Spare Skill: Tumble v. Diplo v. ???

[Naechtweard]

So, for reasons which are not in themselves defensible, I ended up eating an int tome on my L7 THF warchanter. This has left me with an "extra" skill point going forward. After covering Balance, Concentration, Haggle, Jump, Perform, and UMD to max, I'll have enough points left to either max or nearly max one more skill. I've got the requisite one point in tumble already, but I've got no idea how useful Diplomacy is. Is there anything else or something cross-class I should be thinking about (the build does sport two fighter levels, if that matters at all)?

[ArloOne]

Just start buildin up your diplo. There will be some situations where a little diplo can help ya party/yourself out of a pinch.

[Murderface]

very few quests use diplo in convo and diplo during battle seems a bit silly since the melee u buffed is doin alot of damage and probably can pull agro to himself. i dont see the use in diplo but i may be wrong

[WitcherX]

Leave your tumble what you got maxed when you started or take it upto 7-9
Push up your Diplomacy. One quest which I came across is the Cabal for one or crucible Which Uses your diplomacy skills. May be there are otherquests.

Also you use Diplomacy all the time on Mob. Its just the opposite of Intimidate.
Diplomacy turns the mob away from you whereas Intimidate gets the mobs to you which is most used by tanks.


Also on a sidenote leave your jump at 15-16. You will definately come across a clicky item which gives you a great jump. and there are jump potions/casters available.

[Anderei]

I disagree, to invest skill points just because of the cruicible as reason is silly to me, especially since it can be done without diplo as well. But diplo is nevertheless quite a good skill to get aggro from you, I use it all the time on my rogue, with a bard with not good AC I can imagine it to be useful as well. As Bard however I more tend to deal out an (ir)ressistable dance in the case I get aggro.

Second there is IMHO no such thing as too much jump, clicky or not. jump is a very important skill since this one can get you out of mobs pretty quickly jumping over them, its therefore in many cases more important than tumble.

[WitcherX]

Yes the IR dance comes to help a lot and then you beat them down.

Yes it is always good to have Jump skill.

Diplo Is all time aggro buster.

Also The reason I said not to invest in every level up skill in Jump because I have a 3 times clickie item wich gives me 30+jump(End Total 47) And each clicky lasts 15 minutes.

[Mindspat]

I consistently use Diplomacy on my Sorcerer and Cleric. Tumble is nice to have so the character can roll away from something while shield blocking compared to the jump movement done if the skill is low, but you don't need too much.

Tumble reduces the dmg taking when falling. Since I normally slide down walls while jumping off something I rarely take much dmg if any at all. Try it, go to an exploerer area where there's a cliff and jump off, be sure to keep your characer pressed up against it so it slides down.

Diplomacy can be a LOT of fun - get a bunch of agro, stand in the middle of the party and hit Diplomacy to watch the mobs target someone at random. I always get a laugh when this happens whlie a bunch of mobs are being rounded up in the Vale, someone is usually unprepared to handle the sudden onslaught of agression.

[WitcherX]

Lol

[A_Sheep]

I would say go for listen or cross-class spot in there. Listen at least allows you to target enemies and see the little flashes once in a while. Cross-classing spot is nice because it's easier to get an item for spot (goggles) and when you can see the mob, you can SEE the mob, but you can't pump it as high as you can listen.

[dopey69]

I would say go for listen or cross-class spot in there. Listen at least allows you to target enemies and see the little flashes once in a while. Cross-classing spot is nice because it's easier to get an item for spot (goggles) and when you can see the mob, you can SEE the mob, but you can't pump it as high as you can listen.

LISTEN !LOL i'll pass on the listen thanx ne ways .....lolol

[AylinIsAwesome]

I'll go with A_Sheep and say Spot (but not listen).

Spot's just so much easier to use.


A lot easier to see shadows than red blips once every few seconds.

[XtremDandD]

I've heard that since they put in the aggro change delay, diplomacy has lost a lot of its use. The idea behind that thought is that you use diplomacy, but because of the delay in aggro change, you don't actually lose aggro for another round or even two. In most situations where you really need to use diplo, having to wait that long for aggro to actually move away severely reduces - or even negates - the point.

But, intimidate is still essentially instant. When you land intimidate, you'll immediately get the aggro of all the mobs around you. If you're in a situation where you're taking too much aggro.. then you're much better off having somebody intimidate to help you than you would be using diplo.

Throw in the above mentioned effect, where you have the aggro of a bunch of mobs, hit diplo and suddenly there's random aggro all over your group... not necessarily good team play.

