Hatred of Battle Clerics

[Talamare2k4]

This is not a bash topic saying Battle Clerics are bad, It is an excellent build in the hands of many

This is more of a bash of the 'ninja' battle clerics so to speak



These are the players who keep quiet that they are battle clerics with zero intention of healing anyone but themselves, They join groups and stroll into dungeons, When the fight starts half the group dies and the clerics mana is still full and hes bashing with the front liners


Let me be clear
1 - Its fine to be a battle cleric, just make your group aware that you do not intend to heal
2 - Especially make an effort If you are the only thing that comes close to a healer in your group
3 - If a group is specifically looking for a Cleric/Favored Soul, then that group is looking for a healer, not a fighter in disguise

[Vouivre]

Or you could just find group leaders who are smart enough to ask clerics if they are healers or not.

[Lehrman]

We H8s U 4 stealing our killz!

If you can heal while killing, no one will care if you are a battle cleric.

[Corstaad]

I dont think anyone would disagree with a buffing back-up healer. If a battlecleric isn't using his abilities to help the group I'd boot them as well.

[Samadhi]

Or you could just find group leaders who are smart enough to ask clerics if they are healers or not.

Should I also ask a fighter if he is going to be meleeing and a caster if he can land spells just because I have the star? It is the responsibility of someone playing an off role to make themselves known if it is going to be relevant to the quest; not the group leader to play 20 questions with everyone hitting the LFM

[Corstaad]

This is not a bash topic saying Battle Clerics are bad, It is an excellent build in the hands of many

This is more of a bash of the 'ninja' battle clerics so to speak



These are the players who keep quiet that they are battle clerics with zero intention of healing anyone but themselves, They join groups and stroll into dungeons, When the fight starts half the group dies and the clerics mana is still full and hes bashing with the front liners


Let me be clear
1 - Its fine to be a battle cleric, just make your group aware that you do not intend to heal
2 - Especially make an effort If you are the only thing that comes close to a healer in your group
3 - If a group is specifically looking for a Cleric/Favored Soul, then that group is looking for a healer, not a fighter in disguise

Really I dont consider it fine if you let your group die and you have mana to drop heals. Thats just dumb you might as well roll a melee class considering your not playing to the utility of the class. If you want to roll a stupid toon for RP reason then go ahead but expect some grief which would be RPing from your teamates.

[Xaxx]

Really I dont consider it fine if you let your group die and you have mana to drop heals. Thats just dumb you might as well roll a melee class considering your not playing to the utility of the class. If you want to roll a stupid toon for RP reason then go ahead but expect some grief which would be RPing from your teamates.

show me a mele class that can self heal, drop an aoe over time spell (blade barrier), energy drain, cometfall, and every other spell available and still have over 500 hp and still womp some monster tail with a great sword or dual scims or dual longswords or even a great axe (i've seen some dwarven fvs/bc's runin that build)

You show me a mele where I can sacrifice a bit of to hit and a bit of damage for all the self healing and spell killing ability of a well build battle cleric or mele fvs (i have 2 of these a human and a wf and they both stomp anything in their way) and I'll play it.... oh there isnt a *mele class* out there that can do that.... but an fvs can... oh really... well gosh... I wonder what I should build... fighter... who chugs pots like they're goin out of style.... or a wf fvs with 580 hp 2500 sp greensteel greatsword and enough blood on him to grease a sedan through a mouse hole (from all the **** he just slaughtered while the lev 20 fighter stood there and quaffed pots)... oh someone should be there to heal that lev 20 fighter... oh what do you know that lev 20 mele fvs just killed as much as that fighter AND he was able to heal himself all along the way.....Yes yes I can see why you so dislike mele fvs/bc and want all fighters in your party.... good for you

[Redlotusninjagrl]

/agreed

Same for Favored Souls. I was in a group with a Favored Soul who not only zerged ahead and died, but said during the run "If you aren't going to heal me, I would appreciate it if you would say so instead of letting me die". Huh? Your spell points outnumber mine as a cleric. You died because you ran ahead. And you are a Favored Soul. He said that he was pure melee and could out-kill the rest of the group.

