Why did Shroud p2 change?

[Captain_Wizbang]

Most "seasoned" players have their way of doing this, and most are correct, as the final outcome is the same!

I had the chance to go on a legion speed run a while back!
Freakin amazing, if you have everybody on the same page!
Run to SW, bring everything, as fast you can!
Smack it all down and separate in less than 5 minutes!

They said it was a slow part 2!

[Sir_Chonas]

As the fellow Khyberian posted, the East is the best.

4 people claim 1 mob a piece.

Elemental (fire or earth). Fire is taken by a monk, ranger, or multiclass fighter. This person and a bard lead the elemental to the southeast room (directly east from buff rock). Earth is taken by fighters, rangers, or paladins to the same place with the bard (if no bard then a cleric, or paladin with moderate healing).

Shavarath creature (orthon, cat, devil) is taken to the farthest northeastern room preferably to the northwest corner of the northwest room. Some heavy dps (barbarian usually) locks it into the corner and preps it unless its that ADD devil.

Lammanian 1 (trog, kobold, or troll) is taken to the farthest northeast room to the southeastern most corner. Doesn't really matter what type of character aside from the troll who changes the entire strategy.

Lammanian 2 (gnoll or orc) is taken to the middleastern room with a big tree and the person with its aggro gets it prepped and circles around the tree to prevent damage (unless the gnoll has lain down some bbs).

2 clerics, 1 in northeastern room, other floats between mideast and northeast. Gnoll, Orthon, and Troll are all pretty slow. Cat and fire are very fast.

If the group has devil and no troll, devil is killed first.

Devil AND troll, devil is prepped, troll is dropped, devil is 2nd.

Has troll, no devil troll is dropped first.


Doing it this way has given my last 20 or so groups a perfect run through. Depending on the caliber of players in your group, all this preparation may be unnecessary. However, if you feel that killing on the first round in a good amount of times with the most possible mp and hp left is for you, then this is the strategy I would recommend.

The most likely to make you fail are fire, devil, orc, and troll or fire, devil, gnoll, and troll (if the gnoll gives the other mobs stoneskin).

[stazer]

I buy my successful shroud runs in the Turbine Store.

[Captain_Wizbang]

I buy my successful shroud runs in the Turbine Store.

Spending all those vip points are we?

[moops]

And speaking of old tactics... was in a (failed) hound last week where everyone continued to run around the outside. I can't say that is the precice reason we failed, but it's the only thing that seemed out of the ordinary to me. Unless maybe we had some first timers who didn't mention they were first timers and didn't want to say so.

As an aside, the leader said he had run 4 failed hounds that day.. so maybe it was him and not the pugers

I have joined more pug hounds that have failed lately--but they all use the collapase in method. In these runs what happened is dogs died--and the group was not properly equipped/organized to go out and fight the mobs that had piled up to get the new stones.

There is no flagging for this raid--All Clerics and FVS and Bards will not be created equal--All tanks will not be wearing even heavy fort. I think in mostly pug runs where I do not know a core of players I am going to return to the kill all of the mobs method so that if the dogs do die and we do need a stone or 2 its not such an insurmountable task for people without the best gear yet.

[Murgatroyd]

And speaking of old tactics... was in a (failed) hound last week where everyone continued to run around the outside.

Our guild uses this tactic all the time. It beats waiting in the middle, and if you have gimpy bard songs then you have people running around to take out the beholders. The nice thing about this method is that if new stones do need to be collected, there's not a lot of trash running around the in the hallways.

[stazer]

Spending all those vip points are we?

I have achieved the perfect hairstyle and color...gotta spend em on something :-)

[Captain_Wizbang]

Spending all those vip points are we?

I buy my successful shroud runs in the Turbine Store.

When you're out of points, we'll SHARE it with you!

[cdemeritt]

And speaking of old tactics... was in a (failed) hound last week where everyone continued to run around the outside. I can't say that is the precice reason we failed, but it's the only thing that seemed out of the ordinary to me. Unless maybe we had some first timers who didn't mention they were first timers and didn't want to say so.

I actually prefer this method of saying out... on my casters/melee. Why:
1: once the dogs are buffed (or I'm on my melee) there is no point in just standing around. I'd rather go kill a few things while we wait.
2: in a good group I will not be needed in the middle.
3: if something goes wrong (and it does sometimes), it is easier to recover if there is less trash to deal with.
4: should the little beholders pop, I'm already in position to deal with them, less likely for them to affect anything.
5: if you are paying attention, it doesn't take long at all to get back to the center to finish things.
6: there usually isn't any help for a bad pug, so my being in the middle will do little good.
7: more shots at planer shards... (ok, really not important to the raid, but...)

As an aside, the leader said he had run 4 failed hounds that day.. so maybe it was him and not the puggers

hmm... I say there is a couple issues here.... not pointing fingers... but I think most can figure this one out without help.

[rest]

I have joined more pug hounds that have failed lately--but they all use the collapase in method. In these runs what happened is dogs died--and the group was not properly equipped/organized to go out and fight the mobs that had piled up to get the new stones.

