Hatred of Battle Clerics

[Xaxx]

I can show you a class that can self heal, has always-landing CC, can perma-haste whole party, has rogue skills, evasion with good reflexes, always has displacement on, can use any item in the game, has absolutely BEST party buffs and still does the same melee damege as you do.

bard throws in with another caster class... my response was to someone commenting on mele being better then a battle cleric... his opinion on a battle bard would probably be the same and throw in with my argument heh

[Xaxx]

So what your saying is that you should have solo'd the quest because more l33t than the fighter. Well now that we know that, save that group spot for someone willing to heal. You obviously don't need any help... Oh wait I get it... Your ego need the help so you like to prove you l33tn3ss, mybad.

sorry dude, i dont go along with your leet speak, never been my thing. Obviously you dont get the point of the post, missed it completly didnt ya?

[akla_thornfist]

There's a big difference between wanting heals constantly during battle, and wanting to be topped off after fights.

If the melees can't get through fights without dying without constant supervision, they should be equally upfront about their gimpiness.

i agree with bobbryan on this one, i have a battle cleric and i can heal and kill at the same time, im more than happy to throw a heal to keep the melee alive but when the fights over heal yourself its no fun to join a group and stand around throwing heals at the gimpy melees the whole time.

[donfilibuster]

Healers *must* have the quicken feat too, the fail is in the healer if the tanks die faster than the spell cooldown.
After all, you must have plenty of SP because the melees can't be bothered by being hurt in combat.

[bobbryan2]

Healers *must* have the quicken feat too, the fail is in the healer if the tanks die faster than the spell cooldown.
After all, you must have plenty of SP because the melees can't be bothered by being hurt in combat.

Quicken doesn't shorten the cooldown timer.

If the melee dies while spells are on cooldowns, it means you're taking way too much damage.

[cdemeritt]

Healers *must* have the quicken feat too, the fail is in the healer if the tanks die faster than the spell cooldown.
After all, you must have plenty of SP because the melees can't be bothered by being hurt in combat.

my pure healbot cleric has quicken, but has only used it once... in 2 years... quicken is nice, but often *NOT* nessessary...

[malicia]

my pure healbot cleric has quicken, but has only used it once... in 2 years... quicken is nice, but often *NOT* nessessary...

People will die out in some Amrath quests if you dont use quicken, nothing like a few devils or orthons beating on you for failed concentration.

[Impaqt]

This is not a bash topic saying Battle Clerics are bad, It is an excellent build in the hands of many

This is more of a bash of the 'ninja' battle clerics so to speak



These are the players who keep quiet that they are battle clerics with zero intention of healing anyone but themselves, They join groups and stroll into dungeons, When the fight starts half the group dies and the clerics mana is still full and hes bashing with the front liners


Let me be clear
1 - Its fine to be a battle cleric, just make your group aware that you do not intend to heal
2 - Especially make an effort If you are the only thing that comes close to a healer in your group
3 - If a group is specifically looking for a Cleric/Favored Soul, then that group is looking for a healer, not a fighter in disguise

You are in error.

You are NOT describing a "Battle Cleric" here. You are describing a "BAD Cleric"

a real battle cleric can maintain his party AND melee or Cast as the situation dictates.

Please stop confusing "BAD-LE Clerics" with "BATTLE Clerics"

[bobbryan2]

People will die out in some Amrath quests if you dont use quicken, nothing like a few devils or orthons beating on you for failed concentration.

Amrath is one of those places where you can really see the haves and have nots.

Plenty of melees can make it from fight to fight out there with the occasional heal thrown their way. Others are complete sponges that need constant upkeep.

I tend to throw heals to the people that rarely need them, and let the mana sponges die. Cheaper to rezz them after every fight than for their gimpiness to take not 1, but 2 players out of every encounter.

Even in Amrath, quicken shouldn't be the difference between life and death.

[BlackSteel]

People will die out in some Amrath quests if you dont use quicken, nothing like a few devils or orthons beating on you for failed concentration.

not true, while both of those mobs have a high attack bonus and cleave, they dont tend to hit very hard (unless red named); so if you have a respectable concentration score you're pretty safe.

consider a WF FvS with 15 DR and 50-60 concentration. 'most' things wont be able to break that short of bosses and failed spell saves.

[bobbryan2]

not true, while both of those mobs have a high attack bonus and cleave, they dont tend to hit very hard (unless red named); so if you have a respectable concentration score you're pretty safe.

consider a WF FvS with 15 DR and 50-60 concentration. 'most' things wont be able to break that short of bosses and failed spell saves.

With 15 DR, you won't need more than about a 25-30 concentration, truth be told.

I only keep quicken on because I like to cast fast.

