12Fi/6Pa/2Ro Feedback Please

[Bulah]

Hi guys and gals. Working on a tanking build for a friend and this is my first go at it and wanted some feedback from the vets that have seen everything and know what works and what doesn't for endgame. He wants a toon that can tank very well, saves exceptionally well and can help clear the trash when not acting as a meatshield. Let me know if I'm on the right track or if I need to completely rethink it. Thanks in advance for your time.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 404
Spell Points: 45 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 25
Reflex: 21
Will: 19

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    22
Dexterity            12                    16
Constitution         16                    21
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             14                    18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    20
Bluff                 3                     5
Concentration         3                     5
Diplomacy             2                     4
Disable Device        5                     6
Haggle                6                     8
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  1                     3
Intimidate            6                    33
Jump                  6                    18
Listen                3                     4
Move Silently         1                     3
Open Lock             5                     7
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                3                     4
Spot                  3                    11
Swim                  2                     6
Tumble                2                     4
Use Magic Device      6                    30

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Lightning Reflexes
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: CON


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Iron Will


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip
Feat: (Selected) Luck of Heroes


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I

Oh and he has access to greensteel and is pretty rich plat wise so if you have gear recommendations please add them as well.

[Bulah]

Still patiently waiting.......

[krud]

Same build that my TR is going to be.

- You have too many save related feats. With your pally cha bonus to saves you will not need them.

- no shield bash. It barely helps what is already terrible dps from shield bash. If you really must attack when turtling, cleave/GC are a better option (though still not great dps).

- You really should pick up more dps feats; power attack, weapon specialization, and gr weapon spec. You are a fighter afterall, and will be expected to hit things many times.

- start with str of 16 and put all your level ups into strength. You can drop con by 1 in order to do so. you'll still have plenty of hp.

- for THF I'd recommend 16str, 12 dex, 15con, 12int, 8wis, 14cha

- the tier 1 paladin prestige enahncements aren't all that great. Drop them if AP are tight. Get paladin bulwark of good 1 instead.

- added* get a few more points into tumble and practice tumbling. You'll move painfully slow whenever in the defender stance. You move much faster when tumbling. It helps when you gotta catch up to something in order to aggro or regain aggro. Also, in some high end raids it's needed to tumble out of chains when tanking.


I played a THF version of this up to level 8 to see what he would be like before actually TRing my other toon into this build. I ran him untwinked the whole time, just using vanilla greatswords and full plate. He is a very good self-sufficient build. He should have end game worthy intimidate and AC without a huge grind for items and loot. Good dps whenever intim is not needed.

Here's my build. Just use the stats listed above, and substitute THF feats for the TWF feats. Tweak the rest to suit your needs.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page
NeatoHombrTR 
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 354
Spell Points: 10 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 21
Reflex: 18
Will: 15
Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    26
Dexterity            15                    18
Constitution         14                    17
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    16
Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
 
Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    22
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         3                     4
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     3
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     4
Intimidate            2                    41
Jump                  7                    13
Listen                1                     1
Move Silently         2                     4
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                1                     2
Spot                  1                     1
Swim                  5                    10
Tumble                6                    14
Use Magic Device      6                    26
 
Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
Feat: (Human Bonus) Force of Personality
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
 
Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
 
Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
 
Level 4 (Paladin)
 
Level 5 (Paladin)
 
Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
 
Level 7 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
 
Level 8 (Fighter)
 
Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
 
Level 10 (Rogue)
 
Level 11 (Fighter)
 
Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
 
Level 13 (Fighter)
 
Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
 
Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
 
Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
 
Level 17 (Fighter)
 
Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
 
Level 19 (Paladin)
 
Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate III
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I

[Runaway]

I was looking at a 12fighter/6paladin/rogue2 multibuild last week as well. I decided against rolling it because I don't have the gear (nor the will/patience to acquire it ).

What looked best to me for enhancements was:
Defender of Syberis I (the tank)
Kensai II (the damage)
Fighter Tower Shield Mastery III
Fighter Armor Mastery II
The usual.

That would have given me a maximum dexterity bonus of 6 with both normal tower shields and normal chain shirts. Max dex bonus of 8 if they were mithral.

As race I was considering either elf, warforged or human.

Weapons for tanking mode would have been khopesh for human and warforge, scimitar for elf.
Weapons for dps mode would have been 2 scimitars for elf, falchion for warforge and either falchion or 2 kopeshes for a human.