There is no flagging for this raid--All Clerics and FVS and Bards will not be created equal--All tanks will not be wearing even heavy fort. I think in mostly pug runs where I do not know a core of players I am going to return to the kill all of the mobs method so that if the dogs do die and we do need a stone or 2 its not such an insurmountable task for people without the best gear yet.

I admit I try not to pug this. There was no one on in guild, and I wanted to knock out a quick completion. Oh wells. Most of my toons have what they need from the hound, except for completions so I don't even do it much.

Our guild uses this tactic all the time. It beats waiting in the middle, and if you have gimpy bard songs then you have people running around to take out the beholders. The nice thing about this method is that if new stones do need to be collected, there's not a lot of trash running around the in the hallways.

Don't run with gimpy bards! Nah I understand what you mean. I think that may have been part of that particular run's problem. Like I mentioned before I don't run it often, and when I do it's not usually with a PUG.

I actually prefer this method of saying out... on my casters/melee. Why:
1: once the dogs are buffed (or I'm on my melee) there is no point in just standing around. I'd rather go kill a few things while we wait.
2: in a good group I will not be needed in the middle.
3: if something goes wrong (and it does sometimes), it is easier to recover if there is less trash to deal with.
4: should the little beholders pop, I'm already in position to deal with them, less likely for them to affect anything.
5: if you are paying attention, it doesn't take long at all to get back to the center to finish things.
6: there usually isn't any help for a bad pug, so my being in the middle will do little good.
7: more shots at planer shards... (ok, really not important to the raid, but...)

Well a good hound should last 6 minutes or less. A great hound should be 4 minutes or less. Generally if it takes longer than that it's bad news. I don't mind standing around for 2-4 minutes. Besides sometimes trash comes into the middle

I guess it's different strokes for different folks. When I first started running hound it was the circling method, then we adopted the collapse into the middle method and it seemed to go better. Might have just been more people getting familiar with the quest and having better gear etc rather than one method being better than the others.

Also, my first few toons were gimped and very cleric dependant. The less stuff I had to try to take on the better for me Fortunately for me I've since graduated to more self-sufficient builds so I feel much better about going it without direct clerical supervision.

[adm5893]

I buy my successful shroud runs in the Turbine Store.

Under which area in the Turbine Store are the "Shroud Completion" located? I want to buy mine now.

[Kalari]

Funny Stazer I thought you did all your shrouds drunk..

thats how I roll

[Arlith]

I started running the Shroud right at the tail end of Mod 6 (I recently completed my 60th run on my main about a week back) but I have some questions about the sudden shift in strategy which occurred at the release of Mod 9.

Mass HJeal

[Phidius]

Alot of new people are starting to run Shrouds now and the pary leaders dont know peoples capabilities yet. Its easier to keep an eye on things when they arei n a central location, and takes less time to explain and show people what to do. You only need to rely on the caster to find his way to the crystal, everyone else is at the center and not lost somewhere in the maze.

This - I've been on so many PUG Shrouds where I found myself holding one of the 4 in a holding pattern, trying to deduce what the heck was going on with the wall that I embraced the "all to the south" method with enthusiasm.

It's easier to verbally abuse people when you know what foolishness they are pulling... for me, anyway.

[captain1z]

I think one of the majors reasons for the change in tactics was an increase in player DPS.

Many players running shroud already have at least one greensteel item/weapon and are just getting ingredients for another item for themselves or an alt. So it became easy to just keep them all together, strong arm them, then separate.

In a low DPS group isolating them before the kill, with players that have the ability to take em is a better option than exposing a weaker player/character to something he cant handle. Its just more healing for the cleric and added unneccessary chaos.

[Humperdink]

Here's what happened:

The vet and power players started pulling all to the south to make runs faster. Most did so successfully after running shroud for a year. Then Mod 9 hit with a giant influx of new players. Vets still ran it this way with new players, sometimes without explaining how to do it and expecting these new players to just get it. This tactic involves working together somewhat and most new players just think attack and kill boss because that's what they do in other quests and it wasn't explained to them. So 3 bad guys are pulled to the south while the fourth lingers due to the way they move or their agro patterns. Players start attacking and kill one before the fourth arrives.

How to solve? If you're leading a PUG shroud, take two minutes to type out instructions for a better chance of success.

[Aranticus]

As the fellow Khyberian posted, the East is the best.

4 people claim 1 mob a piece.

Elemental (fire or earth). Fire is taken by a monk, ranger, or multiclass fighter. This person and a bard lead the elemental to the southeast room (directly east from buff rock). Earth is taken by fighters, rangers, or paladins to the same place with the bard (if no bard then a cleric, or paladin with moderate healing).

in my groups, i get the caster to solo the elementals. fire resist, greaves and fire shield stops the fire ele's attack. freedom of movement allows a fire based caster to wreck havoc on the earth. putting melees on earth is a very inefficient tactic

Shavarath creature (orthon, cat, devil) is taken to the farthest northeastern room preferably to the northwest corner of the northwest room. Some heavy dps (barbarian usually) locks it into the corner and preps it unless its that ADD devil.