[sirgog]

my pure healbot cleric has quicken, but has only used it once... in 2 years... quicken is nice, but often *NOT* nessessary...

Quicken becomes necessary at level 17+, when you get your best spell (Mass Heal), which is unusable without Quicken (except for out-of-combat heals).

I mean, you *can* mimic a Mass Heal by casting a Maximized, Empowered Mass Cure Critical followed by a Max-Empped Mass Cure Serious, but even a healbot with both Mental Toughness feats, all Empower Healing cost reductions, a Concordant Opposition SP item and a Mysterious Bauble will run out of mana that way.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

When I play my Battle Cleric, I am very careful to only join groups that already have a cleric. This means I seldom find groups for her, but is preferable to being forced to babysit.

Sadly, it seems I end up healing anyway.


But just to make sure that there is no confusion, her last name is "AlmostEvilBattleClr"

But I should restate what I've said before on this subject.
Successful groups have players who do what ever the group needs them to do.
And everyone helps everyone else to the best of their abilities.
And sometimes the best way to help the group is to help yourself.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Healers *must* have the quicken feat too, the fail is in the healer if the tanks die faster than the spell cooldown.
After all, you must have plenty of SP because the melees can't be bothered by being hurt in combat.

I will never accept this line of thinking and playstyle.

[bobbryan2]

I will never accept this line of thinking and playstyle.

Well yeah.

When someone dies, the only fault lies in the person who bit it.

[donfilibuster]

Somehow i lost the sarcasm for the rant :-/
Of course you don't need quicken, it is the tanks that complain after dying too quick.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Or maybe he is hoping to meet 1-2 people with similar skills so the time on quests can get cut in half.

Or do you think the only reason people should group is because they can't do anything without help? What happens when good players group together?

Ive done many of the hardest quests in the game, without a cleric.
And many more with a bored cleric.

The players I most enjoy grouping with, don't wait for clerics.
Dont care if they have one, or if he is a battlecleric.
Don't need one.
Wouldn't wait to be healed by one even if they did have one.
And usually don't get hurt (badly) anyway.
And if someone did get hurt, there would be a chorus of wands and scrolls going off, and competition to be the first to help someone else out.

A battlecleric in a group like that is irrelevant.
No one cares if he heals, no ne needs him to heal.
And he will be all too glad to heal if by some chance he gets the opertunity.

[bobbryan2]

Ive done many of the hardest quests in the game, without a cleric.
And many more with a bored cleric.

The players I most enjoy grouping with, don't wait for clerics.
Dont care if they have one, or if he is a battlecleric.
Don't need one.
Wouldn't wait to be healed by one even if they did have one.
And usually don't get hurt (badly) anyway.
And if someone did get hurt, there would be a chorus of wands and scrolls going off, and competition to be the first to help someone else out.

A battlecleric in a group like that is irrelevant.
No one cares if he heals, no ne needs him to heal.
And he will be all too glad to heal if by some chance he gets the opertunity.

Why was that in response to me?

I'm just saying that just because a character is capable of soloing, doesn't mean he always wants to.

[Almerel]

sorry dude, i dont go along with your leet speak, never been my thing. Obviously you dont get the point of the post, missed it completly didnt ya?

No I got your point it was quite clear. My point is if you have the ability to heal use it and not just for yourself.

My Battle-Soul is only lvl 4 on a server I just started on (so no twink gear to help) and I still manage to keep myself and party members standing. I made my Battle-Soul so I could solo while I got use to the server before I found a guild.

[GorumT]

This is not a bash topic saying Battle Clerics are bad, It is an excellent build in the hands of many

This is more of a bash of the 'ninja' battle clerics so to speak



These are the players who keep quiet that they are battle clerics with zero intention of healing anyone but themselves, They join groups and stroll into dungeons, When the fight starts half the group dies and the clerics mana is still full and hes bashing with the front liners


Let me be clear
1 - Its fine to be a battle cleric, just make your group aware that you do not intend to heal
2 - Especially make an effort If you are the only thing that comes close to a healer in your group
3 - If a group is specifically looking for a Cleric/Favored Soul, then that group is looking for a healer, not a fighter in disguise

You know what I hate? Shadow Priests that don't come out of Shadow Form to heal. I mean, they got a heal button.....Oh, sorry, thought I was on the WoW Priest forums for a sec.

Any Cleric is awesome with the right Feats and Enhancements. I like to bash skulls while healing myself and others.At level 5 my current Cleric has 350sp and 82HPs. Sure, not spectacular, with his 6 Turn Undeads per rest, and having some cleanses that use those turns, but it works well.

What i am trying to say is, bad players will be bad players. No matter what class they play. Good players will adapt their style as neccesary.