Then again... is tumble that much better? As far as I know, increasing tumble skill only increases the distance you tumble. Mostly, if you're taking aggro and want to get rid of it, then you might tumble back and forth next to the tank, so you get the +AC from the tumble while leaving the mobs that you want to get rid of in range of the tank. That way he can pull the aggro off you. If you have higher tumble in that situation, you may just end up being too far from the tank - and if he needs to move to get at the mobs then his effectiveness will be reduced.

Tumbles really good for moving fast through water though...

X

[AylinIsAwesome]

I've heard that since they put in the aggro change delay, diplomacy has lost a lot of its use. The idea behind that thought is that you use diplomacy, but because of the delay in aggro change, you don't actually lose aggro for another round or even two. In most situations where you really need to use diplo, having to wait that long for aggro to actually move away severely reduces - or even negates - the point.

Reduces the effectiveness, sure, but negates it? No. Even if that is true (which I'm not sure of since I haven't noticed it on my rogue...but then again I don't pay attention to how long it takes) they're still not hitting you after a round or two, which helps to keep you alive.

But, intimidate is still essentially instant. When you land intimidate, you'll immediately get the aggro of all the mobs around you. If you're in a situation where you're taking too much aggro.. then you're much better off having somebody intimidate to help you than you would be using diplo.

Perfect if you're running in a more-or-less static group where you know one of the other party members is a good tank... But don't count on it happening in random PuGs. So if you do have Diplomacy trained, you can use it when there isn't an intimitank in the party, and don't use it when there is.

Throw in the above mentioned effect, where you have the aggro of a bunch of mobs, hit diplo and suddenly there's random aggro all over your group... not necessarily good team play.

The simple solution to that is hit diplomacy when you're standing next to the big, strong, tough Fighter, Barbarian or Paladin. NOT when you're standing next to your Cleric/FvS or Sorcerer/Wizard.

Then again... is tumble that much better? As far as I know, increasing tumble skill only increases the distance you tumble. Mostly, if you're taking aggro and want to get rid of it, then you might tumble back and forth next to the tank, so you get the +AC from the tumble while leaving the mobs that you want to get rid of in range of the tank. That way he can pull the aggro off you. If you have higher tumble in that situation, you may just end up being too far from the tank - and if he needs to move to get at the mobs then his effectiveness will be reduced.

He only gets +4 AC when tumbling if he has Mobility. Which requires Dodge. Two feats which most non-tanks or non-Tempests don't usually take, especially if he's a Warchanter, which is pretty feat-starved anyway.

Also while you're tumbling, the mobs still have aggro on you, and they're trying to chase you, which can make it hard for your other party members to whack the mob and save you.

Tumbles really good for moving fast through water though...

You only need one trained rank in tumble to be able to move through water quickly.

[Freeman]

Personally, I always try to keep a decent score in Tumble. It cuts down on the number of times I have to switch my FF item in to avoid damage. I also like that it is always on, so it isn't another active clicky I have to remember to use.

[Naechtweard]

I am content with my rank in tumble. I like splish-splash tumbling through unswimmable water. I wouldn't mind having a little more buffer for medium-size unfeathered falls, but it isn't a priority.

What I'm curious about at this point is whether diplomacy is effectively an "all-or-nothing" skill. Some additional forum browsing has hinted that its break points are pretty similar to those for intimidate, meaning I'd want to get up to 50(?) or higher to be able to use the skill in combat at endgame (this will still be reachable on this character without much contortion). Is there any use, aside from the few quests that "require" it, to a middling diplomacy score? For those folks who have it on their bards (and thus don't need it just to keep SAs running), do you use it regularly enough to warrant the investment?

[Freeman]

I am content with my rank in tumble. I like splish-splash tumbling through unswimmable water. I wouldn't mind having a little more buffer for medium-size unfeathered falls, but it isn't a priority.

What I'm curious about at this point is whether diplomacy is effectively an "all-or-nothing" skill. Some additional forum browsing has hinted that its break points are pretty similar to those for intimidate, meaning I'd want to get up to 50(?) or higher to be able to use the skill in combat at endgame (this will still be reachable on this character without much contortion). Is there any use, aside from the few quests that "require" it, to a middling diplomacy score? For those folks who have it on their bards (and thus don't need it just to keep SAs running), do you use it regularly enough to warrant the investment?

Those intimidate numbers you see are generally for specific raid bosses, not general mobs. If you aggro a raid boss, chances are you did something very wrong or things are already a general cluster.(Barring the random aggro)