Practiced Spellcaster unbalancing or just right?

[Impaqt]

So even if I can only take it once, that still raised my Wall of Fire to L16, a Noticeable Improvement, Maxes out Spells like Fireball, Provides extra Missles for my Force missle type spells, Extends my Buffs further, and increses my Spell penn and caster level checks to a Useable level.

Still overpowering.

[aerieon]

I think I might need to give the pnp feat description.

Practiced Spellcaster

Prerequisite: Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Benefit: Your caster level for the chosen spellcasting class increases by +4. This can't increase your caster level beyond your HD. However, even if you can't benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain noncaster-level HD you maybe able to apply the rest of the bonus.
For example, a human 5th-level cleric/3rd-level fighter who selects this feat would increase his cleric caster level from 5th to 8th (since he has 8 HD). If he later gained a fighter level, he would gain the remainder of the bonus and his cleric caster level would become 9th (since he now has 9 HD).
A character with two or more spellcasting classes (such as a bard/sorcerer or a ranger/druid) must choose which class gains the feat's effect.
This does not affect your spells per day or spells known, it only increases your caster level, which would help you penetrate SR and increase the duration and other effects of your spells.
Special: You may select this feat multiple times. Each time you choose it, you must apply it to a different spellcasting class. For instance, a 4th-level cleric/5th-level wizard who had selected this feat twice would cast cleric spells as an 8th-level caster and wizard spells as a 9th-level caster.

So if you were using Impaqt's example

12 WIz/6Fighter(Or Ranger)/2 Monk

The caster level for wizard spell would be 16. So what damaging spells does this build use? Lets say the Bread & Butter of ddo, Wall of Fire, would do base damage of 2d6+16 vs 2d6+12.

Super scary?

There are also a few posts to make it a toggle, and make it cost a ton of mana.

So if would cost a feat and a ton of Sp per spell?

So keep the examples coming, I still haven't read one that I would say is too good for ddo.

OK then let me flip the coin (play devils advocate). Why would you want this feat, you would have to give up something else inorderto get it so it's not like it's for free. Mostlikely whatever your going to list as why you want it is the reasoning behind why they feel it's so overpowered/unbalancing. Also I didn't know/read correctly that it only gave 4 levels so that invalidates my firewall example really other then a little more damage and longer duration.

[noinfo]

OK then let me flip the coin (play devils advocate). Why would you want this feat, you would have to give up something else inorderto get it so it's not like it's for free. Mostlikely whatever your going to list as why you want it is the reasoning behind why they feel it's so overpowered/unbalancing. Also I didn't know/read correctly that it only gave 4 levels so that invalidates my firewall example really other then a little more damage and longer duration.

The real reason is to give caster splashes (not wf) a bit of a break.

Lets compare a 2 level wiz splash to a 2 level monk splash as an example

Best you will get is a 4 min shield spell vs evasion and ac bonus.

Add practiced spell caster and you get 10 min shield spell and a few magic missiles (better have a magi item though)

It will make splashes a little more powerful, that is the purpose of feats to add power, no one takes a feat to make the character weaker.

At the end of the day a level 20 caster is more powerful than a 16 caster with this feat at spells, they have more sp, higher dc, higher level spells and an extra feat to spend.

The only feat i can compare it to is spell pen. on the surface it seems to replace spell pen on a splash and I don't care as if spell pen is important then it their spell pen is still not going to be as good as a pure caster anyway who could have used the feat to purchase real spell pen

[jhorn02]

Actually, I've thought that something like this as a PrE would be more balancing. These are just examples and I haven't considered the balance of the particular

Practiced Spellcaster I would add 1 to the DC and 2 to the caster level

Practiced Spellcaster II would add 2 to the DC and 4 to the caster level

Practiced Spellcaster III would add 3 to the DC and 6 to the caster level

By taking the third level (and using a tremendous number of Action Points), I could create a 10/10 Cleric/Wizard that casts spells with the DC of a 13/13 and the duration and SP of a 16/16.

Again, I'm not advocating the particular numbers here...just giving them as an example of how this could look as an Enhancement versus a Feat.

