Solo vs Group Play, my experiences so far

[Gercho]

I started my char planning to play solo most of the time, if not all the time, and started that way, now i have been finding some time to play in groups so i have tried, my experience so far hasnt been great i should say.

So far, i have found two kind of groups, the first kind are clueless, and most of the time they wont listen, one example, we were doing deleras part 2, it was my first time but i knew about the lever, the party got to the lever, i told them what to do, they didnt listened and started backtracking all the way to the entrance of the quest, even when i was telling them to come back, i had to wait like 20 minutes for the party to return and listen.

The second kind of groups, they have 3 or more experienced players, that want to do the quest as fast as possible, i dont have problems with those kind of groups if i know already the quest, cause i can zerg with them, but if i dont know the quest, i end chasing the group all the time, and they usually dont stop to explain anything, even when before joining the group i sent a tell saying that i didnt knew the quest, they invited me, but then wont ever answer a question.

Usually in those groups, i end screwing the chain quest givers cause i dont want to delay the others. Happened to me with Co6, and with VON flagging, i end getting good xp, the favor, but usually miss the end reward or the flagging, and in general dont enjoy the quests cause its a chase the party for me, in VoNn is even more problematic cause the party sometimes split and i dont know who to chase :P

I know that my experiences are limited and dont have to be the norm, but so far i found solo playing much more rewarding than grouping.

When i m looking for groups i usually dont have too many options to chose for my level, so i think most groups fall in that category, though i admit the possibility that i had some bad luck.

Again, i dont have problem with a group of new players, if they are willing to learn togheter, and listen to some small advices somoene could give, and i dont have problem with zergers if they stop to explain something when you ask. But so far i havent had any luck with those 2 kind of groups.

[lyeman]

Oh, there's no question about it, soloing is the faster way to level. Only group if you're bored or for raids or other tough quests. If you want xp, grab some pots and a hireling and go to town. Especially with dungeon scaling, it's often easier that way, and no chance of clueless noobs or impatient vets screwing you.

It used to be better, and it will probably settle down a bit, it's just that right now, you have a ton of new players, almost all of whom are low level, who won't listen because they're used to everyone else either being just as clueless as they are or zerging and messing their quest chain up, costing them loot, etc, and then you have vets rerolling and reincarnating, and they just want to level so as to escape the aforementioned noobs.

If they would just have a way to see who is f2p, this would be much easier.

[Temet]

To roughly paraphrase something a friend quoted to me (off these forums I think) "Want it easy? Solo. Want a challenge? Solo with six people in the instance/party with you. Want a real challenge? Let those people try to help."

Once or twice a week I punish myself by PUGing, and it always turns out badly. Best case scenario? Stuff like running Delera's underlevel on elite with everyone in the quest either dead or AFK except one other person. More usually however is like yesterday. I needed Library of Threnal so I joined a group, they hadn't reached it yet so I helped them do the pre quests... First one, person who needs it dies and recalls out. Second try, someone drags Coyle into battle, third try someone activates boss without rest of the party and triggers red DA. After that I left and duoed it later.

If you're on Ghallanda you can party with me if you like, I don't mind having someone to chat with. However, I admit I do tend to go fast. I'm willing to explain as I go however.

[Sinni]

if i know there are people in the party who are new to the quest (and i usually ask if anyone doesn't know the quest) i always explain what's going on and go slower (ok, i'm a healer, so i seldomly run ahead anyway). most of the time the other experienced players in the party start doing the same and stop zerging too.

and i never had problems completing quests with PUGs btw. it's just a question how you treat those new to the quest. and if everyone knows it there isn't a problem anyway.
some jerks that don't listen are an other matter. but i'v never seen them in p2p or higher lvl content.

[Halo_572]

I only ever build to play solo PD with or without a hireling to distract the mobs. I only public play when I either want to be sociable or the quest type or level requires it.

I am quite happy to solo on elite on the lower levels as finding good players is difficult and even if you friend them it is unlikely you will come across them again due to your/their times of play. They may also have moved on in level/quests and not want to do them and if they are f2p then they can't access STk, Catacombs, etc anyway.

[Gercho]

if i know there are people in the party who are new to the quest (and i usually ask if anyone doesn't know the quest) i always explain what's going on and go slower (ok, i'm a healer, so i seldomly run ahead anyway). most of the time the other experienced players in the party start doing the same and stop zerging too.

and i never had problems completing quests with PUGs btw. it's just a question how you treat those new to the quest. and if everyone knows it there isn't a problem anyway.
some jerks that don't listen are an other matter. but i'v never seen them in p2p or higher lvl content.

well, one example of why explaining to new people some times saves time, last night we were doing VON 2, i was chasing people all the time, never getting on time to swing my sword, i started trying going faster, so i started jumping from high places to lower with my ff instead of using stairs or the like, when we were close to the end (because most objetives were complete, i didnt had any idea what we were doing) i just fell from a jump, and everyone got screwed, i have to admit that nobody gave me a hard time because i fell, but someone could have told me before, "hey, be carefull, dont fall or we are all booted from the quest"

I m on Thelanis BTW.