I was most inclined to making it a warforged.

Special feats that I considered were stunning blow, cleave and great cleave: Dps feats that would work both with 2h and 1h+shield and these looked ideal to me for "clearing trash"

[krud]

gear recommendations:

AC:
untwinked - fullplate, large shield
twink - +5mithbreastplate or Breastplate of destruction (hound raid), +5 mith tower shield or Leviks defender (hound raid), chaosguarde (AH or xorian cipher),

Weapons:
untwinked - whatever can you find/buy. vanilla works ok. Holy or Elemental/pure good for undead. Parrying one-hander for high AC turtletanking. Any 1-handed vorpal for turtling w/cleave,GC (it's a slow process but works in a pinch).
twink - Mineral 2 (shroud crafted). get +4AC insight on a one handed weapon for AC tanking.

Other:
untwink - voice of the master (deleras), golden cartouche (deleras), minos legens helm (orchard), +1 attack goggles (korthos). a good intimidate item.
twink - bloodstone (AH or menechtarun desert). head of good fortune (reaver raid). mineral 2 or charisma skill item (shroud crafted). planar gird (AH or xorian cipher). Levik's bracers (hound raid). +15 intimidate item. tumbleweed (hound raid) or spectral gloves (AH or offering of blood)

you'll probably end up with two gear setups. One for dps, and swapping any number of items around for high AC intimitanking. I keep one hotbar filled with my dps gear and another for my intimitank setup. Just run down the line of one hotbar and you're ready to go.

[Bulah]

Thanks for the responses guys! Having never been to end game content designing a toon for it is made much easier with expert advice.

I'm curious as to what "additional AC with Shield equipped" you get from SDII and whether they mean on top of the already +2AC. As well I was thinking that the KotC bonuses although modest would still be better end game than any other of the Pally PrE's and the cost relative to the bonuses I thought were not that bad. Does the + max dex bonus to Shield and Heavy armor that you get from SD II mean Tower Shields as well or just regular shields? As well is Khopesh a given for tanking or can he get it done effectively with something else and dps with Falchions when needed?

I've modified the build somewhat given some of my assumptions and realigned some stat's to even them out at 20 and changed out some of his save feats for some of the offensive feats to aid his hit scores so please if you have the time take a look and tell me if it's more in line with what will be needed at 20. Again thanks in advance for your time.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.14
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(12 Fighter \ 6 Paladin \ 2 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 404
Spell Points: 45 
BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
Fortitude: 24
Reflex: 20
Will: 16

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             15                    22
Dexterity            12                    16
Constitution         16                    20
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             14                    18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               5                    20
Bluff                 3                     5
Concentration         3                     5
Diplomacy             2                     4
Disable Device        5                     6
Haggle                6                     8
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  1                     3
Intimidate            6                    33
Jump                  3                    11
Listen                3                     4
Move Silently         1                     3
Open Lock             5                     7
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                3                     4
Spot                  3                    10
Swim                  2                     6
Tumble                5                    10
Use Magic Device      6                    30

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Lightning Reflexes
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Force of Personality


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Use Magic Device


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)
Ability Raise: CON


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Fighter)


Level 11 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 12 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 13 (Fighter)


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Trip
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Fighter)


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Dexterity I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Exalted Smite I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Knight of the Chalice I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Intimidate II
Enhancement: Paladin Energy of the Templar I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I

Will Tumble of 10 and Balance of 20 be adequate?

[krud]

I believe the additional AC is +4 when shield blocking, vs +2 without SD. In the SD stance you get another +3 bonus to AC. Only tower shields have a max dex limit, so the max dex increase applies to tower shields. Regular shields have no max dex limit.

I would just not pick up any of the paladin PrEs. You can pick up fighter strength 2 or 3 with the AP saved from dropping KotC. You can also pick up bulwark of good for another +1 to AC. fighter haste 2 or 3 is another good option. You can also replace greater weapon focus with an intimidate feat (skill focus, bullheaded, or human sentinel dragonmark) if you plan on intimitanking raid bosses.

I still think you need to focus on strength more. A 22 strength (28 with item) for a level 20 ftr is kind of weak. Starting at 16str, plus 2 from ftr strength, 1 human adaptability, 5 level ups, +2 tome, +6 item will put you at 32. It may not seem like a big increase, but every bit helps. You'll find yourself dpsing often enough, that you won't regret it.

tumble of 10 will do, balance is ok too