Starting damage spell

[richieelias]

How the hell are you supposed to kill elite named ogres with shocking grasp? Btw ogres have low reflex. And of course those mostly one shot people so someone want to take em down fast.

First, you turn on maximize.

Next, you time it properly. Wait for it to start its rage animation and get your hits in then if you're feeling lucky. Or, wait for said rage to end and spam shocking grasp until it is dead.

That is how you safely kill an ogre on elite with shocking grasp.


The problem with taking niacs as a low level WF sorc is that you will have nothing with which to kill everything else that is not an ogre or bugbear. Your other slots are taken up with repair, shield/nightshield, jump. I personally forgoe shield/nightshield at low level and take exped retreat instead, only swapping out repair for shield/nightshield once I have a higher level repair spell.

[z0mbyjr]

Well, yeah... WF at low levels have a bit of a tight spell chain. I'd say take Magic Missile, and once you hit level 4, swap Repair Light for Niacs, and take Repair Moderate... That's really all I do with my WF casters.

[Mumu720]

How the hell are you supposed to kill elite named ogres with shocking grasp? Btw ogres have low reflex. And of course those mostly one shot people so someone want to take em down fast.

They are not hard to take down with shocking grasp at all not even on elite.

[Arctigis]

Well, yeah... WF at low levels have a bit of a tight spell chain. I'd say take Magic Missile, and once you hit level 4, swap Repair Light for Niacs, and take Repair Moderate... That's really all I do with my WF casters.

Why MM? simply because it benefits from force/repair?

I'd recommend spec'ing in acid/electric and taking acid spray (AOE) and SG (single target). MMs output is just
too low. Rounding mobs up in a web then acid spray works wonders.

As we seem to be talking about WF, I'd also recommend getting DR docents to help deal with those hard hitters.
If soloing, you can pick up Melf's at L2 which is low DPS but great DOT, particularly if extended. Hit and run.

[z0mbyjr]

Why MM? simply because it benefits from force/repair?

I'd recommend spec'ing in acid/electric and taking acid spray (AOE) and SG (single target). MMs output is just
too low. Rounding mobs up in a web then acid spray works wonders.

As we seem to be talking about WF, I'd also recommend getting DR docents to help deal with those hard hitters.
If soloing, you can pick up Melf's at L2 which is low DPS but great DOT, particularly if extended. Hit and run.

Well, think of it this way. As you increase your self-healing ability, you increase MM damage... And as you level up, there's more Missiles. While Niacs is great, WF have a -2 penalty to Charisma... which gives you less DC than humans and drow. As a result, you end up hitting even less than humans/drow with niacs... For magic missile, it will almost always hit your target, with no DC involved.

[richieelias]

By the time MM does horrible damage (up from pathetic), you can cast chain missiles which are far superior. Shocking grasp is just a better choice at low level for a WF. Their much greater durability and self healing makes touch-range tactics viable.

[z0mbyjr]

By the time MM does horrible damage (up from pathetic), you can cast chain missiles which are far superior. Shocking grasp is just a better choice at low level for a WF. Their much greater durability and self healing makes touch-range tactics viable.

True, shocking grasp is better... The only thing I like about MM is the fact that it pretty much hits everything... For me, it's just a personal choice.

[Arctigis]

Well, think of it this way. As you increase your self-healing ability, you increase MM damage... And as you level up, there's more Missiles.

That's why I asked the question, the only reason I could think of was this. It's not a good enough reason IMO
as it has no synergy with anything else apart from repair. I generally use wands for this anyway. I almost
entirely solo hence I need my SP for killing. MM has very poor SP efficiency, particularly if meta'ed.

While Niacs is great, WF have a -2 penalty to Charisma... which gives you less DC than humans and drow. As a result, you end up hitting even less than humans/drow with niacs... For magic missile, it will almost always hit your target, with no DC involved.

???

I think most, including myself, have already argued that, on a WF, SG is a superior spell to Niac's because it
has no save. Niac's is still a good secondary single target damage spell on a WF if you choose your targets
carefully. Empowered SG with some AP in acid/electric and some form of potency generally does enough damage
to one shot all but named mobs in the levels where it's your primary damage dealer. Pick up Acid Blast at L6 (to
replace Acid Spray) and you are golden. Exp. retreat is a much better choice IMO than MM.

[z0mbyjr]

That's why I asked the question, the only reason I could think of was this. It's not a good enough reason IMO
as it has no synergy with anything else apart from repair. I generally use wands for this anyway. I almost
entirely solo hence I need my SP for killing. MM has very poor SP efficiency, particularly if meta'ed.



???

I think most, including myself, have already argued that, on a WF, SG is a superior spell to Niac's because it
has no save. Niac's is still a good secondary single target damage spell on a WF if you choose your targets
carefully. Empowered SG with some AP in acid/electric and some form of potency generally does enough damage
to one shot all but named mobs in the levels where it's your primary damage dealer. Pick up Acid Blast at L6 (to
replace Acid Spray) and you are golden. Exp. retreat is a much better choice IMO than MM.