[Kralgnax]

Below level 8, PUGs are mostly dodgy, but they do get better.

Please remember, DDO is a social game, and you want to get to know people, you will have much better adventuring experiences.

[BlackSteel]

soloing is only better if you're familiar with where to go and how to do it.

For both soloing and catching up with us zerging vets try browsing this guide when you're on an unfamiliar quest:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...st+quest+guide

[Gercho]

Please remember, DDO is a social game, and you want to get to know people, you will have much better adventuring experiences.

How do i get to know people if the vets are zerging and the newbs dont even aknowledge my existence on the chat? :P
I joined a guild, but currently at my lvl there arent many players online so i cant group with them.

[Lordress]

it's just a game. And i don't mean that sarcastically. It's just a game, so if your pug turns into a circus, well...enjoy the circus. I solo mostly, just cuz i want to "do" what needs done..and not run around picking up noob stones, or chasing vets who leave me... but now and then, going to the circus is fun.

And admit it... every great once in a while, that Pug you half heartly got into turns out to be a great group that has a great run. *smile*



~just my still kinda newbie two cents~

[Sinni]

I am quite happy to solo on elite on the lower levels as finding good players is difficult and even if you friend them it is unlikely you will come across them again due to your/their times of play. They may also have moved on in level/quests and not want to do them and if they are f2p then they can't access STk, Catacombs, etc anyway.

that may be true on lower levels. but from lvl 10 on i started to end up with the same people over and over to an extend where i got the feeling they followed me (greetings to Owmltlkicks). i'm lvl 18 now btw and still often group with them.
the time of play usually isn't an issue as you met them while playing so your times of play are usually overlapping.

well, one example of why explaining to new people some times saves time, last night we were doing VON 2, i was chasing people all the time, never getting on time to swing my sword, i started trying going faster, so i started jumping from high places to lower with my ff instead of using stairs or the like, when we were close to the end (because most objetives were complete, i didnt had any idea what we were doing) i just fell from a jump, and everyone got screwed, i have to admit that nobody gave me a hard time because i fell, but someone could have told me before, "hey, be carefull, dont fall or we are all booted from the quest"

I m on Thelanis BTW.

well, one of the objectives of VON2 says "Don't fall off the platforms" or something like that and they will even change that with update 3, so you don't fail the quest anymore if that happens. but yeah, that's one of the quests where people tend to split up to speed things up. if nobody explains anything you are pretty much screwed.

if you ever have questions and i'm online don't hesitate to send me a tell. The 2 chars i'm playing atm are Siwani and Silisa (on Thelanis of course)

[Varr]

I'm a big time zerger. I pug every run (as lead, lfm Zerg run 90%of the time.)

It never slows me down, I don't wait to fill, and don't wait to keep everyone together.

I love bringing others along and almost every time the run is faster and more xp for optionals, conquest, ransack and the like.

I will happily give a bit of advice here and there and answer spacific good questions.

Never never feel the time crunch to be on the right part of the chain though, always happy to run the next part and wait at end to complete for a min while new players advance and reenter.

I think ya have had more bad luck than good.....the zergers that post lmfs are either not very good, or really are happy to bring newbs along if those players are willing to sacrific some of the first time goodness of well written quests. Zerging is less about fun and more about produtivity and hurts the great new player experience.

If you chose to join one of those groups, all I ask is you can get into the front door of the quest and try not to die.

[Spell]

It feels totally wrong that Turbine went down the wrong path with all this soloability questing.
It just seems so un-D&D. But then... i've never had a DM willing to sit down and run a pnp quest for just me alone.

[Temet]

It feels totally wrong that Turbine went down the wrong path with all this soloability questing.
It just seems so un-D&D. But then... i've never had a DM willing to sit down and run a pnp quest for just me alone.

I've done nearly as much one on one P&P as group. What I've never seen is P&P with 12 people. Raiding is unnatural for D&D, and unsurprisingly it feels tacked on to the original game to me. It seems like there are two games here, DDO, and a generic raiding MMO.

Still, I do agree that D&D by default seems to involve around 4 people and would like DDO more if it emphasized that (and not through levers/runes/other ways of forcing partying). It's one of the reasons that DDO at launch remains one of my favorite MMOs ever released, whereas the current version is just something to do to distract myself.

[Khayvan]

I m on Thelanis BTW.

Interesting. I play on Thelanis and Argo and, of the two, I have had the better experiences on Thelanis.