/sigh

[BoBoDaClown]

Or you could just find group leaders who are smart enough to ask clerics if they are healers or not.

No.

It's practical to assume that someone who is asking for a cleric or fvs to round off the group wants a healer.

When I see a grp asking for a bard/cleric/fvs to fill the last spot, I know my bard better be in a healing mood.

[bobbryan2]

No.

It's practical to assume that someone who is asking for a cleric or fvs to round off the group wants a healer.

When I see a grp asking for a bard/cleric/fvs to fill the last spot, I know my bard better be in a healing mood.

There's a big difference between wanting heals constantly during battle, and wanting to be topped off after fights.

If the melees can't get through fights without dying without constant supervision, they should be equally upfront about their gimpiness.

[BoBoDaClown]

There's a big difference between wanting heals constantly during battle, and wanting to be topped off after fights.

If the melees can't get through fights without dying without constant supervision, they should be equally upfront about their gimpiness.

For sure - I'm not arguing about whether you even need a healer for said quest (cos you usually don't).

But the advertising - when a 'Group Leader' has no healer in the party, and is advertising for a healing class, you know what they want, and you know that when you join.

edit: I would also think that many newer players would actually struggle to hold their own without a healer - i.e. are 'gimp' to use a derogatory term. They don't have the build knowledge and resources to be otherwise.

[cdemeritt]

I play a battle cleric... healing is his first job... keeping a party alive. If the group doesn't need healing or is taking very little damage, I see no problem in joining in the fighting weither it is as an offensive caster or melee (or both), so long as the group is alive... as soon as people are getting hurt, it's usually not difficult to drop back and heal, or to target oneself and drop a couple masses.. ran ritual sacrifices the other night with 5 melee and my battle cleric... (no arcane) no one complained when I took out the air elies.. but the party stayed alive... had a close one though when the party split up, (I went to the shrine, some continued onward) but still no deaths...

[Almerel]

show me a mele class that can self heal, drop an aoe over time spell (blade barrier), energy drain, cometfall, and every other spell available and still have over 500 hp and still womp some monster tail with a great sword or dual scims or dual longswords or even a great axe (i've seen some dwarven fvs/bc's runin that build)

You show me a mele where I can sacrifice a bit of to hit and a bit of damage for all the self healing and spell killing ability of a well build battle cleric or mele fvs (i have 2 of these a human and a wf and they both stomp anything in their way) and I'll play it.... oh there isnt a *mele class* out there that can do that.... but an fvs can... oh really... well gosh... I wonder what I should build... fighter... who chugs pots like they're goin out of style.... or a wf fvs with 580 hp 2500 sp greensteel greatsword and enough blood on him to grease a sedan through a mouse hole (from all the **** he just slaughtered while the lev 20 fighter stood there and quaffed pots)... oh someone should be there to heal that lev 20 fighter... oh what do you know that lev 20 mele fvs just killed as much as that fighter AND he was able to heal himself all along the way.....Yes yes I can see why you so dislike mele fvs/bc and want all fighters in your party.... good for you

So what your saying is that you should have solo'd the quest because more l33t than the fighter. Well now that we know that, save that group spot for someone willing to heal. You obviously don't need any help... Oh wait I get it... Your ego need the help so you like to prove you l33tn3ss, mybad.

[bobbryan2]

So what your saying is that you should have solo'd the quest because more l33t than the fighter. Well now that we know that, save that group spot for someone willing to heal. You obviously don't need any help... Oh wait I get it... Your ego need the help so you like to prove you l33tn3ss, mybad.

Or maybe he is hoping to meet 1-2 people with similar skills so the time on quests can get cut in half.

Or do you think the only reason people should group is because they can't do anything without help? What happens when good players group together?

[Club'in]

There's a big difference between wanting heals constantly during battle, and wanting to be topped off after fights.

If the melees can't get through fights without dying without constant supervision, they should be equally upfront about their gimpiness.