Lammanian 1 (trog, kobold, or troll) is taken to the farthest northeast room to the southeastern most corner. Doesn't really matter what type of character aside from the troll who changes the entire strategy.

troll causes regen and is usually separated from the rest

Lammanian 2 (gnoll or orc) is taken to the middleastern room with a big tree and the person with its aggro gets it prepped and circles around the tree to prevent damage (unless the gnoll has lain down some bbs).

orc is usually up in NE. this is coz he hits hard, if u put him in E room, the person there will need more attention

2 clerics, 1 in northeastern room, other floats between mideast and northeast. Gnoll, Orthon, and Troll are all pretty slow. Cat and fire are very fast.

If the group has devil and no troll, devil is killed first.

Devil AND troll, devil is prepped, troll is dropped, devil is 2nd.

Has troll, no devil troll is dropped first.

in my groups teleporters are always dropped first, even if it is the devil, i do not even prep it

Doing it this way has given my last 20 or so groups a perfect run through. Depending on the caliber of players in your group, all this preparation may be unnecessary. However, if you feel that killing on the first round in a good amount of times with the most possible mp and hp left is for you, then this is the strategy I would recommend.

The most likely to make you fail are fire, devil, orc, and troll or fire, devil, gnoll, and troll (if the gnoll gives the other mobs stoneskin).

gnoll and troll does not appear together, just like fire and earth, devil and orthon. gnoll is a cleric boss, it does not cast stoneskin. the one that does "stoneskin" is earth. sorry to say but your strategy is not very sound

[Cyr]

Yeah I noticed the same thing myself upon coming back right when mod 9 dropped. The reason is simple. Lazy and bad play with lazy and bad leadership. I have seen this method go wrong far too many times now. It takes longer to set up the pulls otherwise and to be honest actually requires at least 2-3 people in party to pay attention. South Central pulling on the other hand requires nothing from the leader (and often get's nothing even when things go wrong and they need to step up and lead) and almost no thinking to be used.

[RATRACE931]

And speaking of old tactics... was in a (failed) hound last week where everyone continued to run around the outside. I can't say that is the precice reason we failed, but it's the only thing that seemed out of the ordinary to me. Unless maybe we had some first timers who didn't mention they were first timers and didn't want to say so.

As an aside, the leader said he had run 4 failed hounds that day.. so maybe it was him and not the pugers

People continueing to run on the outside in my experiance will never contribute to a failed Hound, infact it can inhebit one. In a failed hound always ask... "Who the BLOODY HELL IS IN THE CENTER!?!" very loudly in voice chat and maybe you'll figure out why you failed... that or get blacklisted for cursing either way.

[RATRACE931]

I started running the Shroud right at the tail end of Mod 6 (I recently completed my 60th run on my main about a week back) but I have some questions about the sudden shift in strategy which occurred at the release of Mod 9.

The "old" strategy (for those who are unfamiliar or have forgotten about it) is to keep the 4 named monster separated from the very beginning of this fight. In most situations, you have 1 DPS and 1 healer fight the Outsider (Devil, Orthon, or Cat) in the "west cubby," put the 2 humanoids (gnoll, troll, orc, kobold, trog) into the southeast corner with 3 blockers and a Wall of Fire, and put the elemental in the Northeast corner with either (a) a self-healing caster or (b) evasion DPS and a healer. Each of the 3 teams preps their monster to ~10% hp, then kills them all within ~5 seconds of each other. The caster who cast Wall of Fire on the southeast corner (also referred to as "The Wall") is usually waiting at the crystal, since they are not required to actually be near the monsters that are cooking.

The "new" strategy is to pull all 4 monsters into the south central area (near the "buffing rock"), and, as a group, DPS all monsters down to 0% health. Once the monsters no longer have a health bar, the people holding aggro on these monsters split apart from the main group and deal a few more additional points of damage to each monster, killing them. A caster waits at the crystal.

Here is my question: Why did the strategy shift from splitting before killing to killing as a group, then splitting?

Out of the last 10 Shrouds I have been in, the "new" strategy has been used and not a single Shroud has had a perfect (meaning no "repull") p2. Something always seems to happen--one person gets the aggro from more than 1 creature, making the syncronized killing virtually impossible, or the clerics run out of mana because the fire elemental is nuking the entire group, the Gnoll plants a blade barrier (which people promptly start running through) while he proceeds to start spamming Dispel magic on the group, or the monsters show up at different times and someone kills a monster prematurely, etc. These problems rarely occur when the monsters are split up beforehand, yet this new way remains the most widely accepted and practiced method of completing p2 of the Shroud. What is the advantage of mass-pulling that I am failing to see?

You know Hydro having been in 2 guild parties where u asked that question I and in light of many other of such "Re-askers or Re-doers" on the frums i may commit you to a mental health clinic to check your memory.


To answer your question though the reason we do it is that it's a little faster and less confussing unless everyone knows exactly what to do and when to do it then... all methods are roughly same damnn time.