My last PuG I ran into the "zerging vets" thing. My favored soul joined an STK run that was looking for a healer, and then the group proceeded to split up and run away from me. I spent the whole time playing catch up and was always at a loss as to who to follow. The party leader made very little attempt to keep the group together (in his defense, the one time he did try and organize a strategy nobody that was with him listened) but I don't even know why he posted an LFM when he didn't seem interested in running with a group. I sure don't get the point of specifically asking for a healer and then spending the whole quest outpacing said healer and keeping him from doing his job.

On top of that, another experienced player in the group was rather insulting over voice and seemed pretty intolerant of newer players that don't have optimized, reincarnated, twinked out uber builds. Needless to say, I dropped out after finishing the quest, this just isn't the type of group I want to run with.

But I've had great runs as well, especially a Tangleroot run with a vet that really wanted to teach new players and a group that listened to her. I had a blast and learned a thing or three. That's what I'm looking for in DDO.

[Eleia]

How do i get to know people if the vets are zerging and the newbs dont even aknowledge my existence on the chat? :P
I joined a guild, but currently at my lvl there arent many players online so i cant group with them.

I've been playing since '07, and still have this problem as well. Ok, I leave and come back so much, most of the people on my friends list have moved on to new characters. Why can't we just have account based friends lists?

Anyway, finding a guild with players your level has always been hit or miss. What has worked for me in the past (I've been enjoying the scaling and hirelings this time around so have been duoing) was putting up my own LFGs. I would put need guide, friendly players, looking to have fun...or something of that nature.

Sometimes, I'd get lucky and get the best players the game has, and after a run, would ask in voice if I could put them on friends list. In a few weeks of doing this, you can have a huge list of great people to play with.

Most new players are really looking for new friends to group with, and are just shy, and most vets actualy like playing with good new players. We're out there, you just have to work a bit to find us.

[Gercho]

I've done nearly as much one on one P&P as group. What I've never seen is P&P with 12 people. Raiding is unnatural for D&D, and unsurprisingly it feels tacked on to the original game to me. It seems like there are two games here, DDO, and a generic raiding MMO.

Still, I do agree that D&D by default seems to involve around 4 people and would like DDO more if it emphasized that (and not through levers/runes/other ways of forcing partying). It's one of the reasons that DDO at launch remains one of my favorite MMOs ever released, whereas the current version is just something to do to distract myself.

Well, we ran once a quest with 12 people on PnP with 2 dms directing two different groups in different paths and eventually meeting, lots of fun, cause we improvised a lot on the quest, for one DM the climate was some scorching sun, while the other had everyone wet with an eternal storm :P, there were several other inconsistencies, the castle for one was a small keep, for the other was a big castle, and the like

[Temet]

Well, we ran once a quest with 12 people on PnP with 2 dms directing two different groups in different paths and eventually meeting, lots of fun, cause we improvised a lot on the quest, for one DM the climate was some scorching sun, while the other had everyone wet with an eternal storm :P, there were several other inconsistencies, the castle for one was a small keep, for the other was a big castle, and the like

Heh, not quite the same thing but yeah I've done similar. Most memorably I participated in a game where two groups of PCs were opposing each other, one evil, one good. I'd actually like to do that again, as the campaign fell apart shortly after it started (one of the DMs had computer trouble).

I haven't played P&P in a few months honestly, and the last game to actually get going was a very short level 20 campaign where I was playing a Mailman build.

[Gercho]

I've been playing since '07, and still have this problem as well. Ok, I leave and come back so much, most of the people on my friends list have moved on to new characters. Why can't we just have account based friends lists?

Anyway, finding a guild with players your level has always been hit or miss. What has worked for me in the past (I've been enjoying the scaling and hirelings this time around so have been duoing) was putting up my own LFGs. I would put need guide, friendly players, looking to have fun...or something of that nature.

Sometimes, I'd get lucky and get the best players the game has, and after a run, would ask in voice if I could put them on friends list. In a few weeks of doing this, you can have a huge list of great people to play with.

Most new players are really looking for new friends to group with, and are just shy, and most vets actualy like playing with good new players. We're out there, you just have to work a bit to find us.

In general good advice, i m a little shy of starting groups for quests i dont know, even if i put "guide welcome" there is no guarantee i will get a guide at all

[Temet]

In general good advice, i m a little shy of starting groups for quests i dont know, even if i put "guide welcome" there is no guarantee i will get a guide at all

What I've had success with is putting LFMs up not out of need, but for company. List what you're running (something you're sure you can do solo even if fully scaled) and then mention you'd like some company in the LFM. Even if it doesn't succeed, you can just solo the quest. No time loss, relatively minimal bother, and you might actually get someone worth talking to (or adding to your friend list).

Of course, even this misfires occasionally. Last time I did it I ended up spending more time showing people where the Orchard was, screening out F2Ps, and recovering stones than doing the run. PUGs will always be at least something of a bother, can't help it with this player base.