Bard Haaaalp!

[TheBlueFox]

Alright, so my first bard was a strange attempt. It was a drow Virtuoso. Focused on CC mostly, healing as a secondary, Combat tetriary.

STR 12
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 8
CHA 16

Weapon finesse was taken just so I could hit with melee. and I just... I dont quite like how it turned out. I think I put too much intelligence. I need Perform, UMD, Concentration, and Haggle. Maybe diplomacy. I guess I dont NEED spot and search, I can leave that to others. I'm not going to be a Bard Rogue.

So help me out, Should I stay Drow, or should I go halfling.

what I WANT, is to be an offensive bard with nice songs. CC is...an issue right now. the only good CC that bards get is ottos and glitterdust. those dont turn out to be great at end game, even with heighten.

Smacking a single enemy with Ottos and beating them down with a weapon seem cool though, but would I be better served just upping str and smacking them with cold hard steel instead?

I LOVE the CC of the virtuoso, but...Groups aren't patient enough for it. Warchanters seem to be desired most because of this.

So help me out here. with all your bardy wisdom, what kind of character would be good for me? Some kind of Drow Warchanter, or does Human fare better for this...halfling?

[BoBoDaClown]

Bard 20 Warchanter - Human for feat strappedness, although halfling shouldn't be discounted.

Str: 16-17 -> level ups
Con: 15-16
Dex: 15-16: depending on +1 or +2 tome for twf
Cha: 8-10 - item/tome/enhancement dependency for spell casting
Toughness, Extend, PA, Weapon Foc, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Improved Crit.


Bard Human 20 Spellsinger for CC
15 Str
14 Con
18 Cha -> level ups
Toughness, Extend, Max, Spell Focus x2, Spell Pen x2, Heighten

Should be a CC bard that can do it as well as possible, and could probably melee a bit better than your example (an assumption there).


Other Warchanter Options include splashing, like:
18/2 with either rogue or fighter.
16/2/2 rogue/fighter (nets you evasion, Khopesh, Maximise)
16/3/1 rogue/fighter (evasion, more sneak attack, Khopesh, rogue skills given slightly higher intelligence)
15/3/2 rogue/fighter

With the splashes Halfling becomes more viable because you get extra feats.

I hope that helps and gives you something to think about

[WitcherX]

Since you are going a Drow bard (Rem they have natural Spell Resistance and many mob casters cannot even touch you).
Ill suggest the following strats. I knw 14 con is very hard to come by.
Pump your charisma to 20 base. Helps DC and spell points.

Fighters will love it when you make the giants and orthrons and devils dance.

I have also done many quests where i have been promoted as a prime healer.

Dont let anyone tell you that Warchanters cannot be good at cc. I have one going and he is a great CC/healer bard with wc songs.
Use heighten. and use Dball and Mind fog in Combo. Have been using these in Shroud and other quests.
I always use these spell in combo and have also tried using just dball and mobs still get cought in it

With a healer around I can fool around with the fighters.
Always keep them hasted and tuned with your songs.

Use quarterstaffs as weapon. ( I have got a Rahls might rite now and it rocks)(Also got a paralyzing QS :P ).


Str- 13 for feats of warchanter +1 tome if needed
Dex - 11 +1 tome if needed
Con - 12 ( I knw this is a bit less but really cant help it. and very debatable. I have this bard goin with these stats and belive me you can get close to 400 hp if you plan well)
+6 item + Minos Helm +Toughness feat + rage +songs hp +2 Favor Tome+ Greater False Life Item + exceptional Cons Ability+ shroud item
Wis - 8 or 10 wat ever is the base
Int - 10 + 2 tome @ lvl 7
Cha - 20 ( most imp) + 2 tome (+3 shroud items) ( All lvl up here) (end statt :38-42)
(Dont even think of +3 tomes I havnt heard of it. Btw u can search +4 tome in Coin pile.
In Tor I told my party tat I got a +4 tome in coin piles and all started searching the coin piles lol.

