sucks, you miss on so many hits. I don't really start using PA until 12 or greater.

I also think you don't want to be using Frenzy at low levels below 12 because of the 1-3 damage and lower hit points,
Boss, mobs, or otherwise, that 1-3 self inflicted damage adds up quickly especially if your TWF.

[farash]

use it and use it often. it is an enormous increase to your damage, and as long as you have a healer who isn't bad at his job, they will take care of you. do not use it when you are soloing and in a situation where you need to manage your hit points. just be mindful of your health, if you are at 50 hp and tanking the boss, don't choose that particular second to activate death frenzy, wait till you get a full heal.

[Xaearth]

Power Attack at lower levels just sucks, you miss on so many hits. I don't really start using PA until 12 or greater.

I also think you don't want to be using Frenzy at low levels below 12 because of the 1-3 damage and lower hit points,
Boss, mobs, or otherwise, that 1-3 self inflicted damage adds up quickly especially if your TWF.

If your barb is missing that often at low levels with PA on, you're doing something wrong.

As far as using Frenzy at low levels, I find it often means the difference between getting hit by a mob or killing it before it gets a chance to swing. In those cases, you're taking less damage with Frenzy on, so it's worth it.

[DragonMageT]

If your barb is missing that often at low levels with PA on, you're doing something wrong.

As far as using Frenzy at low levels, I find it often means the difference between getting hit by a mob or killing it before it gets a chance to swing. In those cases, you're taking less damage with Frenzy on, so it's worth it.

You are way off base. Let's see PA is -5 to hit. You could take it at level 3 or 6 and I would say a -5 to hit is a big difference. I guess if you only running solo or norm quest it won't be that big of deal.
When you start running Elite you will notice the difference. Maybe you should try running a low level Barb with PA on in an elite quest and then tell me it doesn't make a difference.

My Barbs are setup just fine.

Really, 2d6 makes the difference so that you can one hit kill a mob (which implies more that 1) or a single monster.
Again you must be running quest on solo or norm. You're a Barbarian, you are going to get hit, you will take damage.
At low levels you put extra stress on your healers by using FB. Higher levels, I agree, use as you wish.

[Xaearth]

You are way off base. Let's see PA is -5 to hit. You could take it at level 3 or 6 and I would say a -5 to hit is a big difference. I guess if you only running solo or norm quest it won't be that big of deal.
When you start running Elite you will notice the difference. Maybe you should try running a low level Barb with PA on in an elite quest and then tell me it doesn't make a difference.

My WF barb has been running with a -6 PA since level 5, on normal, hard, and elite.
Occasionally I turn it off for bosses or high AC mobs on hard/elite. You know you can do that, right?
Heroism pot (or aid clicky for +1 instead of +2), rage pot, haste pot, anger's set, insight goggles... if you're having trouble hitting with power attack with all of those options available, like I said, you're doing something wrong.

Edit: And now that I reread your original post, I see what that is... TWF on a barb.

Really, 2d6 makes the difference so that you can one hit kill a mob (which implies more that 1) or a single monster.
Again you must be running quest on solo or norm. You're a Barbarian, you are going to get hit, you will take damage.
At low levels you put extra stress on your healers by using FB. Higher levels, I agree, use as you wish.

Actually I was more referring to 2-3 hitting the mob... maybe it's just me, but AI response time sucks at low levels.
And regardless of whether you're actually killing them before they hit you or not, you're going to kill faster which will directly translate into less damage taken.

Edit: And the TWF also explains why you're so flabbergasted at quick kills against mobs on higher difficulty settings I suppose.

[DragonMageT]

My WF barb has been running with a -6 PA since level 5, on normal, hard, and elite.
Occasionally I turn it off for bosses or high AC mobs on hard/elite. You know you can do that, right?
Heroism pot (or aid clicky for +1 instead of +2), rage pot, haste pot, anger's set, insight goggles... if you're having trouble hitting with power attack with all of those options available, like I said, you're doing something wrong.

Edit: And now that I reread your original post, I see what that is... TWF on a barb.



Actually I was more referring to 2-3 hitting the mob... maybe it's just me, but AI response time sucks at low levels.
And regardless of whether you're actually killing them before they hit you or not, you're going to kill faster which will directly translate into less damage taken.

Edit: And the TWF also explains why you're so flabbergasted at quick kills against mobs on higher difficulty settings I suppose.

No everyone has all the pots that you are talking about drinking just to overcome the PA penalty and they don't last very long. Heroism, rage, haste, and you forgot bull's strength. Unless you have a lot of plat. it will get
very expensive drinking all those potions.

I think the debate over TWF vs THF has been beaten to death and TWF wins in my book.
By the way, I have both 20th Lvl THF Barb and working on my second TR TWF Barb.

You just being a smartass with the PA on/off comment.

Back to the original question posted, Frenzy and Death Frenzy are worth it.
Just select the Feats and APs to get FB3 later in the game. There is a substantial DPS difference with
Frenzy and Death Frenzy activated.

[Eradiator]

with frenzy and death frenzy your weapon gets an extra 2 to the critical multiplier when you roll a 19 or 20.

so if you use great axes, when you crit you'll have a x5 multiplier

plus the 4d6 extra damage per hit.


end game when you are hitting yourself for 2d3 extra damage AND getting hit for 150+ damage by mobs, the little bitty vicious damage won't even be noticed by any half decent healer. (the faster they die, the less healing you need)

**** thats good

[SquelchHU]

No everyone has all the pots that you are talking about drinking just to overcome the PA penalty and they don't last very long. Heroism, rage, haste, and you forgot bull's strength. Unless you have a lot of plat. it will get
very expensive drinking all those potions.

I think the debate over TWF vs THF has been beaten to death and TWF wins in my book.
By the way, I have both 20th Lvl THF Barb and working on my second TR TWF Barb.

You just being a smartass with the PA on/off comment.

Back to the original question posted, Frenzy and Death Frenzy are worth it.
Just select the Feats and APs to get FB3 later in the game. There is a substantial DPS difference with
Frenzy and Death Frenzy activated.

Rage: Available as a 1/rest clickie on a level 1 item, easily farmed for as it has a ~50% drop rate. Get about six and you should rarely need a potion.

Bull's Strength: Available as a 30 minute buff from House P, cost is the same as a single 3 minute potion.

Heroism and Haste I will grant you, but that only puts you +2 to hit behind someone just using an aid clickie from Korthos.

To hit is not a problem with a Barbarian. Maybe once you're PAing for 11 it is if you don't have some nice gear on, but at low levels? Nah. Korthos alone is worth +5 to hit.

[Bosco]

yes

[A_Sheep]

I am going through this again on my Barb (second TR) and I will be selecting the feats like this:
1st Toughness, 3rd TWF, 6th ITWF, 9th GTWF, 12th PA, 15th Cleave at which point I can reset my points
and then start taking FB I, II, and then later FB3 most likely around 17 or 18 because of action points needed.

Good luck taking GTWF at 9 and FB3 at 17!