Yeah, that's sorta what I meant. I was kinda saying Niac's isn't the best spell for a WF at low levels, due to the CHA Penalty, and the reflex negates.

[fire-ice]

OP:

I have noticed that in a lot of guides people take maguc missle as their first dmg spell. But why not niacs cold ray? It does more damage. Can someone help me out. Or could someone point me in the direction of a good wf nuker guide?

However, this particular thread is concerning WF, so my stance here is shocking grasp all the way. Any other race (except dwarf), I would say go with niacs.

The OP is NOT about WF sorcs.

Sure it (shocking grasp) has a low range but any sorcerer worth his worth won't care about getting that close to kill because 1. they will be dead and 2. you either have high constitution or the ability to heal yourself.

Say what? Priority 1 for Sorc stats is almost always maximized Cha for spell DC! Con is a secondary stat. Unless the Sorc is a WF, "self-healing" comes from potions because the UMD is too high to use a cure wand.

Haste and Wall of fire.

Those are your two absolute must-have spells.

I agree with WOF. That spell rocks! I find I have to be very careful of aggro with it, though, because smarter foes charge right through it to kill the squishy sorc who cast it.

Does Haste duration increase with level? I replaced the spell with a Lvl-5 clickie, but the cursed thing only last 30 sec! We don't even finish buffing before the spell expires!

=========

Back to the OP, I run a Drow and love Niacs. When facing a foe with high Ref, I used my wand or acid splash on them. Acid splash still does half damage if they make their save, and it really slows down a mob charge.

Web is a great spell, BUT it has 2 saves! First, it has a Ref save to catch them. Then it has a Str save to hold them. If the sorc has high DC, the spell is effective, but one should understand the limitations of a spell that has multiple save routes.

I agree with the MM consensus:
- It's a great spell when the opponent is hard to hit.
- The damage makes it nearly worthless, especially when we have an eternal wand as part of our starting package.
- The eternal MM wand at the end of Catacombs make the P2P quest worth the $5.00 or so it takes to buy the Turbine points to play it.

I'd say beginning Sorcs should try to get through Waterworks however they can. In addition to the great XP & favor, they get an eternal wand of acid. It's a great SP saver for non-boss foes or foes that are already mostly damaged. With 2 or 3 eternal wands, the sorc can sit back and spam the hell out of them with a bunch of low damage, short cooldown shots that do not draw aggro.

[Arctigis]

OP:
The OP is NOT about WF sorcs.

Read it again. It asks for a WF nuker guide. This strongly implies to me that OP wants to play WF.

Say what? Priority 1 for Sorc stats is almost always maximized Cha for spell DC! Con is a secondary stat. Unless the Sorc is a WF, "self-healing" comes from potions because the UMD is too high to use a cure wand.

I think high Cha is a given on a pureclass. The secondary stat is CON. As WF have boosted starting CON and
enhancements to boost CON they generally have higher HP and resilience than other races.

I agree with WOF. That spell rocks! I find I have to be very careful of aggro with it, though, because smarter foes charge right through it to kill the squishy sorc who cast it.

Only if your Sorc. is squishy ;-)

Does Haste duration increase with level? I replaced the spell with a Lvl-5 clickie, but the cursed thing only last 30 sec! We don't even finish buffing before the spell expires!

Yes, you get 6 seconds per lvl. If extended, that's 4 minutes at L20

Back to the OP, I run a Drow and love Niacs. When facing a foe with high Ref, I used my wand or acid splash on them. Acid splash still does half damage if they make their save, and it really slows down a mob charge.

I don't think there is much debate that Niac's is a decent spell on a drow caster, particularly if you have
some conjuration focus. However, it still gets saved against 1 in 20 casts. WF are -2DC vs. Drow - this does
make a noticeable difference. I prefer something I know is going to work every time (SG).

Web is a great spell, BUT it has 2 saves! First, it has a Ref save to catch them. Then it has a Str save to hold them. If the sorc has high DC, the spell is effective, but one should understand the limitations of a spell that has multiple save routes.

Web is great when coupled with a non-fire based AoE such as acid blast or acid spray. You can kite mobs
though it until it sticks then nuke them in one go (you can do this without web but it's easier with).

I'd say beginning Sorcs should try to get through Waterworks however they can. In addition to the great XP & favor, they get an eternal wand of acid. It's a great SP saver for non-boss foes or foes that are already mostly damaged. With 2 or 3 eternal wands, the sorc can sit back and spam the hell out of them with a bunch of low damage, short cooldown shots that do not draw aggro.

Maybe. Personally, I've never needed them. At low levels I whack most stuff with the ember greataxe, bull's and
Master's Touch.

[fire-ice]

Read it again. It asks for a WF nuker guide. This strongly implies to me that OP wants to play WF.

You're right. My bad. I read that 5 times and missed the lower case wf because I was looking for capitalized WF. Doh!