You will be a good CC/healer bard with wc songs and can do decent damage.
Feats in order. Force of Pesonality to pump up ur will. , Powe Attack, Weapon Focus, Spell Pen 1, Spell Pen 2, Heighten, Toughness. (Dont use power attack on as your str is low)

Dont even think of putting skill points in intimitate - its a waste. Let the tanks do it.
Skills focus (Concentration, Perform, Haggle, UMD, Balance, Diplomacy (imp to turn away enemies coming to u and very good in some quests like Cabal or Curcible dnt rem), Jump (upto 10-20- you will get a item with charges ), Hide if you want it,

[Krag]

So help me out here. with all your bardy wisdom, what kind of character would be good for me? Some kind of Drow Warchanter, or does Human fare better for this...halfling?

Human 32 >> Drow 28.
However in the new Mod 32-pb Drow should be available which makes them better choice.
15/3/2 rogue/fighter is IMO the best splash for any bard who want to fight in melee.

Feats:
Toughness, Extend, WF, PA, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, IC
Pick Force of Personality, Maximize or OTWF for the last feat.

[honkuimushi]

Alright, so my first bard was a strange attempt. It was a drow Virtuoso. Focused on CC mostly, healing as a secondary, Combat tetriary.

STR 12
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 8
CHA 16

Weapon finesse was taken just so I could hit with melee. and I just... I dont quite like how it turned out. I think I put too much intelligence. I need Perform, UMD, Concentration, and Haggle. Maybe diplomacy. I guess I dont NEED spot and search, I can leave that to others. I'm not going to be a Bard Rogue.

So help me out, Should I stay Drow, or should I go halfling.

what I WANT, is to be an offensive bard with nice songs. CC is...an issue right now. the only good CC that bards get is ottos and glitterdust. those dont turn out to be great at end game, even with heighten.

Smacking a single enemy with Ottos and beating them down with a weapon seem cool though, but would I be better served just upping str and smacking them with cold hard steel instead?

I LOVE the CC of the virtuoso, but...Groups aren't patient enough for it. Warchanters seem to be desired most because of this.

So help me out here. with all your bardy wisdom, what kind of character would be good for me? Some kind of Drow Warchanter, or does Human fare better for this...halfling?

There is actually some good CC that bards have outside of Otto's (Ir)Resistable Dance, Glitterdust and Fascinate. Hypnotism is useful for a long time. I actually was in a Sleeping Dust run without a regular arcane but with 2 Bards. They Hypnoed all the spiders. Otto's Sphere gives a nice AOE CC option and Hold Monster is good. The problem is that you're going to have to spend feats in order to get things to land. Spell Penetration, Hieghten, and the Spell Focus feats are all pretty standard for a CC bard. You usually start with an 18+ Charisma and put all level ups there. Drow can excell here. The lack of high level spell slots for heighten hurts, but the Spellsinger PrE and capstone help. If you're looking for a caster, that's the way to go.

On the other hand, you can go Warchanter. There are 2 basic paths for a Warchanter, those that are built to be good buffers and good warriors and those that are great buffers and so-so warriors. You can do decent CC on a Warchanter, but it costs you most of your combat ability. Caster Warchanters tend to follow the second path. You're really strengthening your weaknesses rather than playing to your strengths.

For a combat focused Warchanter, the basic build is Bard 18/ Fighter 2, though you will see a few builds with 2 rogue or a level or 2 of Barbarian. Most of these builds drop Charisma for Strength and sometimes Dexterity. I like humans and dwarves here.

The other build tends to be pure for the extra +1 to Inspire Courage at level 20. It's hard to fit in all of the combat feats you need so some of them will skip the THF and TWF feat chains and spend the feats on casting. They also tend to go for a moderate Strength and raise Charisma for DCs and spell points. I like humans and drow here.

All can be decent characters, it really depends on what playstyle you prefer.

[TheBlueFox]

I think I might try a human or drow spellsinger. I dont want to multiclass and a warchanter seems to be better off multiclassing with a fighter or something of the sort. I might get a little bit of STR though so I can pick up a blade when its needed, but not much Dex since I wont be able to get the AC needed for much of anything. I might raise Int a bit, 10 or 12 to get skills and Diplo, but mostly focus in Cha. Ill try to get a 14 con for survivability as well.

I just like the idea of a bard using songs and spells rather than a sword, Its just my personal taste.