[Samiusbot]

OK then let me flip the coin (play devils advocate). Why would you want this feat, you would have to give up something else inorderto get it so it's not like it's for free. Mostlikely whatever your going to list as why you want it is the reasoning behind why they feel it's so overpowered/unbalancing. Also I didn't know/read correctly that it only gave 4 levels so that invalidates my firewall example really other then a little more damage and longer duration.

Fast examples:

17clr/3x in heal mode of the shroud, and then goes to solo in the vale. This feat is just as handy for healing as it is for killing.

It might allow a arcane/divine caster to be more viable. Think mystic thurge like.

Strange multi class builds might be allowed to get in a pug. I have be denied many times in to a group because I didn't appear caster enough. A 7wiz/4 lvls of X is no longer some Newb that has no idea of the end game but might be a player building for the endgame.

See Impaqt's above example of the 12/6/2 a good build once he gets to 20 but along the way may look weak to many. The well I bet he has PSC and he can at least buff well may go from a no to a well lets see.

[Samiusbot]

Actually, I've thought that something like this as a PrE would be more balancing. These are just examples and I haven't considered the balance of the particular

Practiced Spellcaster I would add 1 to the DC and 2 to the caster level

Practiced Spellcaster II would add 2 to the DC and 4 to the caster level

Practiced Spellcaster III would add 3 to the DC and 6 to the caster level

By taking the third level (and using a tremendous number of Action Points), I could create a 10/10 Cleric/Wizard that casts spells with the DC of a 13/13 and the duration and SP of a 16/16.

Again, I'm not advocating the particular numbers here...just giving them as an example of how this could look as an Enhancement versus a Feat.

Not a bad idea, the reasons to have a AP cost vs a feat cost is one i did not have. However, would it being a line that they can glue to any casting class and have one for each casting class be better/less work?

Think a 7FvS/8sorc/5bard that would like to have PSC for each class, 3 feats vs, a ton of AP? I think the feats are more important but maybe i am wrong.

[dameron]

So even if I can only take it once, that still raised my Wall of Fire to L16, a Noticeable Improvement, Maxes out Spells like Fireball, Provides extra Missles for my Force missle type spells, Extends my Buffs further, and increses my Spell penn and caster level checks to a Useable level.

Still overpowering.

The extra damage it does it meaningless relative to empower and maximize, which are already in the game and widely used. Any caster that's using practiced spellcaster to max out his fireball isn't primarily a caster and probably doesn't have enough spell points to make spamming offensive spells worthwhile.

Topping off high level casters to help mitigate the penalty for multiclassing and giving gish type characters a bit of extra duration on their buffs isn't going to unbalance anything.

The only reason I can think they would consider this unbalancing would be they don't want tons of character with a single level of wizard casting extended "Shield" spells for 10 minutes a pop. Why they jealously guard that extra +4 shield AC is beyond me, but oh well.

[rimble]

The only reason I can think they would consider this unbalancing would be they don't want tons of character with a single level of wizard casting extended "Shield" spells for 10 minutes a pop. Why they jealously guard that extra +4 shield AC is beyond me, but oh well.

As mentioned, though, it only takes 1 Wizard level to effortlessly use Level 5 and Level 10 Shield wands. Sure, there's a bit of a resource cost to that, but they're not exactly rare.

[Aspenor]

So even if I can only take it once, that still raised my Wall of Fire to L16, a Noticeable Improvement, Maxes out Spells like Fireball, Provides extra Missles for my Force missle type spells, Extends my Buffs further, and increses my Spell penn and caster level checks to a Useable level.

Still overpowering.

It appears my definition of "overpowering" is quite a bit different than yours. You burn a feat to get all these benefits.

Practiced Spellcaster - not overpowered

Earth Spell - overpowered
What is earth spell you say? When standing on stone or earth and using heighten spell, treat the heightened spell as one level higher than it was heightened to. Add the difference between the original spells level and the new level due to heightening to your caster level. This means a Disintegrate heightened from 6th to 9th level is treated as a 10th level spell, and your caster level on a 20th level caster increases to 23.

[valorik]

multiclassing is already rediculously powerful... remove one of the cons and you're talking about serious unbalancing

[maddmatt70]

Easy.

12 WIz/6Fighter(Or Ranger)/2 Monk with 2 PSC Feats.

Full Melee capable with L20 Spell Casting ability.