Lol. I've run into this. Joined a group doing some Gianthold quests. The rogue and ranger were practically gettin one-shotted. Meanwhile, I as the cleric, was too busy trying to thin the herd with destruct and banishment to be quickdraw mcgraw on the heals. I'm pretty sure it would have been much uglier if I wasn't banishing those lion thingys. And then, after finishing, the rogue says "okay, let's do that again on Hard".

[rjedi]

i was trying out a battle cleric with sirgog's help of course and i sent the group leader a tell that i was a battle cleric and he said that was fine.
So we are just about to do some 3bc quest when the group decides that we should do some slayer and exploerers,
even after this desicion i repeated that i was a battle cleric
a monk and a ranger immediatly called me a gimp noob and said that we always need a healer in slayers and then recalled and droped group.
really it suprises me what the big deal about them is. let whoever play there own way and if you dont like it to bad.

[sirgog]

I play a battle cleric... healing is his first job... keeping a party alive. If the group doesn't need healing or is taking very little damage, I see no problem in joining in the fighting weither it is as an offensive caster or melee (or both), so long as the group is alive... as soon as people are getting hurt, it's usually not difficult to drop back and heal, or to target oneself and drop a couple masses.. ran ritual sacrifices the other night with 5 melee and my battle cleric... (no arcane) no one complained when I took out the air elies.. but the party stayed alive... had a close one though when the party split up, (I went to the shrine, some continued onward) but still no deaths...

This is the way to play a battlecleric, although I tend to keep Quicken Spell on and heal without dropping out of combat (except if mana preservation is more of an issue than maximizing damage output). At level cap, leave Quicken on all the time and do almost all healing with Mass Heal cast from the middle of combat (remember it takes 2.5 seconds to cast, so don't use it at the last second).

I think the main reasons for mistrust of battleclerics are twofold:
1) It's easy to blame the healer whenever you die. Even if it's clearly someone else's fault (example: someone running Gianthold Elite with no fortification and 175hp gets killed by a normal hit followed by a crit 1 second later, then blames the cleric for it). Battleclerics - regardless of whether they joined the party on a 'heal/melee hybrid' basis, or as a 'WF FvS Bladesworn Transformation all melee build' - have a class icon that screams 'healer' so they cop this abuse.
2) There's a tiny number of terrible ones. No more than other classes/builds, but they stand out more - a rogue that does nothing but trapsmithing is equally useless, but goes unnoticed.

Regardless, by 20, both of these factors are pretty much gone.

[hermespan]

a monk and a ranger immediatly called me a gimp noob and said that we always need a healer in slayers

translation:
"we suck, take a lot of damage, and don't like buying wands, we want a heal bot that will spend all of his money on wands for us and spam heals so we don't die with our poorly equipped gimped characters or have to buy the 3 CSW wands you will burn."

Don't take it personal. They need a babysitter.

Edit: I play a ranger btw.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

I play a battle cleric... healing is his first job... keeping a party alive. If the group doesn't need healing or is taking very little damage, I see no problem in joining in the fighting weither it is as an offensive caster or melee (or both), so long as the group is alive... as soon as people are getting hurt, it's usually not difficult to drop back and heal, or to target oneself and drop a couple masses.. ran ritual sacrifices the other night with 5 melee and my battle cleric... (no arcane) no one complained when I took out the air elies.. but the party stayed alive... had a close one though when the party split up, (I went to the shrine, some continued onward) but still no deaths...

This is the approach I have taken on my FvS and Clerics at lower levels. My FvS often does very well in kill counts while keeping the party standing. It does occassionally result in an accident but its a lot more fun than playing healbot and accidents only tend to happen to crappy builds/players who can't take a hit, don't know how to deal with agro, and don't even hit a potion when they are down.

[Krag]

show me a mele class that can self heal, drop an aoe over time spell (blade barrier), energy drain, cometfall, and every other spell available and still have over 500 hp and still womp some monster tail with a great sword or dual scims or dual longswords or even a great axe (i've seen some dwarven fvs/bc's runin that build)

I can show you a class that can self heal, has always-landing CC, can perma-haste whole party, has rogue skills, evasion with good reflexes, always has displacement on, can use any item in the game, has absolutely BEST party buffs and still does the same melee damege as you do.