Level 12 feat choice for Rogue

[KylarJ]

Hey all,

Combat Expertise or Improved Crit: Piercing?

The former gives a very valuable +5 to AC on a character that can get that AC (with a friendly barkskin) to levels that make a difference.

The latter adds a small amount of damage (proportionately) to a character that relies mostly on sneak attacks for damage.

Why do most people recommend IC:P over CE? Seems to me that CE is better.

Any input welcome.

Thanks,

KJ

[TheBlueFox]

More often than not, youll be taking Improved Crit. Rapiers are a popular weapon with Rogues, and this lets rapiers crit on a 15.

Combat expertise is good, but only to those who are focusing on getting meaningful AC, and even then, they manage to fit Improved Crit Pierce into their builds, as they are often high dexterity and therefor using Weapon Finessed Rapiers.

[KylarJ]

An extra 15% crit on a rapier.

Sorry, but that doesn't excite me.

typical damage for a level 12 rogue is something like: 1d6 (3.5 avg) (base) + 4 (str) +2 (weapon enhancement) + 1d6 (3.5avg) (flaming or similar) = 13. On top of that, you have 6d6+9 (sneak attack) = 30 (avg).

Only the first number is doubled on a crit.

So your typical attack does 43 points, and a crit does 56 points, 15% of the time. So on these rough (but about right) numbers, IC:P adds approx 13 points 15% of the time, which works out, over time, to be about +2 a hit. And only 10% on a shortsword.

Um. Like...wow.

CE, thanks.

Am I missing something?

KJ

[kamimitsu]

Am I missing something?

KJ

Yes. Banishing, Smiting, Blinding (on your RadII greensteel rapier to come), Puncturing, and a host of other on-crit effects are a huge part of levels 12+. Smiting and Banishing are particularly important as you can destroy the monster with a few swings and forgo DPSing them into nothingness. It is a HUUUGE help in the Vale, where a major chunk of your level 14-18 XP will be. As for Blinding on RadianceII... well, it cannot be stated enough that Rogue + Blind = Squeeeeeeee!

Additionally, your chance of getting a meaningful AC past level 12 is probably minimal unless you really grind for gear and make some well-informed build choices (which you may be doing). However, even in that case, I wouldn't take CE before IC:Pierce on a rogue using Rapiers and SSwords.

[KylarJ]

Thanks for the reply, and fair enough.

Next prob I have is that there's no way I can afford all the weakening/enfeebling; banishing; smiting; wounding/puncturing rapiers of usefulness on my level 12 salary. It appears (on Argonessen at least) that they are strictly the domain of VIP alts bankrolled by hundreds of shroud runs.

Which I understand is another issue altogether.

Oh well.

[kamimitsu]

Thanks for the reply, and fair enough.

Next prob I have is that there's no way I can afford all the weakening/enfeebling; banishing; smiting; wounding/puncturing rapiers of usefulness on my level 12 salary. It appears (on Argonessen at least) that they are strictly the domain of VIP alts bankrolled by hundreds of shroud runs.

Which I understand is another issue altogether.

Oh well.

That's true, but Daggers and Short Swords are also piercing (albeit they crit with less frequency). IC:Pierce will double their range also, from 19-20 to 17-20, and they are considerably cheaper. I got by with them for the longest time until I looted rapier versions myself. Even with rapiers out of the picture, IC:Pierce will double your chance to insta-kill many monsters (and/or apply other effects). Once you get your 20 shrouds or so in, it will be RadianceII rapier all the way and you won't look back.

Happy hunting!

[bcgone]

Hey all,

Combat Expertise or Improved Crit: Piercing?

Any input welcome.

Thanks,

KJ

This depends heavily upon your goals for the build. I carry both CE and Imp Crit Pierce on my rogues. Not sure how much you have toyed with these various feats, but if you pick up a clicky of Divine Power and use it situationally, you will get a large attack boost to offset the CE penalty. When you carry around a holy burst rapier the Imp Crit range of 15-20 or even pick up a keen rapier with some interesting effect, this will benefit you greatly. I would also consider picking up toughness at least once and getting all the enhancements if you are looking to increase survivability, this would add alot of HP to your build.

Tote

[Uhtred_Stark]

I went with improved critical at L12 - the main reason was that I was starting to feel dps challenged in GH. Improved Crit on rapiers and sh sword quickly cleared up that problem. I am facing a similiar choice with L15 upcoming, going CE or gtwf. I think this time I will be going CE because I am finding that extra AC and HPs are going a long way more to my survival and enjoyment of these medium high levels than an extra attack will.

Another consideration, at L12 I wasn't hitting all the time and couldn't really spare the -5. Now at L14 I'm hitting all the time and can afford to take the -5.

[Draccus]

Picking CE over IC:Pierce would be like walking into Best Buy with a thousand dollars and passing the 1080p flat panel TVs to buy a new washer and dryer. Sure, the new washer and dryer would probably be a bit better than your old one but MAN that TV would be fun!

Get IC:Pierce and post again when you have your first Radiance II Rapier. You're welcome.