My current build is rediculosuly effective as it is. Give me those 8 extra caster levels and I wouldnt play any of my other characters ever again.

In pnp they don't stack when you take more then one you apply the feat to another spell casting class. In your example the wizard caster level would be 16 and the second feat would be a wasted feat.

Edit: already been answered.

[maddmatt70]

I agree with you OP it is not overpowering the best example I can think of is just a basic 18 wiz 2 monk or something of that nature but the wiz does not get the capstone which is a pretty significant penalty so there is a penalty to not going to level 20. The other builds are 12 cleric 6 ranger 2 monk or 12 wizard 6 ranger 2 monk that want higher dps on their blade barrior, firewall, and better healing on reconstruct and heal. I do not find the feat unbalancing for those builds either just useful. Most multiclass spellcaster builds could use a little more oompf anyway.

[dameron]

I agree with you OP it is not overpowering the best example I can think of is just a basic 18 wiz 2 monk or something of that nature but the wiz does not get the capstone which is a pretty significant penalty so there is a penalty to not going to level 20. The other builds are 12 cleric 6 ranger 2 monk or 12 wizard 6 ranger 2 monk that want higher dps on their blade barrior, firewall, and better healing on reconstruct and heal. I do not find the feat unbalancing for those builds either just useful. Most multiclass spellcaster builds could use a little more oompf anyway.

Even your 12/6/2 builds are only getting 3d6 extra out of blade barrier, which caps at caster level 15, and 3d10 out of heal and reconstruct, which also cap at 15th.

[Letrii]

It's not overpowered if you actually go by what it is supposed to do. It does NOT affect DC of spell. It ONLY affects your caster level, which influences range, duration, and spell effects.

[Phidius]

Doesn't sound over powered to me.

[taurean430]

On the surface that sounds pretty good for players like me who like the idea of fighter/mages. It doesen't appear to be to unbalancing at all really... more like a step in the right direction.

I am curious though about why they would feel that would be overpowering. Unless there are plans in the works to raise the level limit beyond 20? Granted, I am new to the game... but I still am highly annoyed at the hoops one must go through to build a fighter/mage. And, how bad it looks compared to a PnP version when playing this game.

[Lorien_the_First_One]

It's not overpowered if you actually go by what it is supposed to do. It does NOT affect DC of spell. It ONLY affects your caster level, which influences range, duration, and spell effects.

And spell pen

[GeneralDiomedes]

They already have coded caster level increase with the Arcane Augmentation items. (Robe of Duality, etc.). So we know they can do it.

Making the feat choice sounds easy - simply have Practised Spellcaster feats for every casting class.

I'm not sure what there exact concerns are in terms of balancing. I'm guessing the DEVs have some kind of lingering multiclass phobia related to a barrage of forum rants by pure Paladins from ages ago.

If 4 is too powerful, simply make it 3 or 2. 2 would be similiar in power to the Spell Penetration feat. All would be mitigated by the fact you still can't increase your caster level beyond level cap.

Also, the capstones for arcane casters are quite powerful, so wouldn't adding this be balancing in a GOOD way?

[Krag]

The real reason is to give caster splashes (not wf) a bit of a break.

Lets compare a 2 level wiz splash to a 2 level monk splash as an example

Best you will get is a 4 min shield spell vs evasion and ac bonus.

Add practiced spell caster and you get 10 min shield spell and a few magic missiles (better have a magi item though)

It will make splashes a little more powerful, that is the purpose of feats to add power, no one takes a feat to make the character weaker.

And do not forget, 2 monk levels give you 2 feats and +3 to all saves.
On a wizard you get 1 feat but have to burn 2 feats which leaves you at -3 feats compared to monk splash.

[bobbryan2]

So even if I can only take it once, that still raised my Wall of Fire to L16, a Noticeable Improvement, Maxes out Spells like Fireball, Provides extra Missles for my Force missle type spells, Extends my Buffs further, and increses my Spell penn and caster level checks to a Useable level.

Still overpowering.

Yes, it will make your wall of fire do 4 extra points of damage. It would extend your blade barrier another 12 seconds or so, and will give you +4 spell pen (which you didn't rely on before, you're still -4 to another caster).

Explain overpowered.